The Rifle on Your Back - Page 2

Shawn Thompson · June 29, 2009, 09:31 AM

My 30-06 is my best and most versatile round for hunting game; complimented with a .35 REM for a brush gun. However, if we are talking about an "urban" rifle, I think the weeknesses of the 5.56 are also some of its strengths.

The 5.56 does not have the sheer penetrating power of the .308, or even the 7.62 x 39. But in an urban environment, for defensive purposes, that means a lesser likelyhood of a round penetrating through a primary target and seriously injuring another. Also seems less likely that a round (heaven forbid a stray round) will penetrate walls of neighboring structures ending in the unintentional injury of others.

gun nut · June 29, 2009, 09:32 AM

I like 308. But 30-06 would be an awfully good all purpose round.

wyobohunter · June 29, 2009, 09:38 AM

Since the original poster did not specify purpose, I'll do as others have done and assume it's for survival.

I'd go with my 30-06 (45-70 is choice #2) for exactly the same reasons Tikirocker outlined in a real survival situation. Getting lost/stranded in the Alaska bush is a very real possibility for me so I don't waste my time fantasizing about zombie hordes and acronyms.

That being said, if I do get stranded/lost that means I'm stuck with what I've got... Could be a .243 win (winter yote/wolf hunting), 12 gauge (bird hunting and hiking), 500 S&W mag (fishing and hiking) or one of three big game centerfire rifles: 30-06, 45-70, .338 RUM.

Same as Tikirocker said, exposure is the real danger, it's just on the other end of the temperature scale from TIKI's stompin' grounds. Even 45° F can kill you if you get soaking wet. A good knife and some para-cord will go a long ways toward shelter building. Extra matches and a storm proof lighter for fire. Most importantly, a good set of synthetic clothing + rain gear and having your wits about you...

What the Hell is a SHTF/EOTWAWKI anyway?

Tikirocker · June 29, 2009, 09:48 AM

Wyobo,

SHTF = something hitting the fan ...

TEOTWAWKI = The end of the world as we know it ...

By the way, I'd love to hunt in your part of the world - opposite extremes certainly but something I have always wanted to do.

Tiki.

wyobohunter · June 29, 2009, 12:12 PM

Quote:

By the way, I'd love to hunt in your part of the world -

Likewise. Nice looking Buff in the earlier picture, are those aggressive? I've heard that there is an Aussie Buff that is similar to hunting Cape Buffalo, true?

I've only been to Australia once (W.A. - Perth/Military) but would love to go back and get out hunting.

Quote:

TEOTWAWKI

and I feel fine

pinetree · June 29, 2009, 12:49 PM

I selected 308 as it is a do everything round. I think the perfect survival gun, is an M1A1 (M-14). Of course this is in addition to a 22. I don't have M1A1 or a 308. I have quite a few guns and don't see buying anymore. If I didn't I'd be saving my $ for an M1A1.

I actually have an AR in 5.56 but I also have designated hunting rifles and Milsurps in bigger calibers.

Moloch · June 29, 2009, 02:54 PM

Quote:

I think the perfect survival gun, is an M1A1 (M-14).

I dont know, sure, the M14 would make a good combat rifle but I would NEVER use a semi-auto rifle as a rifle which needs to serve me well for years with little or no cleaning and lubrication/maintenance. ( I am NOT talking about jams)

For a survival gun I would choose the simpliest yet still effective gun I can get, and thats a bolt action rifle in a decent caliber with good iron sights; that means sights I am used to. Not many parts which can break and extremely rugged design. I would use a K98K in either .308 or 8x57.- Maybe a M44 Mosin Nagant. A bayonet could be handy. Both of them worked well in Stalingrad, could it get more SHTF than that?

johnwilliamson062 · June 29, 2009, 03:05 PM

entirely depends on location and whether select fire is an option. Urban or suburban with selectfire I would choose x39. Rural or no select fire I might have to go 308. Pobably x39 if I absolutely had to choose one to work for both.

Citizen Carrier · June 29, 2009, 03:20 PM

Rifles are carried far more than they are shot. For a survival/rural/mountain/desert/jungle situation, I would most definitly take my Ruger M77 Mk II "Frontier" model in .308 with scout scope mounted over the barrel. I could carry that all day and it gives me .308 in a package about the size of an M1 Carbine.

