Got some!!! Now what? (.430 300gr)

[Pond, James Pond]

Having considered getting 50 330gr cast bullets from Midway of the about €55 delivered, it seems my local shop had received a stack of 300gr bullets instead of the 200gr they and I ordered, so instead of 500 x .38 and 1000 x .429, I left there with 500 x .38 and a mere 100 300gr'ers for the same prices as the 50 cast from Midway.
Shame about the 200gr bullets, but a huge saving on the big boys.

They may not be 330gr, but they will do nicely.

Now I just need a start load.
I was thinking 18.5gr: N110. Plated .430gr 300gr bullets. Starline brass. Standard LP primers. 1/2 turn crimp min. Ruger Redhawk 4.2"

Recommendations?

[savagecornmuffin]

I think you'll be as happy with the 300s as you would the 330s.

I found I like those 300s running just below 1000fps out of my 4.625" Blackhawk and the same load in my 7.5" Redhawk (runs about 100 fps faster in the long barrel). I just can't stand running them up to 1300fps for fun shooting. Its a handful. I have hunted with the "full tilt" 300gr load and it is impressive. The slower load were very effective as well. I save the high velocity loads I have for hunting, but I likely won't load anymore like that. Like I said, it's a handful.

Load suggestions? I don't load with and VV powders, so can't help you there. I'm using HP-38 and having no problems. I powder the High Velocity loads with max quantities of H110/296. Both are accurate at the bench. 2 inch groups at 50 yds. are the average and single ragged holes when I'm really on my game.

If you work up a hot rod load for those 300s and someone ask if you have a good load for Polar bear, you can confidently say "Yes. Yes I do."

[Pond, James Pond]

I think 1000-1100fps would be plenty: the 275's at 1150 were a wake up.

Perhaps just a few at higher velocities just to say "I did!", but then I don't imagine I will shoot all 100 of them any time soon.

Who knows? I may end up enjoying loosing all feeling in my fingers!!

[Pond, James Pond]

I'm itching to have a crack at these 300gr'ers.

Anyone want to give me some educated support for my chosen start charge of 18.5gr N110?

Then 0.2gr increments until a velocity of 1100fps or so.

[WESHOOT2]

I might start my experiments with 19.0g N110 under a good 300g cast.
I note N110 is extremely progressive in nature.

I used powders like Power Pistol and HS6 and N350 for medium-performance 300g cast......and I bent my Redhawk with a 300g LFP and Universal

[44ruger]

Weshoot2... I am not sure I know what you mean by saying n110 is extremely
progressive. You left the same comment on one of my posts. Would you please explain this to me? Thanks.

[AlaskaMike]

What kind of bullet profile are the 300 grainers? Some profiles have more bullet mass outside the case than others, so that has an impact on pressures.

[Pond, James Pond]

I might start my experiments with 19.0g N110 under a good 300g cast.

The H&Ns are basically plated lead rather than a cast alloy: pretty soft. My 275gr cast use 19.8 to get about 1150fps. I'd be happy with similar velocity from these 300s.
It is more than enough to wake me up with the hard casts!!

I note N110 is extremely progressive in nature.

I understand it as meaning that increases in powder charge lead to a linear increase in pressure, reducing the chance of sudden leaps in pressure, but rather a more predictable rise.

But I could be wrong....

What kind of bullet profile are the 300 grainers?

They are sold as a Truncated Cone. This picture is from the H&N website and sort of generic, but all their TCs look proportionally the same.



They have quite a pronounced concave depression at the base however, pushing some of the mass forward in the bullet, IYKWIM.

I am actually not sure of the OAL to use.... the standard 40.7mm as with my other H&N bullets (200gr), or 41.85mm as with my Cast Performance 275grs seated to their groove. The 300s are looooong!

I bent my Redhawk with a 300g LFP and Universal

Don't say that!!

[WESHOOT2]

I understand it as meaning that increases in powder charge lead to a linear increase in pressure, reducing the chance of sudden leaps in pressure, but rather a more predictable rise.

But I could be wrong....

You are right!



The Bent Story:

I was merrily loading away, making a 6.0g Universal / 300g LTC / CCI350 load for use in my 5.5" Redhawk to be shot in USPSA competition.
My oldest daughter came into the shop while I was loading, and we conversed, and I ignored the powder-check alarm.
Best we can figure was 12.0g Universal under that 300g bullet.

