Looking for air rifle recommendations... - Page 2

Mobuck · August 5, 2018, 08:36 PM

"Now how do he know dat???"

I'll be totally honest. I allow cats to live here only because if I didn't, the mice would carry me off. With cats on the farm, there's a propensity for overpopulation so once or twice per year there's a "population reduction" period. This may be offensive to some but it's the way it is out here.

seanc · August 8, 2018, 02:19 PM

If your pest control issue is with chipmunks, you should get a small animal trap. I catch at least 1 a day and dispatch them with whatever pellet pistol/rifle is handy. They've got a metabolism like a hummingbird and are constantly on the move. Hitting them with a pellet gun is near impossible. Rabbit and squirrel hunting with a .22 pellet rifle shouldn't be a problem out to 35 yards due to accuracy and lethality for well placed shots.

For pellet rifles, do yourself a favor and increase your budget to $500. You can get the Umarex Gauntlet regulated PCP for $300 and a hand pump @ $200. Other manufacturers have also come out with similarly priced PCP rifles. I have a springer Gamo Whisper .22 that I converted to a nitro piston. It's plenty powerful (kills rabbits and squirrels easily, out to 35 yards), but being it's still a springer design, my best groups at 50 yards are about 2" offhand with domed pellets. Considering what B.L.E. posted about pellets BC, I now don't feel so bad about that.

B.L.E. · August 11, 2018, 04:22 PM

The main thing to remember about air rifles is that good ones cost money. You get what you pay for. Air rifles are just as complicated, perhaps even more so than firearms, the barrel has to bored just as precisely, quality wood is just as expensive for an air rifle as for a firearm, you get the point. Actually, a single shot .22 could be built BB gun cheap, in fact the 9mm Sten sub machine gun of WWII was BB gun cheap, costing about $10 to manufacture, which is equal to $130 in today's currency.

doofus47 · August 11, 2018, 10:56 PM

My .22 BSA meteor killed chipmunks dead! But it would only do about 600 fps so I doubt it's a 50 yard target rifle. At 20-25 yards though: dead rodent.

It was fun though.

B.L.E. · August 11, 2018, 11:27 PM

Springers can achieve higher velocities than PCP as a rule, mostly because air can only escape from a pressurized vessel at the speed of sound. If you double the pressure, you also double the density of the air and even though you have twice as much potential energy in the compressed air, that air still has to accelerate itself along with the payload.
The amount of velocity that can be achieved with the potential energy of compressed air pretty much defines the speed of sound.
If you want a PCP to shoot supersonic, the easiest way to do it is to charge it with helium instead of air.

With a springer, the rapid compression of the air right as you pull the trigger dramatically raises the temperature of the air and that means the air is less dense and has a higher speed of sound. At 1000 degrees F, the speed of sound is around 1800 fps.

Mobuck · August 12, 2018, 07:16 AM

While working for a resort in Colorado, I killed dozens of picket pin gophers with a Crossman pump up smoothbore .177. Ranges were short(under 20 yards) but head shots were DRT. I actually preferred body hits as those critters crawled back down the holes before dying and didn't require removal.

B.L.E. · August 12, 2018, 02:02 PM

I was reading the online owner's manual for a Benjamin Marauder PCP air rifle and apparently, with those super light alloy lead free pellets, this gun actually can break the sound barrier even though theoretically, the speed of sound is the upper bound for muzzle velocity in a pneumatic air gun.
So what's going on? My theory is that between the pellet and the gas valve is a column of atmospheric pressure air. When the gas valve opens, this column of air suddenly gets compressed by the air behind it and heats up to a high temperature which lowers its density enough to expand at a rate higher than the cool air speed of sound.

I don't take supersonic velocities that seriously because of two reasons, the first is that supersonic pellets are deflected more by crosswinds than subsonic pellets are, especially when you consider that making pellets out of light metal instead of lead takes the ballistic coefficient from bad to awful. You start getting the ballistics of shotgun pellets. The heavier slower pellets will actually have more residual velocity and energy downrange.