XpatBubba · June 29, 2009, 03:46 PM

7.62
When in the states, I live in rural Florida. We have hogs & snakes, no bears or Chupacabra to worry about. .308 would be overkill & I dont like .223 for much of anything. I would grab the AK and my mag vest and be on my way.

Survival gun: .22/.410 Scout plenty of .22LR and an assortment of .410 slugs & shot

sc928porsche · June 29, 2009, 05:14 PM

Since I reload, I have found that the 300WM is the most versitile for me. I can load it in 110 gr for the little varmits, 130 gr for antelope and coyote. 150 gr for deer, 180 gr for elk, and 220 gr for bear.

Molasses · June 29, 2009, 05:32 PM

Voted for .308, but I'd be as comfortable, maybe even a shade more with .30-06. The split between the two chamberings in my safe is almost even and it comes down to choices between individual designs.

Bigfatts · June 29, 2009, 06:03 PM

My choice would be .30-06 in a Mauser based sporter, blue/walnut. With either a Lyman or Williams reciever sight. I'm proficient with the setup to the extent that I feel confident that I could "survive" just about any feasable real life situation with it. Were it more readily accessable I would have picked the 9.3x57 in the same setup.

stubbicatt · June 29, 2009, 06:17 PM

Voted for 308. There is really nothing it can't do.

The other choices have merit to them. The 22 is a good choice for survival, unless, the unfortunate large meat eating critter stumbles upon you and decides that it wants drumsticks for dinner...

hamr56 · June 29, 2009, 06:18 PM

I looked at the poll as more of a personal defense rifle vs a hunting rifle. With that said I went with the 223, given I can shoot it the fastest with the most accuracy given the guns I own.

Now had it been a hunting thread I would go with a 270 weatherby mag. Hell of a punch and very manageable recoil IMHO. I can kill every critter in NA with this round, I myself have taken antelope to buffalo. Plus it shoots flatter and packs more of a punch than a 06. But I am very biased. I would also give a vote to the 300WM

30-06 @ 300 yds shooting 150gr Barnes X
v2197
e1755
drop 6.8

270 Weatherby Mag @ 300 yds shooting 150 gr Barnes X
v2447
e1994
drop 6.48

amd6547 · June 29, 2009, 06:19 PM

Great! The weekly "what rifle" poll...

Come and take it. · June 29, 2009, 06:23 PM

22 lr is the ultimate survival cartridge.

Moloch · June 29, 2009, 06:56 PM

But I still dont know why.
It does not offer much range at all, it makes a mess in barrels, its not known to be very effective as self defence cartridge, you cannot hunt large game with it, it does not have much penetration at all, its pure lead projectile has lots of problems with bone and so on.

Just because its the most popular cartirdge does not mean its the best for survival.

Why is it so great? Just because its cheap and it does not weigh much?

If I have to defend myself in a whatever-scenario I want to be as far as possible away from the threat to make a clean well aimed shot from 200-300yds. So no danger for me. But If I have a .22 I have to get too close to the target and maybe I need multible shots. Very bad idea.

crghss · June 29, 2009, 07:08 PM

I think the statement

Quote:

Other less popular rounds

says it all.

more forty fives · June 29, 2009, 07:15 PM

I have to go with Jack's .270

Come and take it. · June 29, 2009, 07:48 PM

Quote:

But I still dont know why.
It does not offer much range at all, it makes a mess in barrels, its not known to be very effective as self defence cartridge, you cannot hunt large game with it, it does not have much penetration at all, its pure lead projectile has lots of problems with bone and so on.

Just because its the most popular cartirdge does not mean its the best for survival.

Why is it so great? Just because its cheap and it does not weigh much?

If I have to defend myself in a whatever-scenario I want to be as far as possible away from the threat to make a clean well aimed shot from 200-300yds. So no danger for me. But If I have a .22 I have to get too close to the target and maybe I need multible shots. Very bad idea.

\
You can kill any North American game with a 22 LR.

DanThaMan · June 29, 2009, 08:23 PM

I'm going to stay within the perameters of the question (unlike 70% of the other folks in here) and vote .223. As stated earlier, I want a round which is in heavy production and can be salvaged if needed. You .308 fans might say that the militay also uses .308. To which i point out that they don't manufacture nearly as much, and typically only for snipers or special forces.

