Question about Thumb Safety

[T. O'Heir]

You like a proper standard transmission or an automatic? Either way you have to learn to use 'em correctly. A pistol with or without a manual safety is the same thing. Buy the pistol that fits your hand the best and learn how to use it.
"...can be an issue in a SD situation..." You learn how to deal with that too.

[cw308]

As people mentioned , proper training in different situation with the gun you carry. Also putting the firearm back in the holster after a stressful situation is an important step in training. Nothing wrong with safety's , just learn how to use them .

[RKG]

If I had encountered this thread earlier, I would have asked the OP what risk he thought the thumb safety mitigated? Intentional trigger pull by someone else? Not all that effective. Unintentional trigger pull by OP? Training issue -- particularly if the OP has trained himself to reflexively thumb the safety off on draw. Drop or other firearm malfunction?

The third category is what thumb safeties were originally intended to deal with, at a time when single action pistols were capable of discharging as a result of a jar off, a sear failure, or being dropped so that the trigger pressed itself (via momentum). In point of fact, the design of the M&P auto (which, in fact, is a single action pistol) largely covers these risks via the firing pin block and the hinged (and light weight) trigger.

Now, I'm not against thumb safeties (or manual safeties in general) when they serve a purpose. I always use the thumb safety when holstering a Gov't Model or P35, and a routinely use the manual safety on an M1 or M14. But unless I'm missing something, I don't see the risk reduction accomplished by using the thumb safety on an M&P auto.

[RickB]

Intentional trigger pull by someone else? Not all that effective.

Would you elaborate, a little?

If the safety is engaged and someone pulls the trigger, the gun won't fire; seems like a pretty desirable situation if someone else is doing the pulling?

You're assuming that the someone has the awareness to know or discover that the gun won't fire because it has a safety, then identify and properly manipulate the safety, then shoot the gun, and all the while I'm just standing there watching and waiting?

[TunnelRat]

I think people put far too much faith in a safety stopping someone from shooting them with their own pistol. Has it happened? Sure. People also win the lottery. That's no guarantee if I run to the store right now and buy a ticket that it will be a winning one. Safeties, while something, aren't specifically designed to be hard to locate or hard to manipulate. That would make the pistol rather pointless. Will it maybe buy you a second? Maybe. You're also assuming that in a struggle for a weapon, where as you correctly pointed out you won't just stand there, that the safety itself hasn't been manipulated to the off position from two people struggling to control the pistol. Or how about you yourself had manipulated the safety off because you were bringing the pistol up in an effort to fire? The goal is to prevent a gun grab situation in the first place. There are a lot of techniques designed around this, and any of them I'd have more faith in than hoping my attacker is a slow learner. Even once the grab happens there are still techniques that can be applied.

[RETG]

Unless your infallible someone else will probably gain access to your gun eventually. (Not sure how to quote a text on this forum.)

Really? I have carried a handgun in conditions, in foreign countries that most people cannot pronounce the name. And every time I left whatever type of abode I called home at that time, or when back in the states my house or office; I never ONCE thought about someone gaining control of my firearm.

And no one ever did. I have been shot and never lost control of a firearm; I had my left arm broken with a steel pipe and was still able to pull and control my firearm and defend myself.

Can it happen, sure it can, but if you know what you are doing, what the immediate threat is, it makes it next to impossible. But if it worries a person that they will lose control of their firearm, or if a person is worried about an unintentional discharge due to not having an operating safety, then maybe, it is time to think about carrying something, other than a firearm. Just my .03 cents.

[jmr40]

I'm quite familiar with 1911's and like that type of safety. I also am quite fond of Glocks and don't have any issue with that type of gun with no safety as long as it is carried in a proper holster. But there are situations, such as night stand duty, where I feel better with a safety on a pistol.

Glocks, M&P's, and most all striker fired guns leave the factory with a 5-6 lb trigger. Almost exactly the same as a common factory 1911. No one would recommend a 1911 be used without the safety engaged. I sure wouldn't want to reach in the nightstand for a gun in the dark with a trigger that light with no safety engaged. And since the safety on the M&P functions just like a 1911 I can live with it. I don't like the safeties used on most DA/SA pistols that also serve as decockers such as the Beretta or traditional Smith pistols.

There is no law that you have to use it. But it is there and the ones with safety don't cost any more than the others. If I were sold on the M&P the version with the safety is the only one I'd buy. If no safety just get a Glock.

[Danoobie]

I would say whatever safety paradigm you get, be sure to get a holster which
securely covers the entire trigger and trigger guard. I prefer a safety, but it's a
personal decision. I also have very good SA, and don't live in Beirut.

