So,... Radical Firearms? Tell me about them

[scoobysnacker]

Like a whole lot of folks, I have firearms but didn't have an AR; but the last few months have convinced me that a lightweight semiauto with multiple high capacity mags isn't a bad thing to have around.

I know this isn't the best time to be looking for anything, but on the other hand, it doesn't look like things are going to get better any sooner, and if you can get 'something', it'd be worthwhile to have.
Not being an AR pro, I didn't have too much personal knowledge to apply, so I've looked at forums, and I've done some google searches. It seems the budget gun range cuts off at $500.

So I explored guns I've seen listed in the "best gun for $500" lists. I noted a familiar brand, Palmetto State Armory (who hasn't heard of their guns?), but I can't find a complete one for under $700 right now. Ruger and S&W make those lists, but even before things went crazy, they were listed with the "sometimes you can find a sale" caveat, otherwise they were a bit higher. Well, we all know how likely a sale is going to be right now

Another commonly mentioned brand was Radical Firearms, which seemed to have the "best package for the price" comment attached to it. I searched around, and lo and behold, I've been able to acquire 2 (I've got a college-aged son who's wanted an AR longer than I have, and he cringed when Dad finally gets one, but for himself, not me???
So yeah, 2, it's his Christmas present for him and he is quite happy with that.
First one came from Indian River Armory, $475, $25 shipped, another $20 for FFL. I have this one already, have put some ammo downrange, it functioned flawlessly for the magazines I used. Not a lot, maybe 80 rds. 20 IMI brass 55gr fmj, another 60 Tula steel cased, 55gr fmj. Buddy of mine had an extra set of backup sights and they worked, I've since added some more iron sights I got at Optics Planet.

Like I said, I wanted another for my son, so I looked around to see if I could replicate that deal. Found one at Primary Arms for $499 but it went out of stock before I could buy it. But it came into stock again yesterday, at $525, and I went ahead and ordered. $525, $10 shipped, so not too much more. I figure the average of the 2 is $500, so I will say 2x $500 rifles.

Both are 16" SOCOM barrels with 1:7 twist, flat tops. Both have free-floated M-Lok front grips, the first one is 12", the 2nd has 15". The first has A2 pistol grip and 'normal' buttstock, the 2nd will have a Mission First minimalist stock and grip. Both in 556, just to clarify.

Now, googling around, I see evidence that these guns sold for as low as $398, and generally in the low-mid $400's, until now. That's obviously not coming back anytime soon, and I've seen videos from then where the stated MSRP was right about where I bought. So, pricewise, I don't think I did awful, especially not for right now.

Intended usage- we don't have easy access to land, so the rifles are going to be range plinkers and home defense for when the pistols aren't enough. Accuracy expectations, figure that accordingly... no current plans for optics. Want a gun that runs, not a sniper rifle.
Other stuff- I picked up some Korean steel 30 rd mags for $5.99 apiece, enough to split between the pair. Ammo- 1 case of IMI, a case of Tula with a 2nd on the way. I prefer brass, but since I got the Tula for $250 a case, I figure it's better than nothing. The first one ran fine on it. I looked into it, and know I need to clean it... so I have/will. And in personal opinion, a gun should be able to use whatever you can get when times are rough... which is exactly where we are right now.

What's the objective opinion on these rifles? Not the "oh, I'd rather have a ____" for X amount more... that's for normal times, and times aren't normal. Are these considered solid, functional rifles, and is $500 a fair current market price? If not, why?

Thanks

[ghbucky]

I'm in the exact same boat as you are.

I managed to pick up an Anderson AR for $450 as a doorbuster at a local Sportsman Warehouse.

I put a red dot on it, and its fun to shoot. I also learned that these guns are DIRTY!

[44 AMP]

Sorry I can't help you with any personal opinion of Radical Firearms. I don't follow the AR market closely. I sold my last AR in the panic run before the 1994 AWB. Got $900 for a rifle I had $450 into. So, if you're paying $500 for one now, almost 30 years later, I don't think you're being horribly ripped off. Provided you aren't buying total crap.

I am a bit curious about this,

And in personal opinion, a gun should be able to use whatever you can get when times are rough... which is exactly where we are right now.

