Bullet in barrel

[coonhound66]

I had a .451 200 grain bullet get stuck in my barrel, a 1911 45 ria, a first for me. I reload my own, 4.6 grains of red dot using Winchester large pistol primer ,don't know if I should blame the powder, primer, or me. I don't know if I should use the word lucky, but it lodged itself so the next cartridge wouldn't feed all the way in the barrel which stopped it from firing. That probably would have been ugly. Question, Is there any way I could have known if say the bullet traveled half or three quarters down the barrel, the next shell fed and fired. I imagine the gun would have blown apart along with some of my hand. I saw a friends shotgun barrel look like a peeled banana due to a wad stuck in the barrel. Any help or tips would be greatly appreciated

[MtnCreek]

I've had bullets clear the barrel that didn't have enough energy to cycle the action. I've seen a squib in a 1911 with another fired right behind it and that just bulged the barrel. Not clear if the guy racked the slide between the squib and next shot; when people screw up they tend to claim up.

If something doesn't sound right or feel right, stop and investigate. You wont look tactical, but it might save your pistol.

[Jay24bal]

Unfortunately the only way to know is based on your senses. If recoil feels off, or the sound of the report is muffled, or if you notice no hole in the target or dirt splash behind it.

This is why as a reloader I do not use the standard "tap, rack, and bang" method of clearing a malfunction. While I have never experienced a squib and/or forgot to charge a case, all it takes is one time of doing so to run my gun and/or my hand.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Question, Is there any way I could have known if say the bullet traveled half or three quarters down the barrel, the next shell fed and fired.

Oh... you'd have known... how much it would have hurt is the question. Depends on the load, the strength of the gun, etc, etc... but there's no doubt that you would have known.

On the matter of your squib, if the bullet left the case and the action wasn't full of unburned powder, you did not charge that case. No way does the powder burn and leave the bullet in the barrel, least of all right there close enough to jam the next round.

[mehavey]

Is there any way I could have known if say the bullet traveled half
or three quarters down the barrel, the next shell fed and fired ?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that any load that would fully cycle a slide w/ a standard 16# Hardball spring has already shoved the bullet out of the barrel.
(For that matter, in my experience any load that cycles even a 10# wadcutter spring has cleared the barrel....)

I'm with Brian P above, however. Your most likely cause was an empty case and the primer alone blew the bullet into the first inch.

[Nick_C_S]

don't know if I should blame the powder, primer, or me.

Well, it's not likely to be the primer or powder. So that kinda narrows it down. I'm not meaning to dig at ya'; just stating the law of averages. Either way, this would be a good opportunity to check your processes - in detail - to see if there are any critical control points that need improvement.

And yes, it would also be a good idea to take a close look at your primers and powder. Make sure - visually, at least - that everything seems okay there too.

I'm glad you went through the experience without any gun damage or personal injury. Some aren't so fortunate.

[PA-Joe]

What you did not tell us is how many of your reloads functioned ok before the squib? Sounds like you missed the powder on that one round.

[coonhound66]

Thanks everyone, I was in a indoor range wearing ear protection, very loud with other shooters firing, the shell did eject from the gun but didn't feed the next shell, all other shells worked fine let a buddy who is into glocks fire a couple clips and he was impressed with it, right before it happened we were both talking (yelling) the gun up then that happened. I wasn't sure if just the primer was enough to get the bullet going. When I returned home and removed the bullet there was hardly any sign of powder burn on the back of it. I have always shot revolvers so this was something new for me. What I 'm hearing is that is best to investigate before firing the next round. I knew that was lucky the next shell didn't feed cause I would have pulled the trigger. I shoot 45 colt also and had a bad primer, didn't do anything, make a sound anything same box of primers I used for the 45 acp. Not sure how to answer separate posts new the site but have gotten a bunch of good info from you guys

[44 AMP]

Here's something else to think about...

Assuming you did fail to charge that case with powder...are you CERTAIN that you didn't double charge another case?

Are you using a progressive reloader? Sometimes, the powder dump can "stick", dropping not enough in one shell, and too much in another.

A double charge of red dot would fill the case pretty full, and should be easily noticed, UNLESS you are using a progressive press, where it is tougher to visually examine each round in process.

If there is any doubt at all, take the rest of that batch, and pull the bullets. Better safe than sorry.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Originally Posted by coonhound66

Thanks everyone, I was in a indoor range wearing ear protection, very loud with other shooters firing, the shell did eject from the gun but didn't feed the next shell, all other shells worked fine let a buddy who is into glocks fire a couple clips and he was impressed with it, right before it happened we were both talking (yelling) the gun up then that happened. I wasn't sure if just the primer was enough to get the bullet going. When I returned home and removed the bullet there was hardly any sign of powder burn on the back of it. I have always shot revolvers so this was something new for me. What I 'm hearing is that is best to investigate before firing the next round. I knew that was lucky the next shell didn't feed cause I would have pulled the trigger. I shoot 45 colt also and had a bad primer, didn't do anything, make a sound anything same box of primers I used for the 45 acp. Not sure how to answer separate posts new the site but have gotten a bunch of good info from you guys

I don't know how what you're describing could possibly happen. It seems absolutely contradictory.