Luckily, my friend had his brass mallet with him, and we pounded the cylinder open, pounded out that stuck headstamp-obliterated case, bagged it and sent it to Ruger.
Ruger service was great.
And I allow zero distractions when loading now, stopping completely if entertaining.


Ruger replaced the bolt stop.

[Pond, James Pond]

And I allow zero distractions when loading now, stopping completely if entertaining.

Luckily my wife leave me be when I'm reloading as I am, it seems, "no fun to talk to". Problem avoided!!

What about OAL, then?
No groove and being soft lead, I can crimp at any point. You'll already know that the RH cylinder is 44.75mm long. I also know that 19.8grs of N110 under a fairly long 275gr cast bullet, seated to the groove at 41.85mm leaves a little space as I can hear powder shaking inside.

However, the 300gr bullets are pretty long and even with their concave base, I fear 19gr seated to the usual 40.7mm would mean a compressed load.

What do you think?

I essentially have 4mm of flexibility in seating depth between the standard OAL and the clylinder's length...

[WESHOOT2]

I think I would try it; you?

[Pond, James Pond]

I think I would try it; you?

Which one do you think of as "it"?
40.7, 41.85 or the full 44.75 ?!

Personally I am erring towards the longer 41.85mm OAL.

I have loaded up cases with 18.8, 19, 19.2, 19.4 and 19.6 gr. When I look at those cases, I can't imagine fitting the 300gr bullets in there without going for the longer OAL...

[Pond, James Pond]

Well, I had started seating the first 300gr bullet to 41.85mm and I could almost feel the powder getting crushed!!
So I stopped short and tried to do visual comparison of the part-seated bullet and where the base of the bullet would then be in the case.

Even my starting load of 18.8gr looked as though it might be compressed by that stage or very nearly. And that bullet was not even quite seated!

So, I did a quick check online and found the 300gr bullet .429 cal Handload.com page and found a number of rounds at over 1.7". They all seemed to be a "LTC" bullet and I think this is a lead projectile and so closest to my plated truncated cone.

XTPs were all about 1.6", ie closer to the standard 40.70mm I have used previously for small bullets (200-240gr).

So, in the end I opted for a whopping 1.72", or 43.65mm. With that I could still hear powder rattle on my starting loads, but not so much when I got to 19.6gr which is where I have stopped.
That OAL is still over a mm shorter than my RH chambers but makes the need for a stout crimp all the more important if I want to avoid a stuck cylinder by the last round!!

I plan to use a 1/2 turn crimp on the Lee FCD, with the case cutting the groove itself (these are smoothed sided bullets)

So, if my crimp is insufficient or you feel my OAL too great or whatever, please let me know as I can always seat a little further, but once I've crimped I don't want to pull the lot just to resize and charge and all that nonsense.

[WESHOOT2]

You seem to have things utterly under control; your reasoning, process, dimensions, loading.

I await your (successful) results.

[Pond, James Pond]

I await your (successful) results.

I expect those to be unnecessarily big holes in paper, absurdly loud bangs and an acute awareness of my palm-heel...

[Pond, James Pond]

Well, I shot off 3 cartidges of 18.8, 19, 19.2, 19.4 and 19.6grs. One lot with CCI primers, and the other with my more usual Fiocchis.

Of the lot, I was happiest with 19gr: CCI and Fiocchi velocities were about 1070 and 1050fps, respectively, with the Fiocchi loads giving far more consistent velocities. The max velocities were, again respectively, 1134 and 1128 for the 19.6gr loads.

Recoil, TBH, was no worse than my 1150fps Hardcast 275gr bullets, so could be a cheaper practice load: 300gr loads approx € 0.35 a shot, hard cast approx €1.10 a pop!!!!

[WESHOOT2]

You, Sir, have been a true pleasure to observe as you grow.
Your reasoning and considerations have convinced me that you will be someone I and others can learn from.

You are safe.

[WESHOOT2]

So you liked the 19.0g load best

[Pond, James Pond]

You are safe.

Well, thank you sir!!

I shall work jolly hard to ensure you have no reason to take that back!!
I tell you, this reloading business really gets under your skin!!

It's great!

So you liked the 19.0g load best

's-alright, I s'ppose....