Of course, the .308 is better for extremely long range, and has more power... but with my Rock River AR 15 and a decent scope, the .223's lack of power is made up with supreme accuracy and shot placement.

This has yet to be stated, hunting small game is ideal for food because if oyu take down a moose and have less than 10 people to feed, the meat will rot. The .308 will literally destroy any small game you shoot. However, if the hide or bones of big game is needed, the kill can easily be accomplished with a .223 placed right behind the shoulder or in the head. As many veterans will testify, shot placement is faaar more important than power.

Also pertinent is the ammount of ammo you carry, it's weight, and the gun's weight. Any rifle in .308 will typically be heavier than one in .223, and one can carry far more .223 ammo than .308 without compromising thier stamina by carrying tons of .308 in a survival situation.

ComradeBurg · June 29, 2009, 08:55 PM

It depends on what I'm doing. But of the choices listed I'd select the .308. This choice is mostly because it's a very versatile round that can put food on my plate and defend my life if needed.

.223 would be a contender in my book but I don't think it's up to the task of reliably dropping deer, elk, cows, and other such animals that make good food.

smartwhois · June 29, 2009, 09:07 PM

taylorce1, ironic that you are the first person who brought "SHTF/EOTWAWKI" into the thread, yet at the same time complain that's what the thread is about!

It doesn't need to be "SHTF/EOTWAWKI", why did you assume that?

It could be as simple as only wanting one rifle that would be satisfactory for most any need well into the future - something that could be handed down through the family. Or maybe even as simple as only wanting to spend the time and money to buy one rifle.

So far, I've been impressed with the thread and poll.

Why is it the old members that make assumptions and try to start the arguing?

Thermodyne · June 29, 2009, 09:14 PM

I'd start out with my M1, figuring on picking up some modern hardware along the way. But truth be told, I wouldn't be comfortable with just the M1. I'd want my 12 gauge slung to my web gear and it would also be nice to have the Vig around if it was urban.

View Poll Results: The Rifle on My Back:
.223	32	17.68%
7.62x39	23	12.71%
.308	88	48.62%
Other less popular caliber	38	20.99%
Voters: 181. You may not vote on this poll

June 29, 2009, 09:31 AM	#26
Shawn Thompson Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2009 Location: Oklahoma City Posts: 101	My 30-06 is my best and most versatile round for hunting game; complimented with a .35 REM for a brush gun. However, if we are talking about an "urban" rifle, I think the weeknesses of the 5.56 are also some of its strengths. The 5.56 does not have the sheer penetrating power of the .308, or even the 7.62 x 39. But in an urban environment, for defensive purposes, that means a lesser likelyhood of a round penetrating through a primary target and seriously injuring another. Also seems less likely that a round (heaven forbid a stray round) will penetrate walls of neighboring structures ending in the unintentional injury of others. __________________ Qui non proficit deficit

June 29, 2009, 09:32 AM	#27
gun nut Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 2009 Location: midwest Posts: 303	I like 308. But 30-06 would be an awfully good all purpose round. __________________ The only stupid question is the one not asked! (Unknown)

June 29, 2009, 09:38 AM	#28
wyobohunter Senior Member Join Date: August 21, 2008 Location: Back in Wyoming Posts: 1,125	30-06 Since the original poster did not specify purpose, I'll do as others have done and assume it's for survival. I'd go with my 30-06 (45-70 is choice #2) for exactly the same reasons Tikirocker outlined in a real survival situation. Getting lost/stranded in the Alaska bush is a very real possibility for me so I don't waste my time fantasizing about zombie hordes and acronyms. That being said, if I do get stranded/lost that means I'm stuck with what I've got... Could be a .243 win (winter yote/wolf hunting), 12 gauge (bird hunting and hiking), 500 S&W mag (fishing and hiking) or one of three big game centerfire rifles: 30-06, 45-70, .338 RUM. Same as Tikirocker said, exposure is the real danger, it's just on the other end of the temperature scale from TIKI's stompin' grounds. Even 45° F can kill you if you get soaking wet. A good knife and some para-cord will go a long ways toward shelter building. Extra matches and a storm proof lighter for fire. Most importantly, a good set of synthetic clothing + rain gear and having your wits about you... What the Hell is a SHTF/EOTWAWKI anyway? Last edited by wyobohunter; June 29, 2009 at 09:46 AM.

