Cleaning after Bear Creek bullets - Page 2

jetinteriorguy · June 13, 2021, 11:52 AM

I’m trying an experiment. I picked up some corks and have plugged one of my barrels, filled with MEK and plugged the chamber to let it soak. I’ve also picked up some more Acetone to try if the MEK doesn’t work. I’ll post results.

**Unclenick** · June 13, 2021, 01:40 PM

Good luck with it. I hadn't bought a paint stripper for a while, and I see they now have epoxy paint strippers with no methylene chloride and that rinse off with water, so if your solvents don't work, that option is available.

jetinteriorguy · June 13, 2021, 02:32 PM

That’s what I was thinking. I also decided to do the same routine but use acetone in the other barrel. I’m going to soak them overnight and see what happens. If no success then I’m going to try a stripper. I’ve been researching them and some will remove both epoxy paint and polyurethane so I’m thinking this would be the best bet. You can still get strippers that contain methylene chloride but only in larger quantities and hazardous shipping plus the high cost of the stripper makes it out of the question.

jetinteriorguy · June 13, 2021, 02:41 PM

Another thought I had would to maybe mix up some Ed’s Red and see if that works.

Mike38 · June 13, 2021, 05:38 PM

I see on the Bear Creek web site they use the words "molybdenum-disulfide".

https://www.bearcreeksupplybullets.com/aboutourbullets

cdoc42 · June 14, 2021, 06:54 AM

This section of the link offered by Mike38 poses a question related my previously described experience:

"Our customers have fired thousands of rounds through various guns without ever cleaning the bore, or needing to. When you use our bullets and the right load combination, you'll be surprised at how clean the bore stays. Run a dry patch or two through it after use and you might never need to do anything else. You can brush the bore with a brass brush, but this is usually unnecessary."

If I run a dry patch through any of my guns after firing, the patch will be black to some degree, due to carbon from powder burn. If this coating is moly, that, too, imparts a black coating on the patch. That one "might never need to do anything else" raises the question of what might one need to do? And what is expected of the use of a brass brush?

"For these reasons, one of the biggest advantages of using BCS bullets is cleanliness. Clean to handle, clean to load, clean to use. The small amount of black you get on your fingers is harmless, and this molybdenum-disulfide washes off easily and is a good reminder that using BCS bullets will keep everything else clean."

This is exactly what I experienced with my moly'd bullets - it washed off easily from my fingers, but I could never wash it off the barrel bore, and over time, I think it accumulated to adversely affect the accuracy.

jetinteriorguy · June 14, 2021, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdoc42

This section of the link offered by Mike38 poses a question related my previously described experience:

"Our customers have fired thousands of rounds through various guns without ever cleaning the bore, or needing to. When you use our bullets and the right load combination, you'll be surprised at how clean the bore stays. Run a dry patch or two through it after use and you might never need to do anything else. You can brush the bore with a brass brush, but this is usually unnecessary."

If I run a dry patch through any of my guns after firing, the patch will be black to some degree, due to carbon from powder burn. If this coating is moly, that, too, imparts a black coating on the patch. That one "might never need to do anything else" raises the question of what might one need to do? And what is expected of the use of a brass brush?

"For these reasons, one of the biggest advantages of using BCS bullets is cleanliness. Clean to handle, clean to load, clean to use. The small amount of black you get on your fingers is harmless, and this molybdenum-disulfide washes off easily and is a good reminder that using BCS bullets will keep everything else clean."

This is exactly what I experienced with my moly'd bullets - it washed off easily from my fingers, but I could never wash it off the barrel bore, and over time, I think it accumulated to adversely affect the accuracy.

This is what I’m afraid of, I don’t want to ruin my guns because of this issue. I tried some paint stripper this morning but it had absolutely no affect on it whatsoever. So far the only thing that’s helped a little has been soaking it in acetone with both ends of the barrel plugged.

cdoc42 · June 14, 2021, 09:30 AM

Unclenick hasn't had a problem and maybe his technique plays a role. As he stated:

"I never had an issue with the NECO process. I still have a lot of bullets coated with it, but I do clean it out after every range session. Bore Tech makes a special moly cleaner called Moly Magic that seems to work well, but so does Carbon Killer."

I certainly did not clean the 7STW after every range session, so maybe I contributed to the problem. I still have a bunch of moly'd pistol bullets that I have run through the vib cleaner several times but the moly won't completely come off. So I'm afraid to use them. I will, however, get some Moly Magic and see what happens!!!