First, why do you have that opinion?

And, second, with that opinion, why did you buy semi autos? They are the MOST dependent on proper ammo of any class of firearms.

If you want a gun that works with "anything you can get" then you get a manually operated firearm, (revolver, bolt action rifle, single shot, etc.) And that no guarantee, they just up the odds.

Manually operated guns will, essentially "work" on anything you can stuff in the chamber that goes bang. Semis are NOT like that. Not even close.

Rather than expecting your gun(s) to run on anything you can get, you should be getting what you can of ammo you know your gun runs on.

this may mean frustrating delays and perhaps not being able to use the very cheapest crap, even though it is available. Don't be "pennywise and pound foolish".

[stagpanther]

It really depends--if you want an AR that is essentially a civilian version of a combat firearm but autofeed only, and you anticipate a zombie Alamo were you might have to fire thousands of rounds in the last kamikaze run when reliability is essential--that t narrows the field down quite a bit. Otherwise, you really can't go wrong with the majority of plain Jane 5.56 AR's that are being offered at reasonable prices these days. Gets hard when you want an AR that is a miracle worker and does everything great.

[scoobysnacker]

I am a bit curious about this,

Quote:
And in personal opinion, a gun should be able to use whatever you can get when times are rough... which is exactly where we are right now

I'm referring to steel cased ammo. Coming from other platforms, I'm very aware of the preference for brass. I'd rather have brass too. But it shouldn't be a deal-breaker.
That's in reference to some of the things I've read regarding steel-cased in the AR's.

And, second, with that opinion, why did you buy semi autos? They are the MOST dependent on proper ammo

Semiauto gives you much greater potential firing rate. I chose it the same reason the military chose it over bolt actions. And again, brass vs steel. "Proper ammo" is, in my mind, the correct caliber. It can be loaded to maximize accuracy, it can be clean or dirty, it can be plinking vs SD or hunting etc. You can have a preferred brand, but it should be able to FUNCTION with any brand, casing, etc. Assuming the actual rd is functional (primer works etc).

If you want a gun that works with "anything you can get" then you get a manually operated firearm, (revolver, bolt action rifle, single shot, etc.) And that no guarantee, they just up the odds.

Definitely understand that. It's the reason I have both a bolt action and a revolver in 22lr , as those eat anything. My semiautos in 22 can be picky.

Manually operated guns will, essentially "work" on anything you can stuff in the chamber that goes bang. Semis are NOT like that. Not even close.

Ok, I understand that too. Let's clarify- I'm new to AR's, not to firearms. I have handguns in 9x19, 9x18, 45 acp, 32 acp, etc. If we stick to JUST DA/SA metal-frame 9x19 with a barrel of 4" or greater, I have enough to carry a different pistol every day for almost a month. I've got enough 9mm SA's to do that for another week. Not a boast, simply a statement. I've owned them for awhile, most recent acquisition was a 226 DAK (which I guess fits into yet another class) a few months before the world fell apart.

I LIKE to run S&B 124gr fmj (SB9B) through my 9's. They CAN and HAVE functioned just fine with lots of stuff, including Tula steel, Federal aluminum, etc. Honestly the "crappiest" option has not been steel-cased, it's been UMC, and then WWB.
I've shot S&B, Fiocchi, Winchester, Remington, Aguila, PPU, Yavex, Blazer, MEN, Geco, PMC, Tula, Wolf (all colors), Freedom Munitions and LAX reloads, etc. Have some Fenix on the way. And I'm aware that store brands like Herters and Monarch are actually one of the above (Herters used to be S&B, appears to be WWB now; Monarch brass was PPU and steel was Brown Bear).
Right now, I wouldn't turn my nose up at anything, if the price is acceptable.

Going back to the AR- I've seen "never use steel case, with bimetal jackets". I get that completely as a preference, I share it. My range doesn't care, so I'm not restricted by that. I understand that the jackets can accelerate wear on the rifling, especially if I shoot it hot and extended sessions. I also understand that the cases don't expand the same, and you get more blowback of gasses so you need to clean it more thoroughly and often.
The point I intended, was that I don't want to have a gun that CAN'T run through a couple mags of the "cheap stuff" in a pinch.

you should be getting what you can of ammo you know your gun runs on

Always a good point. And I get that completely, whether it's choking, or in the case of my High Standard 22, only running SV instead of HV or SHV. Same reason I don't want to run lots of Yavex through some of my 9's, as that's a HOT loaded cartridge.