The second reason is that it makes air rifles loud, negating one of the advantages of air rifles. If you are going to shoot something that cracks like a .22, you might as well shoot a .22. Or consider just getting a bolt action .22 and shooting CCI Quiet .22 ammo out of it. This ammo is actually quieter than a lot of air rifles and with a 40 grain bullet going 710 fps, crosswinds will not blow it all over the place at 50 yards.

FITASC · August 12, 2018, 02:26 PM

Excpet, some folks might be breaking the law firing an actual "firearm" inside certain limits, whereas an air rifle might be perfectly legal (This was the scenario where I previously lived)

B.L.E. · August 12, 2018, 04:12 PM

Yes, check your local laws, where I live, it's just as illegal to shoot an airgun in city limits as it is a firearm, though it's a lot easier to get away with it when it's an airgun.

Another factor to consider is when you are shooting squirrels out of trees, a 7.5 grain .177 caliber pellet is not going to go a mile and hit someone if you miss the squirrel. The very low ballistic coefficient means a rapid velocity decay and a very limited range, like a shotgun. Something to consider when your neighbors are only a half mile away.
That's the real reason to consider using those 5.4 grain PBA pellets when hunting treetop game.

Waspinator · August 20, 2018, 05:22 PM

A bit late to the discussion, but I would like to add a couple of options.

If you are looking for a nice, accurate air rifle without needing to fill a tank, look into Hatsan's Torpedo under-lever gas piston models. The barrel is fixed, so the accuracy tends to be more consistent over the break barrel options. They are single shot pellet rifles that load like a bolt action. They come in .22 or .25 calibers. fps ranges anywhere from 750 to 1,000 depending on the model or caliber. Price ranges from $270 - $330 depending on model.

Check them out, if you are so inclined.

https://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Hatsa...ut_Vortex/3619

https://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Hatsa...Air_Rifle/3648

https://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Hatsa...lnut/3645#7027

stephen426 · August 20, 2018, 06:38 PM

For furry creatures, I'd say go with .22 to .25 at a minimum. The Benjamin Nitro Piston is a great gun. It uses a nitrogen piston rather than a spring so you don't get spring fatigue or the vibration that spring piston guns get. Right now it is on sale so only $99.99 with a scope! https://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Benja...ifle/2603#5161

Consider paying for the $20 for 20 service where they mount and zero your scope, test to make sure everything is working properly, test fire 20 shots and chrono it. You'll have to buy a case for it which runs you $40 since they toss your box. I think it is a way for them to nail you for a case. If you feel comfortable mounting and zeroing your scope, you can probably skip the service.

I have a Benjamin Nitro piston in .22 and .25. They are smooth shooting and VERY quiet! I ended up getting the Benjamin Marauder in .25 after the other two rifles because I needed the extra power for sniping iguanas. They are over-running my parent's yard, destroying their vegetation, damaging their seawall, and crapping everywhere. They are tough critters and you need to hit them with a good head shot to dispatch them "humanely". The PCP guns have almost no recoil and are much faster for follow up shots. The Marauder is very quiet too!

As for pellets, Pyramyd has buy 3 get one free. Get a decent hunting pellet for quick humane kills. https://www.pyramydair.com/a/Ammo/Ai.../calibers_0_22

The Predator polymags and the H&N Baracuda Hunter Extreme work well.

August 11, 2018, 04:22 PM	#28
B.L.E. Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2008 Location: Somewhere on the Southern shore of Lake Travis, TX Posts: 2,603	The main thing to remember about air rifles is that good ones cost money. You get what you pay for. Air rifles are just as complicated, perhaps even more so than firearms, the barrel has to bored just as precisely, quality wood is just as expensive for an air rifle as for a firearm, you get the point. Actually, a single shot .22 could be built BB gun cheap, in fact the 9mm Sten sub machine gun of WWII was BB gun cheap, costing about $10 to manufacture, which is equal to $130 in today's currency. __________________ Hanlon's Razor "Do not invoke conspiracy as explanation when ignorance and incompetence will suffice, as conspiracy implies intelligence and organization."