Loads that will easily get the bullet out the barrel, like 7-8-900fps can fail to eject the case properly while primer only loads absolutely, positively will not work the slide even a little.

I can't imagine how the case could eject and leave the bullet in the barrel.

[g.willikers]

Put a light on your press, so you can clearly see inside the cases at the bullet inserting position.
It can save this from happening.
Just so you can sleep nights, shotgun barrels are much thinner than handgun barrels.

Anytime there's something suspicious going on with your shooting iron, remember to always remove the magazine, before doing anything else.
Even if this were to happen again, at least the next round wouldn't be trying to introduce itself to your clogged barrel.

[Longshot4]

There are lots of things that can go wring do to poor lighting. Good task lights should be a big must. Clear the work area of clutter, Have every thing in its place before you start. Disturbances wile loading should be avoided. When you notice something odd check it out. All the good planing will help. I have found that some powders through more consistent than others. It helps to keep the hopper at least 2/3ds full. I have had similar problems before and it can help to learn how to load more safe.
GOOD LUCK

[243winxb]

are you CERTAIN that you didn't double charge another case?

Large flake powder can bridge in the measure. You get a light charge in one, the next gets 1 1/2 charge. 45acp with bullet lodged in end of barrel, with next round fired into it.

[Rimfire5]

I never would have believed it could happen but I witnessed a primer induced squib that was caused by a leaking primer in my buddy's AR. Apparently the primer pocket was loose in one of his loads and when the 223Winchester small rifle primer fired, some of the pressure must have leaked back through the primer hole.

He knew something was wrong when the discharge sounded strange and there was a lot of powder smoke coming out of his mag well. He checked the barrel and found it plugged with the bullet about 2 inches down the barrel. I looked at the expended casing and noticed a lot of black stain around the primer hole although the primer was still in the hole.

I would have thought that there would still have been enough pressure to move the bullet all the way down the barrel but the leakage through the primer hole must have been too great to sustain the pressure behind the bullet after the primer started leaking. The amount of smoke that came out around the magazine was incredible indicating that the round was loaded with a full charge of powder.

[kilimanjaro]

You are not paying attention during the reloading work. Remove distractions from your reloading time, if you have any, such as a TV set, and allow the length of time it needs to reload safely.

You have to be totally anal during the reloading process. Look down into each case before indexing to the seating die, to see if there is a powder charge in it. Double charges will be obvious. Get the steps down and do it by the numbers, it's important.

About every 20 rounds, stop the work, pull one off the powder station, dump the powder on your scale, check the weight. This is in addition to the visual check of each filled case as you index.

When done, take all your loaded rounds, insert bullet down in your cartridge holder boxes and check the primer seating. Then turn 'em over in the boxes and check the length for any obvious issues more than a few thousandths.

Final step, take a loaded round, that you know to be perfectly charged, and weigh it. Write the number down. Now take the rest of your reloads and weigh them, one by one. Do not weigh them two at a time, you will not catch a double load by doing that. Any round more than a few grains above or below your perfect weight needs to be taken apart and reloaded. You'll learn what the range of weights can be pretty quickly, bullets are right on, brass is often 2-3 grains different, primers are within a few hundredths of a grain. The other variable is the powder charge, that's what you look for. You can remove the brass weight variable with a bit more work if you are not comfortable with the range of variability.

After you clean your brass, weigh the cases, and separate into groups by weight. When you reload, reload by grouping.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Originally Posted by rimfire5

I never would have believed it could happen but I witnessed a primer induced squib that was caused by a leaking primer in my buddy's AR....

I do not believe that is an accurate interpretation of the event. I don't doubt what you saw, but I doubt the conclusion.

No way does a full charge of powder burn and force all it's pressure past a loose primer.

You can fire a round using brass with primer pockets so loose that the primer will fall out and can be seated by hand, the round still acts normally except for possible gas cutting on the bolt face and some soot around the primer. The small amount of gas leaking past the primer is irrelevant to the tremendous energy released in a very short time by a charge of powder.

[g.willikers]

^^^^^
Yessir.
I've inadvertently overused brass until the primers actually fell out of the cases when ejected.
And the bullets always exited the barrel.

[chiefr]

44 AMP
Here's something else to think about...

Assuming you did fail to charge that case with powder...are you CERTAIN that you didn't double charge another case?

Are you using a progressive reloader? Sometimes, the powder dump can "stick", dropping not enough in one shell, and too much in another.

A double charge of red dot would fill the case pretty full, and should be easily noticed, UNLESS you are using a progressive press, where it is tougher to visually examine each round in process.

If there is any doubt at all, take the rest of that batch, and pull the bullets. Better safe than sorry.

Absolutely agree with AMP. Best answer so far.

[Rimfire5]

Brian,

I guess both of us that witnessed the event and the gunsmith that extracted the bullet from well down the barrel all misinterpreted the event. I tried to get the bullet out of the barrel at the range with a cleaning rod and it would not budge with moderate effort so my buddy took his Colt HBAR to a local gunsmith.