[RickB]

I've never seen a parked car roll away, but I always set the parking brake.

[Cheapshooter]

I've never seen a parked car roll away, but I always set the parking brake.

But I have had the emergency brake cable freeze up, and lock the rear wheels not allowing me to use the vehicle!
That's why I don't want a safety on my carry guns.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Personally, I prefer a Glock for EDC, so no safety. I've been carrying them since 1994 ish, and compete with them all time and train with them. Thus, I feel I have a good sense of finger/trigger issues. I also carry DA revolvers with no safety.

They have a heavier trigger pull but research shows that if your finger is on the trigger and you have a startle, trip, etc. you will activate a DA trigger. So that's a mixed bag and it's the same for a TDA semi.

I shoot a 1911 quite bit. So I understand its safety quite well. I don't carry it because of size. I wouldn't have a qualm about carrying it if it were my only choice. My caveat about that safety is that sometimes even trained folks don't flip it under stress. Seen it a few times.

The answer is practice with the system you chose.

[Lohman446]

I have been seeing more and more the point of "buy one gun, practice with it, and carry it" and the concerns with a carry "rotation" With that said pick one set of controls (be it with a safety in one direction or the other or without) and commit to it as your carry weapon(s).

Which you pick is not, IMO, vital.

[RickB]

I've never seen a parked car roll away, but I always set the parking brake.

But I have had the emergency brake cable freeze up, and lock the rear wheels not allowing me to use the vehicle!
That's whay I don't want a safety on my carry guns.

That's pretty weak.
I've seen a broken trigger, so, I should want a carry gun without a trigger?
I had a magazine with a weak spring, so, I should shoot my carry gun single-shot?
I draw the line at putting no ammo in my carry gun because one time I had a round with no powder.

[Cheapshooter]

That's pretty weak.
I've seen a broken trigger, so, I should want a carry gun without a trigger?
I had a magazine with a weak spring, so, I should shoot my carry gun single-shot?
I draw the line at putting no ammo in my carry gun because one time I had a round with no powder.

Not weak at all. There are a lot more things that can go wrong than the very unlikely case of a broken safety. Stress, called "buck fever" in the deer woods. Where you are so stressed, and full of adrenaline that you don't even flip the safety off. Believe me it happens to some of the most experienced hunters. There stress is only putting meat on the table, or a trophy on the wall.
Again, missing the safety lever and in the stress of a confrontation not even noticing it. Or just plane slipping off of it because of sweaty hands.
If a person feels they need a safety, by all means get a gun with one. Myself, I feel safer without the extra step in the process of deploying a firearm in a self defense emergency.

[Brit]

In spending quite a few years shooting Colt 45 1911 pistols in IPSC competitions, the on-off thumb safety became automatic.

Till a State IPSC match, in Norfolk Virginia. Several years ago. One of the courses of fire had you carrying a pretend Pizza in your right hand like a waiter would carry a tray.

Opening a door caused a target array, two targets, to come off the floor, swing up at you, and down to the ground, in front of you. Definitely doable.

I watched it done! But when you miss disengaging the thumb safety? Big fail.
I carried a lightweight Colt Commander as an EDC. We had just picked up Glock 17s, direct from Austria then. That became my match/carry gun right then. Now a Glock 19 4th Gen.

I had fired thousands of rounds from the holster with 1911s up to that time, with no problems, but a nod is as good as a wink to a blind donkey.
So to speak. A good Kydex holster is a must with a Glock, that hides the trigger.

[cw308]

I have switched from carrying with a round in the chamber an hammer down on my 1911 to no round in the chamber having to rack the slide . Safety an not the safety on the gun , the odds of a accidental round going off is much higher then a situation of having to use deadly force. Be aware of your surroundings .

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Let's not divert to the unchambered carry issue in this thread. Let's stay on TOPIC.

If you want to debate chambered vs. unchambered, search and refer to the endless threads on that topic.

[TailGator]

Glocks, M&P's, and most all striker fired guns leave the factory with a 5-6 lb trigger. Almost exactly the same as a common factory 1911. No one would recommend a 1911 be used without the safety engaged

But the length of pull matters, too. I'm another who is comfortable with the Glock trigger in a holster or a drawer.

I have pistols with no thumb safety, frame-mounted safety, slide-mounted safety, up to fire, down to fire. They all work fine if you work with them enough to be familiar. And honestly, switching between them isn't a problem, either, with enough familiarity.

