How much does it cost in Texas to obtain your class3 license

[Mr.XD9mm]

Live in Texas and was wondering what does it take to get a full auto legally.
I know that long ago you used to obtain a class3 weapon license or higher and pay around a 1,000 dollars. What is the cost now and what are the steps you go about getting started?

Open to all comments and info thanks

[Dave Haven]

In Texas, as in most states, you DON'T need a Class 3 license to own a full auto. You can own it as an individual via a Form 4 transfer, either from a Class 3 dealer or an individual in your state of residence. The registration/transfer tax is $200.
After locating the MG you wish to purchase, you submit your completed Form 4 (in duplicate) to BATFE with two sets of fingerprints (on FBI form FD-258, IIRC), a recent photograph (passport photos work) attached to each copy of Form 4, and a check for $200.
Then you wait for approval, which can take 6-12 weeks. Upon approval, you may take possession of your new toy.

[Mr.XD9mm]

Would it be better to have the class 3 license if it is still around a thousand bucks?

[Dave Haven]

Probably not.
As a dealer, I believe you would be under much closer scrutiny by BATFE than if you purchase the MG as an individual. (I may be FOS on this point.)
Besides that, the Class 3 dealer license is a yearly fee. The individual transfer is a one-time $200 tax per NFA firearm.

[shaggy]

To add on to what Dave had to say, if you get a dealers license (rather than simply effect a F4 transfer as an individual) you must actually conduct business. Obtaining a license simply to enhance your personal collection without doing business is illegal.

Of additional note: the fees for a dealers license include the regular FFL costs, the SOT, and the costs of all appropriate state and local business licenses. For the FFL & SOT you will also need to have proper zoning for such business (IOW if you want to run it out of your home there must be no zoning ordnances to the contrary). The SOT as a dealer is $500/year. That said, with the FFL 01/SOT you can only buy transferables (as you would as an individual) and pre-samples. To buy and acquire post samples you would need a demonstration request letter from a law enforcement agency for each post sample you need to acquire and BATF will usually only approve one of each type, regardless of the number of letters. The presamples can be had for slightly less than transferables (and don't require the LE love letter) but if you do not engage in business you run the serious risk of being charged with tax evasion.

Bottom line - unless you are truly planning to get into the business, do not get the SOT.

[boofus]

Yup, you get hit with tax evasion if you get a FFL/SOT for the sole purpose of building up your gun collection.

[Dave Haven]

Yup, you get hit with tax evasion if you get a FFL/SOT for the sole purpose of building up your gun collection.

That's the way I understand it.
When I tell people about the "toys" I built on Form 1 in the early '80's, they almost invariably ask if I have a Class 3 license. I explain to them that a class 3 license is only needed for dealing in title II firearms.

[Mr.XD9mm]

I will agree the one time fee would suit me best. Don't want to have a cell mate named Bubba :barf: . Thanks for the information didn't know that about the Class3 license. Does the ATF check in on you if you have that transfer fee for adding your collection?

[shaggy]

Does the ATF check in on you if you have that transfer fee for adding your collection?

No, assuming you only buy your NFA weapons as an individual and pay the transfer tax (ie. you are not a licensed dealer, importer, or manufacturer). If you get a dealer, importer, or manufacturer's license you will have occasional visits from BATFE.

[Dave Haven]

I've never had the ATF check in on me regarding any of my (pre '86 Form 1) registered toys.
I met a local ATF agent at the local ski area last ski season.
He likes my toys.

[Cortland]

Let's get some things straight here. Buying a Title II firearm an individual costs at most about $300 + the cost of the gun.

If you want to become a Class 3 SOT (dealer in NFA firearms), you've got to become a Type 01 FFL ($200 for the first 3 years, $90 thereafter). You've got to become a Class 3 SOT ($500 a year). You've got to set up a bonafide business. You've got to deal with local zoning issues. You've got to convince the ATF that your FFL/SOT isn't just to expand your personal collection (or, as other have said, you could get hit up for back taxes).

If you want to become a Class 2 SOT (i.e., a manufacturer able to build your own machineguns) that's where it really gets wild. You've got to get the FFL and the Class 2 SOT as well as deal with all the zoning crap, and on top of that as a manufacturer you get to pay the $1750 yearly ITAR fee to the State Department.

FFL/SOTs are supposed to be bonafide dealers/manufacturers. Getting in to it just for the pre-samples and post-samples probably doesn't make sense for the vast majority of MG-owners and MG-wannabes.

[migrantmigraine]

Do you have to renew the form 4 bit every year, or is there no more paperwork or checks sent out until you move or something?
I'd love an American 180....

Also, I guess silencers are covered, too? I'd love one for the .22 - could fire my semi all night and day.

[boofus]

The form 4 is an 'application for tax paid transfer'

Once the application is approved and the tax paid you don't pay anything more. Ownership has been transferred to you or your corporation and it stays that way until you fill out another Application for Tax Paid Transfer if you want to give it to someone else.

The transfer of the weapon from person to person is what's being taxed. Not the weapon itself.

[Beren@THR]

you get hit with tax evasion if you get a FFL/SOT for the sole purpose of building up your gun collection.

Okay, so you get hit with a tax evasion charge.

How could any jury find you guilty of tax evasion when the government won't ACCEPT the tax when you try and pay it?

[CQBArms]

Holy cow!

Transfer tax for everything except AOW =$200, for AOW = $5.

If you get an FFL and SOT and then just buy a bunch of presamples, and dump your FFL/SOT...that would be a VERY good example of buying for collecting.



The TAX is a transfer tax paind EACH time the item is transfered to an individual that is not otherwise exempt from the tax. You pay it once.

Having NFA does not give the BATFE any rights to search your home, do inspections, bla bla bla. It's an old "gun show tale".

[shaggy]

Okay, so you get hit with a tax evasion charge.

How could any jury find you guilty of tax evasion when the government won't ACCEPT the tax when you try and pay it?

How are you trying to pay the tax if you obtain a FFL/SOT for the sole purpose of enhancing your personal collection? Read CQB's post above. As a dealer, you can transfer NFA weapons (to other SOTs) and have NFA weapons transfered to you tax-free. If you were an unlicensed individual you would have to pay the tax on those firearms you were eligible to buy (transferables). Thus, if you bought transferables or pre-samples on the license via a F3 tax-free transfer as CQBArms mentioned above, you would be evading the tax requirement on the transferables and presample keepers (which you would not have been eligible to purchase anyhow).

Now if your beef is that the government won't allow you and I as unlicensed John Q. Citizens to make and buy transfer new MGs because they won't accept the tax on newly made MGs then you've forgotten about FOPA'86. The NFA mandates the payment of the tax, but 922(o) cutoff registration of new MGs via the interstate commerce power of Congress.

[imur_huckle_berry]

NO S*&$...I didn't know that!!! can you back it up? I will purchase one for just a $200 tax fee!

[chas_martel]

imur_huckle_berry,

If you want more info try subguns.com and/or titleii.com

And another thing, the $200 is nothing. IT is the price of transferables
and ammo that will get ya.