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Old October 6, 2018, 06:47 AM   #51
Jack O'Conner
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Cow elk weigh in at approx 375 to 450 lbs. Any modern 180 grain bullet is a fine choice - I've had very good luck with Remington core-lokt ammo.

Jack

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Old October 6, 2018, 01:23 PM   #52
briandg
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Quote:
The only
factory ammo I had issue with was Winchester 3006 Silver Tips. They shot
through deer like military FMJs. I was a teenager I bought them because they looked cool.
You were suckered, it's that simple. The silvertip was meant for larger game with heavier bones and tissues.

The bullet itself was a standard cup and core that was designed with a large exposed lead point, and that lead point was covered with an aluminum cap that was crimped on when the jacket was swaged on. The thing worked on heavy animals because the aluminum cap had to break and rupture before the soft point could started expansion, and the huge wad of lead expanded the bullet quickly afterwards as it went through the remaining animal.

Quote:
I have a box of Rem Bronze Points and would suppose they
will do the same thing. I haven't ever shot anything with one.
The bronze point was the original polymer tipped round. Impact of the tip was ssupposed to pop the bullet open and initiate expansion immediately. I have heard little praise and a lot of poop regarding them. Either the point failed to start expansion or the core literally went to pieces as the jacket split.

The bronze point was a first generation, and it was created before we could test for effectiveness. Our tools and design capabilities were primitive. Nosler developed a solid based bullet in both HP and SP styles, and later added a tipped bullet. The nosler bullet was far better because nosler worked harder at it. You cannot possibly compare the old BP with the new breed of tipped bullets.

Good business practice is to try and sell people things that cost more. years back when winchester had the black talon, they also released a black rifle bullet with something like five or more components, advertising it as an extreme penetrator and worth every dollar. So here we are in white tail country, and there were tens of thousands of dollars worth of these black bullets out on display come deer season. These things were meant to shoot through heavy game, and they did. People bought $2 ammo and had deer walking away.

The new poly tips are good for ballistics and perform well on small game. They aren't meant for heavy game. other types are meant for elk.
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Old October 6, 2018, 11:32 PM   #53
HiBC
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Quote:
The new poly tips are good for ballistics and perform well on small game. They aren't meant for heavy game. other types are meant for elk.
Your overall post was good,we disagree a bit on this point.

Frankly,I've never hunted elk with factory loads.Started rolling my own in the late 60's.
I do not have Cor-Loct Remington experience.Apparently,they do the job.

I grew up reading Elmer Kieth wtite about Western Tool and Copper bullets froma 333 OKH ,busting the south end of a northbound bull. I'm thinking a busy man who needs meat has his own way of doing things.

If you have the luxury of choosing a shot through ribs into the boiler room,a 308 shooting a 165 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip will work just fine inside 300 yds.

So would a 15 grains of lead heavier 180 gr.It will open up and soup the heart/lungs.
And there are the Accu-Bond and Partition options.

I'm not knocking the Remington Cor-Lokt ammo.I'm sure its worked fine for decades.

I'll say it this way. Few would argue with a 130 gr Cor-Lokt from a 270 being adequate for this cow elk. But its not for blowing holes through something brown crashing through the trees. It works hitting the boiler room.And frankly,so will a .243 properly loaded.
If you can place a shot a 165 gr Ballistic Tip works fine.So does a 180.
No doubt either Cor-Lokt will also do fine.
The 308 is not extreme.That helps it be dependable.I'll agree that too hard of a bullet may not work as well.For myself,I'd probably choose the Ballistic Tip over the Accubond.
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Old October 6, 2018, 11:58 PM   #54
briandg
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well, yes, that wasn't particularly well stated. We have so many different types of tipped bullets. There are even partition tipped bullets.

The tip and the gap behind it are meant to start an instant rupture, and they do a great job of that. An ordinary soft point has to be compressed to start the mushroom. The tipped bullets work more like a conventional pistol hollow point, allowing fluids to pop the lead open.

From the first, when nosler released the BT, they sold it as a deer or smaller thing, and expected people to use the partition for others.

The BT, since it was just another cup and core tended to get overheated at times and not retain full weight for penetration, and it opened up and dumped a lot of energy before it reached vital areas. Energy dump is fine, but if it happens in a big old ruminant's gut full of forage, you lost it.

so yes, the broadside hit with a BT is a wonderful thing, but there needs to be a more reliable and deeper wound channel, rather than a very wide and bloodshot one.

Now, nosler has refined the BT to the level that it's almost perfect. The tapered core will prevent failure to expand, and should prevent it from coming to pieces at extreme velocities.

I used to get really involved in debates about various things. two of them can be pretty much set aside. First, there's no point in heated debate between either the .308 or 30-06. Second, no matter what bullet you get, it can still fail, and maybe the other bullet would have done better. pick a bullet with a good design and take your best shot.
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