August 11, 2018, 10:56 PM	#29
doofus47 Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2010 Location: live in a in a house when i'm not in a tent Posts: 2,483	My .22 BSA meteor killed chipmunks dead! But it would only do about 600 fps so I doubt it's a 50 yard target rifle. At 20-25 yards though: dead rodent. It was fun though. __________________ I'm right about the metric system 3/4 of the time.

August 11, 2018, 11:27 PM	#30
B.L.E. Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2008 Location: Somewhere on the Southern shore of Lake Travis, TX Posts: 2,603	Springers can achieve higher velocities than PCP as a rule, mostly because air can only escape from a pressurized vessel at the speed of sound. If you double the pressure, you also double the density of the air and even though you have twice as much potential energy in the compressed air, that air still has to accelerate itself along with the payload. The amount of velocity that can be achieved with the potential energy of compressed air pretty much defines the speed of sound. If you want a PCP to shoot supersonic, the easiest way to do it is to charge it with helium instead of air. With a springer, the rapid compression of the air right as you pull the trigger dramatically raises the temperature of the air and that means the air is less dense and has a higher speed of sound. At 1000 degrees F, the speed of sound is around 1800 fps. __________________ Hanlon's Razor "Do not invoke conspiracy as explanation when ignorance and incompetence will suffice, as conspiracy implies intelligence and organization."

August 12, 2018, 02:02 PM	#32
B.L.E. Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2008 Location: Somewhere on the Southern shore of Lake Travis, TX Posts: 2,603	I was reading the online owner's manual for a Benjamin Marauder PCP air rifle and apparently, with those super light alloy lead free pellets, this gun actually can break the sound barrier even though theoretically, the speed of sound is the upper bound for muzzle velocity in a pneumatic air gun. So what's going on? My theory is that between the pellet and the gas valve is a column of atmospheric pressure air. When the gas valve opens, this column of air suddenly gets compressed by the air behind it and heats up to a high temperature which lowers its density enough to expand at a rate higher than the cool air speed of sound. I don't take supersonic velocities that seriously because of two reasons, the first is that supersonic pellets are deflected more by crosswinds than subsonic pellets are, especially when you consider that making pellets out of light metal instead of lead takes the ballistic coefficient from bad to awful. You start getting the ballistics of shotgun pellets. The heavier slower pellets will actually have more residual velocity and energy downrange. The second reason is that it makes air rifles loud, negating one of the advantages of air rifles. If you are going to shoot something that cracks like a .22, you might as well shoot a .22. Or consider just getting a bolt action .22 and shooting CCI Quiet .22 ammo out of it. This ammo is actually quieter than a lot of air rifles and with a 40 grain bullet going 710 fps, crosswinds will not blow it all over the place at 50 yards. __________________ Hanlon's Razor "Do not invoke conspiracy as explanation when ignorance and incompetence will suffice, as conspiracy implies intelligence and organization."

August 12, 2018, 02:26 PM	#33
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,446	Excpet, some folks might be breaking the law firing an actual "firearm" inside certain limits, whereas an air rifle might be perfectly legal (This was the scenario where I previously lived) __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

August 5, 2018, 08:36 PM	#26
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	"Now how do he know dat???" I'll be totally honest. I allow cats to live here only because if I didn't, the mice would carry me off. With cats on the farm, there's a propensity for overpopulation so once or twice per year there's a "population reduction" period. This may be offensive to some but it's the way it is out here.

August 8, 2018, 02:19 PM	#27
seanc Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 1998 Posts: 590	If your pest control issue is with chipmunks, you should get a small animal trap. I catch at least 1 a day and dispatch them with whatever pellet pistol/rifle is handy. They've got a metabolism like a hummingbird and are constantly on the move. Hitting them with a pellet gun is near impossible. Rabbit and squirrel hunting with a .22 pellet rifle shouldn't be a problem out to 35 yards due to accuracy and lethality for well placed shots. For pellet rifles, do yourself a favor and increase your budget to $500. You can get the Umarex Gauntlet regulated PCP for $300 and a hand pump @ $200. Other manufacturers have also come out with similarly priced PCP rifles. I have a springer Gamo Whisper .22 that I converted to a nitro piston. It's plenty powerful (kills rabbits and squirrels easily, out to 35 yards), but being it's still a springer design, my best groups at 50 yards are about 2" offhand with domed pellets. Considering what B.L.E. posted about pellets BC, I now don't feel so bad about that.