You know I am sure that someone recommended that exact load a while back.

Can't for the life of me remember who...

[John C]

Instead of paying so much for hard cast, I recommend you get a Lee mold and start casting your own. Over here, cast bullets are very reasonable, and shipping is a flat rate. When you're paying $1.50 for EACH cast bullet, it's time to break out the casting gear. It will pay for itself very quickly.

H&N bullets are excellent. I wish they were more available here. When they were, they were a cheap alternative to jacketed bullets for target competition. Typically, plated bullets are held to much looser tolerance than jacketed bullets.

-John

[Pond, James Pond]

Instead of paying so much for hard cast, I recommend you get a Lee mold and start casting your own. Over here, cast bullets are very reasonable, and shipping is a flat rate. When you're paying $1.50 for EACH cast bullet, it's time to break out the casting gear. It will pay for itself very quickly.

I'd like to cast, but have no idea where to get my own supplies of lead. I know many members post this source of that, but they don't live where I do!!

Also, the casts were a one-off. I bought a box of quality 275gr hard casts to develop a woods round. Something that would be adequate against any of the animals that I might find in a bad mood in the forest. I got that load and then loaded the rest, so I know have about 80 rounds or so. I was going to just shoot them occasionally to remind myself of what letting those off feels like. However, I can now make a practice round out of the 300s.

[Mike / Tx]

I'd like to cast, but have no idea where to get my own supplies of lead. I know many members post this source of that, but they don't live where I do!!

Well I know it is only a small start, but if you can recover most of what your shooting, well that is free lead. It can very easily be reused as your very own cast bullets.

As for things needed, well they can range from the very minimum to however wild you feel like getting. The basics are a mold, a steel pot to smelt and or dip and pour from, a ladle of some sort, and a heat source. The latter can be anything form an open fire, to a camp stove. Most use the propane type fish or turkey cookers for large things and the smaller camp stoves for small batches of around 10-20 pounds worth. For lube, well if you can find a source of Alox your in business, if not there is a whole long list of home made ones over on Castboolits.

If you cold round up some of those things your in business on the cheap.

[44 AMP]

No groove and being soft lead, I can crimp at any point.

I was wondering about this....

How is it working out as to bullets jumping crimp in recoil?

Also, you say they are soft, are you getting any leading up at 1100fps+?

I don't shoot the 300+gr bullets, so I can't help with any specific advice, sorry. 240/250gr has always done everything I wanted or needed, and I don't have a Redhawk...

[Pond, James Pond]

I was wondering about this....

How is it working out as to bullets jumping crimp in recoil?

Also, you say they are soft, are you getting any leading up at 1100fps+?

The company is called H&N and they seem to be well thought of. Indeed their bullets look good and look uniform. They have a healthy plated of copper, but also have a clear polymer coating, almost like a wax. These bullets are marketed as "HS" or High Speed. I think they are designed for anything up to about 1100fps. The website says they are good for speeds in excess of 320m/s (1050 and over).

Ah the crimp: my little pet demon.
How it toys with me...

A half turn crimp is pronounced, yet the same coating that allows for higher speeds, I am sure, does not help crimp get the beast grip.

As it happens I had a look at the last bullet from a cylinder's worth and I could see the crimp groove outside the case mouth: about half a mm, but it means that once that cylinder is full, I should shoot the lot or start to separate those that have been in the gun already and those that are "hot off from the press", or I could end up locking the cylinder...

I suppose I could go heavier on the crimp, but I only have to look at my post on the "screw-ups" thread that is going to remember why that might not be a good idea!!

[44 AMP]

Thanks for the info, James. I have never seen any of those bullets in my area.

Crimp is a demon, and in revolvers I only used bullets with a cannelure, or crimp groove, in calibers that need a crimp. I've buckled a number of cases over the years with too much, or crimp in the wrong place, so I stick with what I know I can work with. In your situation, you're a lot more limited on what you can get, and I really understand you wanting to make things work with what you have.

What you saw is indeed crimp jump, but you seem right on the edge of enough, and as you know, its easy to go too much. Maybe just a tiny (1/8 or less?) turn on the crimp die, and see if you get jump on rnd # 6 after shooting 5. If you don't get any jump (and nothing else goes wrong) you're golden.

IF you do get something you can see, you got the right idea, just shoot that one first, next time!
Good Luck!