I v never tryed adding tin to lead

James Kain · December 24, 2008, 08:13 PM

I have always used wheel weights for my bullets. If I want to make them stiffer then what the wheel weights do, I add tin. Seeing how I never done that, how do I? Do I just brake off peaces of a tin can and toss it in? To me that sounds funny and funny usly dosent work when it comes to me.

crowbeaner · December 24, 2008, 08:27 PM

The best way to add tin to your alloy is to add 50/50 tin/lead solder.To add 1 lb. of tin to 18 lbs. of wheelweights, add 2 lbs of 50/50. You can use 95/5 if 50/50 isn't available. Add 1 lb 95/5 to 19 lbs WW metal. These recipes will approximate Lyman #2 alloy. If you need harder bullets, find some linotype and add 1lb. of lino to 4 lbs. of WW; skip the additional tin if you use lino to spice your mix.

James Kain · December 24, 2008, 08:42 PM

What is this lino tape? I m feeling rather ignorant on the subject.

Lunicy · December 24, 2008, 08:45 PM

Just a FYI:

There isn't any tin in a "tin" can. They've been made of steel for a long time. Solder is a good source of tin. The scrap yard sometimes has tin too.

HOGGHEAD · December 24, 2008, 08:53 PM

I am assuming by "stiffer" you mean harder?? Tin will not make your bullets harder. Basically all Tin(Sn) does in give a better "mold fill", or "fillout". Tin makes your alloy pour smoother. you need Antimony to make your lead harder. Most casters get their Antimony form Linotype, which is basically the "type set" from a printing press.

you can make your bullets harder by water quenching them immediately after casting. Or you can bake them in an oven to harden the straight WW also. Tom.

James Kain · December 24, 2008, 09:20 PM

I knew they were not made of tin, just a example. Tin rusts too easy and I dont know of any stainless tin!

Thank you for the type advice. I did mean harder, I will try the water quenching. I may also try adding solder to my lead. Al tho I m using wheel weights I would like to try new things. This is my season to do experiments and try out new methods.
If you have any other ideas for me to try, they are more then welcomed!
Thanks!

My range now is snowed in until spring.

Another range near by in 10 min from me but there too many none shooting events to use the range at any point.(all down range) There is another range I could go to but its a 45 min drive and I d have to bring my own stands, and clime over snow mountains. The only good range dosnt have the funding to plow it out.

dahermit · December 24, 2008, 09:47 PM

Quote:

I knew they were not made of tin, just a example. Tin rusts too easy and I dont know of any stainless tin!

Just to add to your confusion, tin does not rust. The only metal that rusts is iron (steel is iron with carbon added). Tin is an elemental metal that looks (somewhat) and feels about as heavy as lead, but is more silver colored when aged, whereas lead will oxidize to dark grey when it ages (oxidizes). The confusion stems from the inproper referance to things that are sheet steel as being "tin", like "tin cans" and "tin roofs."

Tin is not very common these days. It used to be used in common soft solder that was a mixture of lead and tin. Tin also was used in the plumbing of soda fountains years ago but has been replaced by plastic pipes. There is very little tin being mined in the U.S. (unlike lead) so it is fairly expensive.

At one time printing was dependent upon lead-tin alloys but that has changed and virtually all type metals have disappeared.

The only tin in a tin can used to be the soldered joint, but now there is no longer a soldered joint in "tin" cans.

CrustyFN · December 24, 2008, 10:52 PM

Tin will not harden lead you need to use something like linotype or monotype. Linotype is what is used in a printing press, it is basically a block of type with words on it. Monotype will be harder than lino because it is a single letter. I use straight wheel weights and they are testing with a BHN of 14. That should be hard enough unless you are going to load them in magnum. I had trouble getting sharp corners on my bullets so I added a little tin to help the lead flow in the mold. I add a three foot piece of 95/5 solder (95% tin and 5% antimony) to the bottom pour pot after the ingots have melted. If you add tin to help the lead flow you don't need to add more than 2%.
Rusty

totalloser · January 3, 2009, 11:23 PM

I think tin does harden your bullets when added to lead. And most wheel weights have a little tin in them already. Stick on's apparently do not. I am just getting ready to play with this, (IE no experience) but that's what my Lee book says on page 166. Antimony makes it even harder.

snuffy · January 4, 2009, 12:00 AM

Quote:

I think tin does harden your bullets when added to lead.