August 12, 2018, 07:16 AM	#31
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	While working for a resort in Colorado, I killed dozens of picket pin gophers with a Crossman pump up smoothbore .177. Ranges were short(under 20 yards) but head shots were DRT. I actually preferred body hits as those critters crawled back down the holes before dying and didn't require removal.

August 12, 2018, 04:12 PM	#34
B.L.E. Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2008 Location: Somewhere on the Southern shore of Lake Travis, TX Posts: 2,603	Yes, check your local laws, where I live, it's just as illegal to shoot an airgun in city limits as it is a firearm, though it's a lot easier to get away with it when it's an airgun. Another factor to consider is when you are shooting squirrels out of trees, a 7.5 grain .177 caliber pellet is not going to go a mile and hit someone if you miss the squirrel. The very low ballistic coefficient means a rapid velocity decay and a very limited range, like a shotgun. Something to consider when your neighbors are only a half mile away. That's the real reason to consider using those 5.4 grain PBA pellets when hunting treetop game. __________________ Hanlon's Razor "Do not invoke conspiracy as explanation when ignorance and incompetence will suffice, as conspiracy implies intelligence and organization." Last edited by B.L.E.; August 12, 2018 at 04:23 PM.

August 20, 2018, 05:22 PM	#35
Waspinator Senior Member Join Date: February 10, 2013 Location: Connecticut Posts: 517	A bit late to the discussion, but I would like to add a couple of options. If you are looking for a nice, accurate air rifle without needing to fill a tank, look into Hatsan's Torpedo under-lever gas piston models. The barrel is fixed, so the accuracy tends to be more consistent over the break barrel options. They are single shot pellet rifles that load like a bolt action. They come in .22 or .25 calibers. fps ranges anywhere from 750 to 1,000 depending on the model or caliber. Price ranges from $270 - $330 depending on model. Check them out, if you are so inclined. https://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Hatsa...ut_Vortex/3619 https://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Hatsa...Air_Rifle/3648 https://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Hatsa...lnut/3645#7027

August 20, 2018, 06:38 PM	#36
stephen426 Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2005 Posts: 3,840	For furry creatures, I'd say go with .22 to .25 at a minimum. The Benjamin Nitro Piston is a great gun. It uses a nitrogen piston rather than a spring so you don't get spring fatigue or the vibration that spring piston guns get. Right now it is on sale so only $99.99 with a scope! https://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Benja...ifle/2603#5161 Consider paying for the $20 for 20 service where they mount and zero your scope, test to make sure everything is working properly, test fire 20 shots and chrono it. You'll have to buy a case for it which runs you $40 since they toss your box. I think it is a way for them to nail you for a case. If you feel comfortable mounting and zeroing your scope, you can probably skip the service. I have a Benjamin Nitro piston in .22 and .25. They are smooth shooting and VERY quiet! I ended up getting the Benjamin Marauder in .25 after the other two rifles because I needed the extra power for sniping iguanas. They are over-running my parent's yard, destroying their vegetation, damaging their seawall, and crapping everywhere. They are tough critters and you need to hit them with a good head shot to dispatch them "humanely". The PCP guns have almost no recoil and are much faster for follow up shots. The Marauder is very quiet too! As for pellets, Pyramyd has buy 3 get one free. Get a decent hunting pellet for quick humane kills. https://www.pyramydair.com/a/Ammo/Ai.../calibers_0_22 The Predator polymags and the H&N Baracuda Hunter Extreme work well. __________________ The ATF should be a convenience store instead of a government agency!