The AR I have is brand new, I literally have shot 2 brands through it. IMI, and Tula. They both function 100% in my limited experience. I have yet to try another brand (take that back, used some Golden Tiger from my brother, I think I ran a mag of that too, it worked fine).

this may mean frustrating delays and perhaps not being able to use the very cheapest crap, even though it is available. Don't be "pennywise and pound foolish".

I do understand that point, and I certainly don't want to come across as combative. I appreciate all the input I can get, which is why I posted and asked.

I own firearms, didn't have an AR. The world is currently going crazy around us, and while I don't EXPECT to see a mob outside my door tomorrow morning, I also don't feel NEARLY as comfortable as I did 6 months ago. I made the reasoned and informed decision to add an AR in 556 to the stable, as I didn't have that particular tool in the box. Closest would be an SKS, I decided the lighter weight and higher capacity would be, how to say, a comfort.

Waiting on the "best ammo", or the "best gun" (after all, now's not the best time to be buying ),... I simply decided that wasn't the best option. I'd rather have something instead of nothing.
My desire RIGHT NOW is to have a rifle that feeds, cycles, hits a plate at 50 yds with iron sights, and won't blow my hand off.
I completely understand that there's a lot more to the platform than just that, and normally I look for more than that, too. Things ain't normal right now.

I hope that makes sense, and that nobody takes it the wrong way. Thanks for the responses!

[Rob96]

I managed a couple of weeks ago to pick up a Del Ton Echo 316M with 4150CMV barrel and HPT/MPI bolt for $499.99.

[44caliberkid]

I have two Radical uppers, a 5.56 and a 458 SOCOM. I put together my own lowers but both run 100% and are accurate. I was just talking to an AR builder at the range last week and he had a Radical upper that he was very happy with. I think you did well, especially considering the current state of nuttiness.
I wouldn't use steel case ammo though. There is pretty cheap brass case ammo out there that it isn't worth the potential problems.

[GarandTd]

I have no experience with Radical Firearms, but I have heard of them and it wasn't a bunch of negative things. The fact that you found a couple of complete ARs for that price in this current climate suprises me. Good for you. I have a "budget" AR and I absolutely love it. It really is a well designed system.

[scoobysnacker]

Originally Posted by GarandTd

I have no experience with Radical Firearms, but I have heard of them and it wasn't a bunch of negative things. The fact that you found a couple of complete ARs for that price in this current climate suprises me. Good for you. I have a "budget" AR and I absolutely love it. It really is a well designed system.

Thanks for the reply. I'd long been satisfied with handguns and surplus bolt actions, and my lone foray into centerfire semiauto rifles had been the SKS until recently. At the very beginning of the Covid scene, I picked up a C308 (new Cetme), which I have enjoyed, and happily discovered it actually prefers the cheap steel ammo.

Now that the world has gone insane, I wanted something a bit more than a pistol, and a bit less than a battle rifle. The SKS fits into that, but it's still kinda heavy.

[Fishbed77]

A friend bought a new Radical AR-15 a few months ago. Not to offend anyone here, but it’s not a terribly impressive rifle, even for the cost. The general finish is a bit rough compared even to other low-cost ARs like PSA or Ruger. The milling of the MLOK forearm is a bit sharp, and the forearm is quite heavy for what it is. A good many failures to feed with his example, but it was breaking in, and a liberal amount of oil helped. Still has intermittent failures to lock the bolt on the last round. Maybe it will improve. It’s overgassed, but I’m guessing that’s done to cycle cheap ammo. Accuracy was acceptable with the bulk ammo we used. The takedown pins are so tight they require a hammer and punch to dissemble the rifle. It’s got some nice features, but missing a lot of more critical details like staking on the castle nut, good gas key staking, etc.