No it don't, not much at least. As was said above, it improves the flow ability of the lead. Another thing it does, it lowers the melting point of the alloy.

Since the 50/50 lead tin solder is a thing of the past, it's getting hard to find. Solder sold for copper pipe installation for water/heating, is now lead free. Some is 95% tin 5% antimony. Some is 95% tin 5% copper. Some is 95% tin 5% silver. Stay away from the one with 5% copper. The percentages will be on the label of the solder roll. A roll of solder will be quite expensive so use only enough tin to get good fillout.

totalloser · January 4, 2009, 12:19 AM

"Tin makes your bullet alloy more castable and harder, but it is expensive. Some tin, at least 1% is desireable." Page 166 Lee Modern Reloading.

I do not have any experience with this, so obviously can't argue the point, but thought mentioning the apparent discrepancy might be helpful. I am tempted to note, however, that if you use already alloyed metal (like ww's) adding MORE tin might make little difference as it is already alloyed. Tin and lead are BOTH soft until alloyed together.

PS I saw a reference to water dropping alloyed cast bullets bumping hardness from 12 to 24 with the same alloy.

brickeyee · January 4, 2009, 04:35 PM

Quote:

The only tin in a tin can used to be the soldered joint, but now there is no longer a soldered joint in "tin" cans.

'Tin cans' are tin plated steel.
The tin prevents the contents of the can from corroding the steel.

There are a number of polymer coatings used most of the time now.

Plumbing solder is a tin-antimony alloy (sometimes with a few percent of silver) now that lead is not allowed.

Tin is still routinely used in tin-lead solder for electronics work.

Tin is around $5 a pound.

snuffy · January 4, 2009, 05:27 PM

I'm going to go get out my lee hardness tester. I'm going to test some 20-1 lead tin alloy I made using virgin 99.95% pure lead and pure tin. Both from Midway . It should show how little the tin "hardens" the pure lead.

Okay, the 20-1 boolit turned out to be 9.0 BHN. Pure lead is 6.0. Some say it is 5.0, some say it is 7.0 BHN, so I split the difference, call it 6.0 Soooooooo the hardness gained from %5 tin added to pure lead is 3.0, not much of a gain. As has been stated, over 2% tin is wasting expensive metal. Why then do I go with 5%? For the added castability, I get far fewer rejects with the higher percentage of tin. And the resulting boolits are shiny and bright.

December 24, 2008, 08:13 PM	#1
James Kain Member Join Date: July 17, 2008 Location: Maine Posts: 83	I v never tryed adding tin to lead I have always used wheel weights for my bullets. If I want to make them stiffer then what the wheel weights do, I add tin. Seeing how I never done that, how do I? Do I just brake off peaces of a tin can and toss it in? To me that sounds funny and funny usly dosent work when it comes to me. __________________ They May Mimic, BUT NO ONE ELSE CAN FALLOW! Gilli up, the predictors be a coming. Be it man or beast they are after food, sport, or blood. http://s2.darkpirates.com/c.php?uid=148870

December 24, 2008, 08:42 PM	#3
James Kain Member Join Date: July 17, 2008 Location: Maine Posts: 83	lino What is this lino tape? I m feeling rather ignorant on the subject. __________________ They May Mimic, BUT NO ONE ELSE CAN FALLOW! Gilli up, the predictors be a coming. Be it man or beast they are after food, sport, or blood. http://s2.darkpirates.com/c.php?uid=148870

December 24, 2008, 08:53 PM	#5
HOGGHEAD Senior Member Join Date: April 2, 2008 Location: Rivesville, WV Posts: 637	Stiffer I am assuming by "stiffer" you mean harder?? Tin will not make your bullets harder. Basically all Tin(Sn) does in give a better "mold fill", or "fillout". Tin makes your alloy pour smoother. you need Antimony to make your lead harder. Most casters get their Antimony form Linotype, which is basically the "type set" from a printing press. you can make your bullets harder by water quenching them immediately after casting. Or you can bake them in an oven to harden the straight WW also. Tom.