The gunsmith, one of the most and respected in our area, looked at the fired case and the primer and concluded that the primer leaked "more than just a little". He then cautioned my buddy to pay more attention when he seats primers and don't load a case when the primer slips too easily into the primer pocket. Good advice to follow even if you have never had a primer leak.

I'm wondering what you think the cause could have been. Considerable smoke poured from the mag well after the gun fired. I had never seen anything like it before, so I was stumped. I have had rounds that had no powder fire only the primer but there was no smoke visible and the bullet never left the cartridge or got to the barrel.

There obviously was plenty of powder in this particular round to create that much smoke to exit through the mag well and there was enough pressure to move the 70 grain bullet well down the barrel. The rounds shot prior to the 'event' grouped just over 1.25 inch at 100 yards with 22.9 grains of IMR 4895 with a muzzle velocity around 2770 fps. The rounds were not lightly loaded and each powder load was measured with a RCBS Charge Master 1500. The loaded rounds were crimped.
The fired case was not split and the primer and case and primer showed obvious blackening around the primer. The action didn't cycle the spent case. I can't think of anything that would have caused that much smoke out of the mag well. Do you think it was a problem with the gas valve. Could that caused the smoke to exit the mag well with a mag still seated in the well.

Thankfully, my buddy was attentive and didn't fire another round into the blocked barrel before he checked out the rifle. The rifle was undamaged and returned to action within two weeks and fired the remainder of that load and several hotter loads without a repeat of the 'event' with equivalent or slightly better accuracy.

[mehavey]

RIMFIRE:

I have seen what you describe (bullet lodged/smokey action/no explosive pressure release) when the primer failed to fully ignite the powder charge, and instead sort of produced what I can only describe as a "fused-ball" of smoking crap left just behind the bullet. I was amazed.

But... I cannot envision a leaking primer/flashole having sufficient portal opening to cause what you descibe without an incredible (and very scary) backwash of gas blowing out into the shooters face. Even separated casehead events get your attention in that manner -- though still shove the bullet out of the barrel.

[Brian Pfleuger]

I don't know but it sounds like a classic under charged round.

I use an RCBS Chargemaster and I absolutely love it but mistakes are still possible. For instance, if it gets too much vibration while dispensing, it will simply stop. If you don't notice the tiny arrow pointing to "under", you just dump the charge in the case and go on.

Did the bullet make it to the gas block? If so, I would expect a lot of smoke to vent into the bolt/mag area. If not, or perhaps both could happen, a lot of smoke could vent past the primer and case, since there certainly would not be enough pressure to seal the case in the chamber.

[44 AMP]

Sometimes, things just happen that defy the usual explanations.

(although it has noting to do with the AR, I mention the following just to show how some weird things can happen)

Back in the early 70s, as a teenager, a friend of mine, just learning to reload created what we came to call a "dragon load" in a .22LR/20gr savage combo gun.

On firing, there was a very mild "bloop" sound, and we could HEAR the shot hitting the tall grass a few yards in front of us. THEN an actual flame (not a flash, but a flame, like from a lighter) came out of the muzzle, lasting 2-3 seconds.

I never could figure out how that happened, but happen it did, so, these days, I never say "never", about any weird thing. Not likely, and exceedingly rare, I say, but I try never to say "never", again...

[g.willikers]

Are you using a progressive reloader? Sometimes, the powder dump can "stick", dropping not enough in one shell, and too much in another.

Every powder measure I've owned could, indeed, drop less than the measured amount of powder into the case, but not more than the amount the measure was set for.
Whether it was a slider type or rotary, the cavity that accepts the powder from the hopper can only contain the amount it was adjusted for.
Any more would have to stay above in the hopper, as the full cavity moved away from the hopper, as far as I can figure.
Unless the case stayed in the same position and operated the powder measure twice.
The only so called progressive that can do that is the Dillon 450/550, or a turret type that has to be operated by hand.
A true progressive, by it's very nature, can't do that, as every case moves right along to the next station.
Yes??

[Mike / Tx]

Bottom line is when ever something isn't like it should be, stop and remove all doubt before proceeding.

I have had some that went boom, but not bang like they should have. There is usually no doubt it wasn't like the one before it. I clear the mag, remove the slide and investigate before I even try to chamber another round.

It only takes a couple of minutes to pull them down anyway. It takes months to heal up or finance another one.

[higgite]

Every powder measure I've owned could, indeed, drop less than the measured amount of powder into the case, but not more than the amount the measure was set for.
Whether it was a slider type or rotary, the cavity that accepts the powder from the hopper can only contain the amount it was adjusted for.
Any more would have to stay above in the hopper, as the full cavity moved away from the hopper, as far as I can figure.
Unless the case stayed in the same position and operated the powder measure twice.

I haven't experienced it myself (knock on wood), but I understand that some powders can bridge in the drop tube, leaving the powder measure cavity empty to accept another full load on the next cycle. Then when the next load drops on top of the powder that's stuck in the drop tube, both charges fall through, resulting in one empty or undercharged case followed by an overcharged case. Is that not possible? Did I misunderstand how it might happen?