I get the feeling that it’s assembled of the lowest-cost parts in an effort to make the nicest-looking package for the money. But I don’t get the feeling the quality or attention to detail is there. Personally, if one’s goal is purely a low-cost AR, I think one would do better with a PSA, S&W, or Ruger.


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[TX Nimrod]

What is the OP’s goal, an AR which goes bang or a reliable defensive weapon? For me, if I’m trying to defend my family’s lives cost is of no concern. I purchased my Colt AR-15 in 1981 and have fired who knows how many thousands of rounds through it since. I do not use junk factory ammo or handloads, and I don’t remember ever having a failure to feed or fire. I keep a reasonable (but not a hoard) of ammo available. Plan ahead, be prepared.

My experience is limited to that particular AR, current ARs I know nothing of personally. My advice, choose wisely based on a wide variety if opinions.


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[Fishbed77]

What is the OP’s goal, an AR which goes bang or a reliable defensive weapon? For me, if I’m trying to defend my family’s lives cost is of no concern.

This is an extremely valid question. While cost is always a concern, quality hard-use rifles (Colt, BCM). can be had for a few hundred bucks more than what the budget options are going for these days. The OP mentioned he wasn’t interested in more expensive rifles, but they are worth considering.

[GarandTd]

What constitutes "hard-use"? Whatever that is, I'm fairly certain I don't do it, but I think it should be defined. And what components make "hard-use" rifles worthy of hard use?

[scoobysnacker]

Originally Posted by TX Nimrod

What is the OP’s goal, an AR which goes bang or a reliable defensive weapon? For me, if I’m trying to defend my family’s lives cost is of no concern. I purchased my Colt AR-15 in 1981 and have fired who knows how many thousands of rounds through it since. I do not use junk factory ammo or handloads, and I don’t remember ever having a failure to feed or fire. I keep a reasonable (but not a hoard) of ammo available. Plan ahead, be prepared.

My experience is limited to that particular AR, current ARs I know nothing of personally. My advice, choose wisely based on a wide variety if opinions.


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Well, I have multiple handguns that I feel 100% reliable. I wanted an AR, in part because the world has gone crazy and I don't feel like a pistol should be the upper limit of my home protection. I also decided I do want "an AR", in the odd chance we can't buy one afterwards.

Can you clarify- what's the difference between a gun that goes bang, and a defensive weapon? To me, the primary concern in any defensive weapon is that it goes bang. Not being difficult, being honest.

Primary defensive use if need be- home defense, within 50 yds if SHTF (roving mobs of angry people coming to burn my house down, and the cops ain't coming). Basically, if I look out the window and think "Oh crap, my P226 isn't going to be enough", I want something other than an SKS, or the Enfield doing the Mad Minute drill.
I know, that sounds absurd... but it's not quite as unlikely as it was 4 months ago.

Otherwise, it's an AR "to have one", range plinker at similar short ranges. Only outdoor range I have access to currently, 100m is max distance. So iron sights, wanting minute of paper plate. Would expect not to burn through more than 100 rds per session, would plan on disassembling and cleaning thoroughly afterwards.

Primary firearms passion is slanted towards hammer-fired, metal framed handguns; and surplus rifles. All things being equal, I'd prefer a classic Colt/Armalite in the original configuration, rather than a tactical doo-dad.

I guess the best way to put it- if I were approaching the 1911 platform, I would certainly appreciate an Ed Brown or Nighthawk. But I would be completely satisfied with an Armscor, for the current purpose. So I'm looking for an Armscor-level AR. Functions, does what it should.
I'm assuming that the AR platform is solid enough that an entry-level rifle will function if maintained. I don't want to pay through the nose for something more than I want, I'd rather go for a different platform that's more reliable instead, if a $500 gun doesn't work.

[Fishbed77]

What constitutes "hard-use"? Whatever that is, I'm fairly certain I don't do it, but I think it should be defined. And what components make "hard-use" rifles worthy of hard use?

The OP mentions “home defense.” For protecting one’s family and home, many folks, myself included, do not want to rely on a carbine they bought just because it was the cheapest available option.

They want one made of quality parts by a manufacturer with a reputation for high levels of QA and QC, who focuses on the details. The good news if that the cost delta between the budget guns and something with a higher attention to detail is not vast.