December 24, 2008, 09:20 PM	#6
James Kain Member Join Date: July 17, 2008 Location: Maine Posts: 83	Thanks I knew they were not made of tin, just a example. Tin rusts too easy and I dont know of any stainless tin! Thank you for the type advice. I did mean harder, I will try the water quenching. I may also try adding solder to my lead. Al tho I m using wheel weights I would like to try new things. This is my season to do experiments and try out new methods. If you have any other ideas for me to try, they are more then welcomed! Thanks! My range now is snowed in until spring. Another range near by in 10 min from me but there too many none shooting events to use the range at any point.(all down range) There is another range I could go to but its a 45 min drive and I d have to bring my own stands, and clime over snow mountains. The only good range dosnt have the funding to plow it out. __________________ They May Mimic, BUT NO ONE ELSE CAN FALLOW! Gilli up, the predictors be a coming. Be it man or beast they are after food, sport, or blood. http://s2.darkpirates.com/c.php?uid=148870

December 24, 2008, 10:52 PM	#8
CrustyFN Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2006 Location: West Virginia Posts: 2,258	Tin will not harden lead you need to use something like linotype or monotype. Linotype is what is used in a printing press, it is basically a block of type with words on it. Monotype will be harder than lino because it is a single letter. I use straight wheel weights and they are testing with a BHN of 14. That should be hard enough unless you are going to load them in magnum. I had trouble getting sharp corners on my bullets so I added a little tin to help the lead flow in the mold. I add a three foot piece of 95/5 solder (95% tin and 5% antimony) to the bottom pour pot after the ingots have melted. If you add tin to help the lead flow you don't need to add more than 2%. Rusty __________________ I don't ever remember being absent minded.

December 24, 2008, 08:27 PM	#2
crowbeaner Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2007 Location: Upstate SC Posts: 1,943	The best way to add tin to your alloy is to add 50/50 tin/lead solder.To add 1 lb. of tin to 18 lbs. of wheelweights, add 2 lbs of 50/50. You can use 95/5 if 50/50 isn't available. Add 1 lb 95/5 to 19 lbs WW metal. These recipes will approximate Lyman #2 alloy. If you need harder bullets, find some linotype and add 1lb. of lino to 4 lbs. of WW; skip the additional tin if you use lino to spice your mix. __________________ If you want your children to follow in your footsteps, be careful where you walk. Beware the man that only owns one gun; he probably knows how to use it. I just hope my ship comes in before my dock rots.

December 24, 2008, 08:45 PM	#4
Lunicy Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2008 Location: Behind enemy lines, jersey shore Posts: 118	Just a FYI: There isn't any tin in a "tin" can. They've been made of steel for a long time. Solder is a good source of tin. The scrap yard sometimes has tin too.

January 3, 2009, 11:23 PM	#9
totalloser Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2007 Location: Fort Bragg, CA Posts: 679	I think tin does harden your bullets when added to lead. And most wheel weights have a little tin in them already. Stick on's apparently do not. I am just getting ready to play with this, (IE no experience) but that's what my Lee book says on page 166. Antimony makes it even harder. __________________ You only truly believe in freedom if you believe in the freedom of those you disagree.

January 4, 2009, 12:19 AM	#11
totalloser Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2007 Location: Fort Bragg, CA Posts: 679	"Tin makes your bullet alloy more castable and harder, but it is expensive. Some tin, at least 1% is desireable." Page 166 Lee Modern Reloading. I do not have any experience with this, so obviously can't argue the point, but thought mentioning the apparent discrepancy might be helpful. I am tempted to note, however, that if you use already alloyed metal (like ww's) adding MORE tin might make little difference as it is already alloyed. Tin and lead are BOTH soft until alloyed together. PS I saw a reference to water dropping alloyed cast bullets bumping hardness from 12 to 24 with the same alloy. __________________ You only truly believe in freedom if you believe in the freedom of those you disagree. Last edited by totalloser; January 4, 2009 at 12:31 AM.

January 4, 2009, 05:27 PM	#13
snuffy Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2001 Location: Oshkosh wi. Posts: 3,055	I'm going to go get out my lee hardness tester. I'm going to test some 20-1 lead tin alloy I made using virgin 99.95% pure lead and pure tin. Both from Midway . It should show how little the tin "hardens" the pure lead. Okay, the 20-1 boolit turned out to be 9.0 BHN. Pure lead is 6.0. Some say it is 5.0, some say it is 7.0 BHN, so I split the difference, call it 6.0 Soooooooo the hardness gained from %5 tin added to pure lead is 3.0, not much of a gain. As has been stated, over 2% tin is wasting expensive metal. Why then do I go with 5%? For the added castability, I get far fewer rejects with the higher percentage of tin. And the resulting boolits are shiny and bright. __________________ The more people I meet, the more I love my dog They're going to get their butts kicked over there this election. How come people can't spell and use words correctly?