Jim Watson · June 14, 2021, 09:38 AM

The stuff Bear Creek uses may contain molybdenum sulfide, but it isn't straight MoS2 like the NECO powder Unclenick finds satisfactory.
I think the fouling is whatever paint-like carrier they use.

jetinteriorguy · June 14, 2021, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdoc42

Unclenick hasn't had a problem and maybe his technique plays a role. As he stated:

"I never had an issue with the NECO process. I still have a lot of bullets coated with it, but I do clean it out after every range session. Bore Tech makes a special moly cleaner called Moly Magic that seems to work well, but so does Carbon Killer."

I certainly did not clean the 7STW after every range session, so maybe I contributed to the problem. I still have a bunch of moly'd pistol bullets that I have run through the vib cleaner several times but the moly won't completely come off. So I'm afraid to use them. I will, however, get some Moly Magic and see what happens!!!

I ordered some of the Boretec Moly Magic, it gets good reviews and sounds like just the ticket. Once I get this figured out I’m just going to designate one gun to use up the bullets I have on hand, then no more for me. The thousand I have for my .38/.357 I’m just going to sell. I’m simply not going to fool with these bullets, too bad since they shoot very well.

cdoc42 · June 14, 2021, 11:19 AM

Jim Watson,
"The stuff Bear Creek uses may contain molybdenum sulfide, but it isn't straight MoS2 like the NECO powder Unclenick finds satisfactory.
I think the fouling is whatever paint-like carrier they use."

But Mike38 said "I see on the Bear Creek web site they use the words "molybdenum-disulfide". (MoS2)

**Unclenick** · June 14, 2021, 11:39 AM

I didn't read their description down far enough to spot the mention of moly. I figured when they said "proprietary" at the top, they were done with the reveal. It's going to turn out to be a mix, I'm pretty sure, much like the Brownells spray paint finishes that include moly. Polymer moly blend. May be other things in it.

I think you identified the problem you had with moly. When it first started to be used (I got on board in the early '90s) the fact it cut copper fouling way down caused a lot of folks to think they could skip cleaning for a whole season. But reports over time were that it can create little bumps of moly on the bore surface if it is allowed to accumulate long enough.

Slip2000 Carbon Killer is another possible cleaning attack. It's strong, so I use it judiciously, but for something stubborn, it might fly.

I'm surprised the paint stripper did nothing. I wish we could get a borescope image, as I've never tried these bullets myself.

jetinteriorguy · June 14, 2021, 02:38 PM

I’m sure it’s some sort of blend containing moly as well. I tried another thing that may hold some promise. I sprayed the bore in my M&P with PB Blaster and after a few hours of soaking it put a pretty good dent in getting the coating out. So I sprayed it down again and will let it soak overnight and see what happens.

**Unclenick** · June 15, 2021, 07:59 AM

There's one YouTube test that suggests good old Liquid Wrench is actually more effective than PB or other penetrants. But PB has other stuff in it and shares a chemical scent with some of the old carb cleaners. I have no way to know if penetration or the action of that other stuff is responsible for your success. Let us know if the longer soak solves it.

Metal god · June 15, 2021, 09:31 AM

Am I wrong in thinking if acetone and paint stripper don't take it off none of those types of products will , it's clearly not that type of residue . The one product I'm surprised how well is takes "some" coatings off is Goo Gone or any citrus based cleaners . On some things it doesn't seem to work at all and other things the citrus cleaners work where nothing else will . It's weird actually but they do have there place , just a thought .

To add , I had always been told NEVER shoot your lead fouling out of the barrel with jacketed bullets . Well the other day I was getting more lead biuld up then I ever have seen in a revolver ( 44 mag ) so I shot 1 full throttle jacketed bullet through the fouled barrel . The result was a bore that looked like I just cleaned it . I mean the bore was like a mirror again . Based on what was talked about earlier am I to assume you can't see the build up that is happening when shooting jacketed after lead ?

Also now that I think about it I've been shooting guns for 40+ years and have on numerous occasions shot jacketed after lead or vise versa . Not a lot because most of the time I'll shoot the same type of bullet through out a range trip but there has been many times over a 40 year span I've had both on the bench/table at the same time .