[Brit]

Tail Gater, I beg to differ, under a heavy shot of adrenalin, given a few different switches, and catches on concealed carry pistols, fumbles happen. That can get you killed.

I missed a 1911 Colt 45, safety catch, in an IPSC match, a pistol I had drawn and fired a thousand times! And not concealed in this instance. Pushing for maximum speed!

[Carl the Floor Walker]

I have trained with safeties all my life. However when pocketguns started to become mainstream and I started carrying, most had long double action triggers. I adjusted fine, some were excessive however.
Then this new fad of light crisp triggers came out, I said hell no. Just too unsafe period.
I found a model that had a great but strong double action and have had great success shooting for accuracy and feel secure in safely CCW/
I have been looking for Months at different guns to make a move from my LC9S. I love the gun, great quality, feels good, shoots great. But the trigger is crazy light. It really started getting to me. And mine has a safety.
But the gun has this crazy first stage free play that feels like the trigger spring is broke. The next stage is short and light. Mine is about 4.1-4.5lbs of pull. It is short before you get quickly get that BANG! Short light and crisp. Sorry, not for me.
In high stress with adrenaline flowing, your muscles naturally tightening up and a tendency to put your finger on the trigger which many cops say they do, would be extremely dangerous. Regardless, it is too light for carry, I will not do it.
Finally found a perfect gun and a perfect trigger. The Beretta Nano. No safety, designed for fast action, great size for carry. Man I love this trigger. Long, but no were near excessive. It has a definite feel, and the 7lbs of pull actually feels much lighter. Very smooth.
Had it out for the first time at the range and it ran great. Actually shoots better for me than my LC9S which I have had for years.
Yes, I would say, train with a safety, or get a nice double action. IMO.

[arquebus357]

I'm afraid the industry is promoting safetyless handguns. Take Ruger for example, you have the RAP available with a safety and you have the "PRO" model without the safety. What red blooded American shooter isn't going to pick the PRO model ? ( I didn't and promptly loped off the right side safety lever)
I know, I know picking the safety equipped RAP make me a rank amatuer so I never take it to the range for fear of being ridiculed by the "pros". Lucky for me, I'm not addicted to the smell of burned gun powder so I just go to ranges for testing purposes. I usually get there early before the "pros" show up.

[RETG]

As others have noted it is a personal choice. If you don't place your finger on the trigger it won't fire. If you have a good fitting holster designed for the exact gun your are carrying, it will not fire.

[adamBomb]

I much prefer a safety on striker fired pistols. I don't really want to join the 'glock leg' club so a safety is a must for my carry guns. If you are interested in joining their club just do a google search of them. Tons of experienced professionals and average joes have joined because they made a simple mistake 1 out of 10000 times. But maybe you will never make one. Ever lost your keys or wallet? Ever walked into a room and forgotten why you are there?

[jonb32248]

You don't have to use it but you have it available for the times you might need it. There are times you will.

[Carl the Floor Walker]

Originally Posted by RETG

As others have noted it is a personal choice. If you don't place your finger on the trigger it won't fire. If you have a good fitting holster designed for the exact gun your are carrying, it will not fire.

Man that sounds great in a ideal world, but not reality. I would bet many people that say that and put in a situation of life and death, and your Adrenalin is red zoned and you truly think you are about to be killed, you will go to the trigger. Just a normal reaction. Your hand and fingers with tighten up from this immense fright.

"
For example, we know that even experienced, highly trained people tend to trigger check under stress. They don't squeeze the trigger with all their might, but they contact it. Very often this happens when drawing the gun on an unidentified subject. I can't tell you how many officers I've met who've relayed stories of people they would have shot -- sometimes unjustifiably -- if their trigger had been a few pounds lighter and needed half as much movement to discharge. The lighter and shorter the trigger, especially in the absence of an engaged safety, the greater the likelihood of an accident."



Light triggers and short resets seem to be the rage with the internet. I train with a safety and have my whole life. However, for carry I like a longer trigger pull and a stronger trigger. In fact just bought a new CCW 9mm to replace one that had a trigger advertised as "short light and crisp". For years now something inside my head kept saying. WARNING!!!
Found a great 9mm, actually shoot it better and much safer. What a new peace of mind it has brought.
If you feel that you have nerves made of steel, will not ever touch the trigger, and want a light trigger than great. However I would not advise anyone that does not have those nerves to do so.
And this internet JARGON of "The best safety is the one between your ears" is correct. And if that brain between your ears is smart enough to tell you to not use a light trigger without a safety or get a longer pull with a stronger trigger then listen to it.
You cannot take back a bullet.

PS I have never bought into this nonsense of riding a reset.