Brake choices for 9mm carbine?

Double Naught Spy · May 18, 2005, 09:15 AM

Without going into the fact that 9mm carbines don't have a lot of recoil or muzzle rise, they certainly do have some and it is enough to slow down one's rate of fire when trying to put several rounds on a small target at relatively longer distances, say 50 yards. The slight muzzle jump and then sight re-alignment becomes terribly slow when shooting against somebody with something like an AR15 that is fully compensated and has virtually no muzzle jump.

So, I am trying to track down information on what types of compensators/brakes work well with 9mm carbines (expecially for a Beretta Storm), or if there are other or better options available such as porting or some sort of counter weight.

Any suggestions? If not, any ideas on where I might be able to track down relevant information?

Thanks!

Terry Twit · May 18, 2005, 09:25 AM

The Storm's rise is not going to be affected by a compensator, because it's caused by that heavy-ass bolt banging back and forth in the receiver. You aren't going to have enough gas pressure left at the muzzle of a 9mm carbine to do any good with a compensator anyway.

This is one reason I tossed my Storm for a Colt 9mm. I could not shoot my Storm this fast - (and believe me, the suppressor makes NO difference whatsoever.) This is supersonic ammo, which is why it's so loud.

http://sniper.rsvs.net/smoke.MOV

Double Naught Spy · May 18, 2005, 07:23 PM

Really? That is amazing. So the muzzle brakes on AR15s in 9mm with the 16 barrels do absolutely nothing because there isn't enough pressure left in them either?

Sorry, I am having trouble with your physics. If rise is caused by the movement of the heavy bolt, I don't see how movement in opposite directions (back and forth as you noted) both cause muzzle rise. The forces would offset. No doubt not being quite equal, they would not equally offset. The bolt moving forward would, no doubt, be moving with a little less force than what caused it to move backwards.

So just what is it you think that caused the heavy-ass bolt to move backwards?

Supersonic ammo can be louder than subsonic, no doubt, but compared to .223, it is still a popgun when it comes to the noise. To be honest, I don't notice that big of a difference between supersonic and subsonic ammo fired from the same unsilenced gun by me.

shaggy · May 18, 2005, 07:46 PM

I've never even seen a brake for a 9mm AR15/M16. And maybe thats because there really is negligible muzzle rise to contend with in a 9mm. Unless you're weak as a kitten, there really is no need for a brake on a 9mm. What you see on the end of most 9mm AR15s and M16s is just a flash suppressor, not a brake. Even in full auto the muzzle rise of a 9mm carbine is next to nothing. I've shot all types of full auto 9mm weapons and never seen a brake on one - Uzis, Colt 635 and 633/DOE SMGs, MP5's, MPi69s and MPi81s, Stens, Sterlings, Port Saids, S&W 76 and MK760's, MP40's, MAC/M11's, and there's probably a few I'm still forgetting. None are particularly difficult to control, even in full auto, without a brake.

Terry Twit · May 18, 2005, 09:54 PM

Well, here's the same gun running subsonic, as you can see it's a lot quieter. www.gcfirearms.com/9mmsilent2.wmv

To address your question,

Quote:

Really? That is amazing. So the muzzle brakes on AR15s in 9mm with the 16 barrels do absolutely nothing because there isn't enough pressure left in them either?

Correct. Besides, they aren't brakes, they're flash suppressors...which are totally unnecessary on a 9mm as well.

Quote:

Sorry, I am having trouble with your physics. If rise is caused by the movement of the heavy bolt, I don't see how movement in opposite directions (back and forth as you noted) both cause muzzle rise. The forces would offset. No doubt not being quite equal, they would not equally offset. The bolt moving forward would, no doubt, be moving with a little less force than what caused it to move backwards.

So just what is it you think that caused the heavy-ass bolt to move backwards?

Recoil. And as you aptly noted, the force blowing it BACK is stronger than the force throwing it forward.

Quote:

Supersonic ammo can be louder than subsonic, no doubt, but compared to .223, it is still a popgun when it comes to the noise. To be honest, I don't notice that big of a difference between supersonic and subsonic ammo fired from the same unsilenced gun by me.

Different subject, but you haven't fired much subsonic vs supersonic suppressed then. The ballistic crack is clearly audible even without the suppressor.