Let’s be clear, if you just want an AR-15 for plinking fun and to toy with and accessorize, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I own a few ARs (and quite a few guns in general). that meet that description.

But when the conversation is about protecting my life and my family’s, the stakes are increased exponentially, as is are my expectations of the tool I’m depending on.

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[Double K]

I've always been amazed at how reliable AR-15's are, I've never had one jam hunting, not one time since 1989.

[kymasabe]

I dont buy AR's anymore, I assemble my own. Nice thing about them is they're modular. Got an upper you dont like? No problem, take it apart, upgrade the barrel, change the handguard, toss in a new bcg, and within an hour you've transformed your upper.
So, if the Radical isn't to your liking, don't panic, just break out the tools and fix it.

[Tallest]

My opinion on cheap vs. expensive ARs has evolved a little recently.

I'll start by saying I'm currently saving for something fairly high-end if/when the demand surge blows over. Maybe a Radian or LMT. Maybe I'm a sucker for marketing, maybe I'd like to see what one feels like. Maybe I'm just a dumb schmuck who can't take his own advise.

But with automated technology and modern production capabilities, every company is capable of making parts within tolerances and assembling them. What you end up paying for is QC and attention to detail.

So... you can buy at baseline and then add the attention to detail and QC yourself. *That is why a working knowledge of the system is imperative to maintaining a highly functioning AR!* The ability to diagnose and correct the issues that diminish function/reliability will serve you on any AR across the entire price spectrum.

If you go this route, I imagine you'll almost always come in lower than the price of "Gucci" AR. Not all good parts are the most expensive parts.

So I think you're probably fine with the Radicals. Just don't let them stay "good enough" if you start to have issues that make you think they could be better.

[GarandTd]

For the most part, you get what you pay for, I suppose. I won't argue that. I would feel incredibly secure defending my family, home, and self with my $400 AR. It has not had a single hiccup. I have the utmost faith in my carbine to do what I need it to.
Results may vary.

Scoobysnacker, I would recommend running different brands of ammo and bullet weights. Vet your rifle, because that's what matters now. Also, it would be a good idea to pick up some spare parts. Spare parts kits are(or were) available on sites like Midway or Brownells. Or, you can buy them individually. I have mostly spare parts for my bolt carrier group. Gas rings, cam pin, firing pin retainer,....you get the idea. Watch some YouTube videos on disassembly (easy)and get familiar with the parts

[scoobysnacker]

Thanks for the replies.

I know we have always posted lots of stuff about our guns, like proud parents. Gorgeous, beautiful fit and finish, stunning grips. We like to show them off, and we like to pamper them. I've seen AR's that look like hat racks, there's so much attached to them. It's not limited to ARs, I know full well that we do it for practically every brand and platform. The concept of putting cheap steel-cased ammo through your prized 1911 could cause some to have seizures, people would want to apologize to their guns and the manufacturers for such sins.

My intent for these Radical AR's is to treat them like a workhorse, not a thoroughbred. I WILL clean and maintain them, but I'm going to test ammo from the bottom up, not from the top down. If it shoots the crappiest stuff fine and "groups" as a hit on paper at a said distance- minute of bad guy- then, good. They're not going to be employed as sniper rifles to shoot the wings off flies. I want lead hitting a man-sized target.

If I have to move up the chain in ammo, I will... but not until I rule out the lowest common denominator.

[GarandTd]

Sounds like a good plan to me.

[44caliberkid]

I run steel case in a 45ACP AR pistol and in a 7.62X39 AR, because it runs those the best. But in 5.56, if they lacquer the case, it melts in the chamber and can "glue" the fired case in there, resulting in breaking off the extractor. So don't blame the "cheap Radical parts" if that happens. I might run Silver Bear or Golden Bear, because they have a zinc or copper wash on the case. But I see a lot of steel case 5.56 empties on the ground at the range, so what do I know.

[Dred]

I live down the road from Radical. My son in law won this one in a raffle - it's a heck of a gun for $10. It's mine now 'cause Christmas for the g'kids was a thing.



This is what she did for me last time we went hole punching:



She's been 100% reliable. I'd say you did great at $500 per.

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