June 29, 2009, 09:48 AM	#29
Tikirocker Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2007 Location: NSW, Australia Posts: 909	Wyobo, SHTF = something hitting the fan ... TEOTWAWKI = The end of the world as we know it ... By the way, I'd love to hunt in your part of the world - opposite extremes certainly but something I have always wanted to do. Tiki. __________________ The Lee Enfield forums - http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewforum.php?f=27 Surplus Rifle Forums - http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/index.php

June 29, 2009, 12:49 PM	#31
pinetree Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2001 Location: Cumming GA Posts: 626	I selected 308 as it is a do everything round. I think the perfect survival gun, is an M1A1 (M-14). Of course this is in addition to a 22. I don't have M1A1 or a 308. I have quite a few guns and don't see buying anymore. If I didn't I'd be saving my $ for an M1A1. I actually have an AR in 5.56 but I also have designated hunting rifles and Milsurps in bigger calibers.

June 29, 2009, 03:05 PM	#33
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	entirely depends on location and whether select fire is an option. Urban or suburban with selectfire I would choose x39. Rural or no select fire I might have to go 308. Pobably x39 if I absolutely had to choose one to work for both.

June 29, 2009, 03:20 PM	#34
Citizen Carrier Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2008 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 671	Rifles are carried far more than they are shot. For a survival/rural/mountain/desert/jungle situation, I would most definitly take my Ruger M77 Mk II "Frontier" model in .308 with scout scope mounted over the barrel. I could carry that all day and it gives me .308 in a package about the size of an M1 Carbine. __________________ Once you've got your sights adjusted to the ammunition you have, step away from the bench. In competition or the field...there are no benches.

June 29, 2009, 03:46 PM	#35
XpatBubba Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2009 Location: Roatan, Honduras Posts: 114	7.62 When in the states, I live in rural Florida. We have hogs & snakes, no bears or Chupacabra to worry about. .308 would be overkill & I dont like .223 for much of anything. I would grab the AK and my mag vest and be on my way. Survival gun: .22/.410 Scout plenty of .22LR and an assortment of .410 slugs & shot

June 29, 2009, 05:14 PM	#36
sc928porsche Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2008 Location: now living in alabama Posts: 2,433	Since I reload, I have found that the 300WM is the most versitile for me. I can load it in 110 gr for the little varmits, 130 gr for antelope and coyote. 150 gr for deer, 180 gr for elk, and 220 gr for bear. __________________ No such thing as a stupid question. What is stupid is not asking it.

June 29, 2009, 05:32 PM	#37
Molasses Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2007 Location: Anoka, MN Posts: 273	Voted for .308, but I'd be as comfortable, maybe even a shade more with .30-06. The split between the two chamberings in my safe is almost even and it comes down to choices between individual designs.

June 29, 2009, 06:03 PM	#38
Bigfatts Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2005 Location: Lutz Posts: 1,528	My choice would be .30-06 in a Mauser based sporter, blue/walnut. With either a Lyman or Williams reciever sight. I'm proficient with the setup to the extent that I feel confident that I could "survive" just about any feasable real life situation with it. Were it more readily accessable I would have picked the 9.3x57 in the same setup.

June 29, 2009, 06:17 PM	#39
stubbicatt Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2007 Posts: 1,707	Voted for 308. There is really nothing it can't do. The other choices have merit to them. The 22 is a good choice for survival, unless, the unfortunate large meat eating critter stumbles upon you and decides that it wants drumsticks for dinner...