Handy · May 18, 2005, 10:58 PM

Concur.

By the time a 9mm round gets to the end of a 16" barrel it is largely coasting - the gas pressure is very low. There's a reason no military issue subgun comes with a flashhider, even in a 9 inch barrel - there's very little hot gas left. If there isn't enough to make a flash, there certainly isn't enough to make a brake effective.

If you just want to throw out money, I'm sure a smith would be happy to thread your barrel for a 9mm pistol muzzle brake. But don't do it if the rifle is an import - threads are illegal.

May 18, 2005, 09:15 AM	#1
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,717	Brake choices for 9mm carbine? Without going into the fact that 9mm carbines don't have a lot of recoil or muzzle rise, they certainly do have some and it is enough to slow down one's rate of fire when trying to put several rounds on a small target at relatively longer distances, say 50 yards. The slight muzzle jump and then sight re-alignment becomes terribly slow when shooting against somebody with something like an AR15 that is fully compensated and has virtually no muzzle jump. So, I am trying to track down information on what types of compensators/brakes work well with 9mm carbines (expecially for a Beretta Storm), or if there are other or better options available such as porting or some sort of counter weight. Any suggestions? If not, any ideas on where I might be able to track down relevant information? Thanks! __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

May 18, 2005, 07:23 PM	#3
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,717	Really? That is amazing. So the muzzle brakes on AR15s in 9mm with the 16 barrels do absolutely nothing because there isn't enough pressure left in them either? Sorry, I am having trouble with your physics. If rise is caused by the movement of the heavy bolt, I don't see how movement in opposite directions (back and forth as you noted) both cause muzzle rise. The forces would offset. No doubt not being quite equal, they would not equally offset. The bolt moving forward would, no doubt, be moving with a little less force than what caused it to move backwards. So just what is it you think that caused the heavy-ass bolt to move backwards? Supersonic ammo can be louder than subsonic, no doubt, but compared to .223, it is still a popgun when it comes to the noise. To be honest, I don't notice that big of a difference between supersonic and subsonic ammo fired from the same unsilenced gun by me. __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

May 18, 2005, 07:46 PM	#4
shaggy Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2004 Posts: 1,519	I've never even seen a brake for a 9mm AR15/M16. And maybe thats because there really is negligible muzzle rise to contend with in a 9mm. Unless you're weak as a kitten, there really is no need for a brake on a 9mm. What you see on the end of most 9mm AR15s and M16s is just a flash suppressor, not a brake. Even in full auto the muzzle rise of a 9mm carbine is next to nothing. I've shot all types of full auto 9mm weapons and never seen a brake on one - Uzis, Colt 635 and 633/DOE SMGs, MP5's, MPi69s and MPi81s, Stens, Sterlings, Port Saids, S&W 76 and MK760's, MP40's, MAC/M11's, and there's probably a few I'm still forgetting. None are particularly difficult to control, even in full auto, without a brake. Last edited by shaggy; May 18, 2005 at 10:26 PM.

May 18, 2005, 09:25 AM	#2
Terry Twit Junior member Join Date: April 25, 2005 Posts: 61	The Storm's rise is not going to be affected by a compensator, because it's caused by that heavy-ass bolt banging back and forth in the receiver. You aren't going to have enough gas pressure left at the muzzle of a 9mm carbine to do any good with a compensator anyway. This is one reason I tossed my Storm for a Colt 9mm. I could not shoot my Storm this fast - (and believe me, the suppressor makes NO difference whatsoever.) This is supersonic ammo, which is why it's so loud. http://sniper.rsvs.net/smoke.MOV

May 18, 2005, 10:58 PM	#6
Handy Junior member Join Date: August 31, 2001 Posts: 8,785	Concur. By the time a 9mm round gets to the end of a 16" barrel it is largely coasting - the gas pressure is very low. There's a reason no military issue subgun comes with a flashhider, even in a 9 inch barrel - there's very little hot gas left. If there isn't enough to make a flash, there certainly isn't enough to make a brake effective. If you just want to throw out money, I'm sure a smith would be happy to thread your barrel for a 9mm pistol muzzle brake. But don't do it if the rifle is an import - threads are illegal.