June 29, 2009, 06:18 PM	#40
hamr56 Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2008 Posts: 123	I looked at the poll as more of a personal defense rifle vs a hunting rifle. With that said I went with the 223, given I can shoot it the fastest with the most accuracy given the guns I own. Now had it been a hunting thread I would go with a 270 weatherby mag. Hell of a punch and very manageable recoil IMHO. I can kill every critter in NA with this round, I myself have taken antelope to buffalo. Plus it shoots flatter and packs more of a punch than a 06. But I am very biased. I would also give a vote to the 300WM 30-06 @ 300 yds shooting 150gr Barnes X v2197 e1755 drop 6.8 270 Weatherby Mag @ 300 yds shooting 150 gr Barnes X v2447 e1994 drop 6.48 __________________ The only valid censorship of ideas is the right of people not to listen. ~Tommy Smothers

June 29, 2009, 06:19 PM	#41
amd6547 Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2006 Posts: 2,313	Great! The weekly "what rifle" poll... __________________ The past is gone...the future may never happen. Be Here Now.

June 29, 2009, 06:23 PM	#42
Come and take it. Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 999	22 lr is the ultimate survival cartridge.

June 29, 2009, 06:56 PM	#43
Moloch Senior Member Join Date: November 27, 2005 Posts: 1,419	But I still dont know why. It does not offer much range at all, it makes a mess in barrels, its not known to be very effective as self defence cartridge, you cannot hunt large game with it, it does not have much penetration at all, its pure lead projectile has lots of problems with bone and so on. Just because its the most popular cartirdge does not mean its the best for survival. Why is it so great? Just because its cheap and it does not weigh much? If I have to defend myself in a whatever-scenario I want to be as far as possible away from the threat to make a clean well aimed shot from 200-300yds. So no danger for me. But If I have a .22 I have to get too close to the target and maybe I need multible shots. Very bad idea.

June 29, 2009, 07:15 PM	#45
more forty fives Senior Member Join Date: April 1, 2009 Location: central florida Posts: 109	I have to go with Jack's .270

June 29, 2009, 08:23 PM	#47
DanThaMan Junior member Join Date: February 28, 2009 Location: IL Posts: 153	5.56/.223 all the way I'm going to stay within the perameters of the question (unlike 70% of the other folks in here) and vote .223. As stated earlier, I want a round which is in heavy production and can be salvaged if needed. You .308 fans might say that the militay also uses .308. To which i point out that they don't manufacture nearly as much, and typically only for snipers or special forces. Of course, the .308 is better for extremely long range, and has more power... but with my Rock River AR 15 and a decent scope, the .223's lack of power is made up with supreme accuracy and shot placement. This has yet to be stated, hunting small game is ideal for food because if oyu take down a moose and have less than 10 people to feed, the meat will rot. The .308 will literally destroy any small game you shoot. However, if the hide or bones of big game is needed, the kill can easily be accomplished with a .223 placed right behind the shoulder or in the head. As many veterans will testify, shot placement is faaar more important than power. Also pertinent is the ammount of ammo you carry, it's weight, and the gun's weight. Any rifle in .308 will typically be heavier than one in .223, and one can carry far more .223 ammo than .308 without compromising thier stamina by carrying tons of .308 in a survival situation.

June 29, 2009, 08:55 PM	#48
ComradeBurg Member Join Date: February 13, 2009 Location: Minnesota Posts: 60	It depends on what I'm doing. But of the choices listed I'd select the .308. This choice is mostly because it's a very versatile round that can put food on my plate and defend my life if needed. .223 would be a contender in my book but I don't think it's up to the task of reliably dropping deer, elk, cows, and other such animals that make good food.

June 29, 2009, 09:07 PM	#49
smartwhois Junior member Join Date: June 2, 2009 Posts: 52	taylorce1, ironic that you are the first person who brought "SHTF/EOTWAWKI" into the thread, yet at the same time complain that's what the thread is about! It doesn't need to be "SHTF/EOTWAWKI", why did you assume that? It could be as simple as only wanting one rifle that would be satisfactory for most any need well into the future - something that could be handed down through the family. Or maybe even as simple as only wanting to spend the time and money to buy one rifle. So far, I've been impressed with the thread and poll. Why is it the old members that make assumptions and try to start the arguing? Last edited by smartwhois; June 29, 2009 at 09:14 PM.

June 29, 2009, 09:14 PM	#50
Thermodyne Senior Member Join Date: June 2, 2009 Posts: 111	I'd start out with my M1, figuring on picking up some modern hardware along the way. But truth be told, I wouldn't be comfortable with just the M1. I'd want my 12 gauge slung to my web gear and it would also be nice to have the Vig around if it was urban.