Is this a don't "only" shoot jacketed after lead to clean your bore while never actually properly cleaning the bore ? Or is this a we don't recommend it but if you do make sure you properly clean your bore after ?

jetinteriorguy · June 15, 2021, 10:33 AM

Well, here’s today’s results. Basically soaking with acetone had very little if any affect. The PB Blaster seems to have gotten about half of the buildup out. At this point I’m just going to wait for the Moly Magic to get here and hopefully finish cleaning these barrels up. Just for the fun of it I think I’ll order some Lee Liquid Alox and just tumble some bullets in it to see if that helps. At least I could use up the 1600 bullets I have left.

cdoc42 · June 15, 2021, 03:38 PM

Here's surprise. I have bullets that I Neco-moly'd at least 15 years ago. I put 6 each of a generic .38 Cal, 158gr LSWC and Speer 200gr LSWC in a plastic urine specimen cup with 3/4-oz of Birchwood Casey No. 77 "Muzzle Magic" and 1/4-oz Gunzilla. It made a pink solution. I shook them up and left them stand overnight. I just now removed them, wiped them dry with a cotton rag and every bit of moly is gone. The solution is still pink but the rag is black.

Previously I had Vib-cleaned others in corn cob media with Lyman Turbo-Cleaan Brass polish for 2 hours, and had ZERO results.

Next I'll try to soak them overnight, then Vib-tumble, to see if I can save myself the effort of hand-wiping them.

jetinteriorguy · June 16, 2021, 04:27 PM

The Moly Magic arrived today and so far I’m seeing some results. Just going with the basic first time cleaning instructions my M&P barrel came about 90% clean in less than half an hour. The same time frame cleaned probably a little over half the crud out of my CZ75 barrel.
So my next step is to saturate the barrels, cork them up, and let them soak overnight. This is very encouraging. Seems weird but it smells more like a soap than a solvent/penetrant.

cdoc42 · June 16, 2021, 08:11 PM

" This is very encouraging. Seems weird but it smells more like a soap than a solvent/penetrant."

This makes me wonder if the laundry soap that removed it from my hands is simply a different chemical surfactant than what's in "Moly Magic" or the combo I described.

jetinteriorguy · June 17, 2021, 10:38 AM

Soaking the bores overnight has helped, so far I’m soaking, scrubbing with a bronze brush, then followed by dry patches, then soaking and starting the process over again. Each time things get a little cleaner, so it’s a bit of a process but it’s working. At this point I have about 90%+ cleaned out so not much more and they’ll be all nice and clean. For me at least I’m taking two things from this experience, first of all no more Bear Creek Moly coated bullets for me, and second is that the Moly Magic cleaner does it’s job given enough time and work. Others experience may be more positive and good for them, just not my experience. Even though they cost more I’m going back to my old reliable Xtreme copper coated bullets.

RickB · June 17, 2021, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Bear Creek uses a Moly coating? I did not know that.

It's a polymer coating, of which one component is moly. I knew a local guy with a bullet business, who sold it to Black Bullets International, and he said his coating had twelve ingredients.

cdoc42 · June 18, 2021, 07:25 AM

There's a good article in the July issue of Guns &Ammo, entitled "Barrel Care."

Among the things discussed, use a plastic-coated rod, not the metal 2-3-piece rods. Do not use stainless steel brushes, and in small-bore rifles, a wire brush will wear out the rifle throat quickly. Studies done by Hornady with .17 HMR showed accuracy loss after 1500 rounds when routinely brush-cleaned. Copper solvent and no brushing increased that to 7500 rounds. I now routinely only use nylon brushes.

**Unclenick** · June 18, 2021, 07:43 AM

Jetinteriorguy,

Glad the MM is working.

Cdoc42,

You've reminded me Gunzilla might also have done it all by itself. It can be slow, but a good penetrant. I'd forgotten that the first time I tried it (samples were being given away at Camp Perry then, as it was a new product) I had a stubborn carbon/moly ring at the end of my match AR chamber in the corner of the step at the end of the chamber neck to the freebore that no amount of brushing, abrasive cleaner or conventional bore solvent would get out. I put some Gunzilla in and got distracted and left it for 24 hours. When I pushed a dry patch through the next day it came out with this little carbon ring on it. The borescope showed the stubborn spot was gone.

So that little corner I'd forgotten about was the one instance where moly-coated bullets caused me bother, though plain old carbon can build up there, too. It was mostly psychological trouble, as the black ring didn't seem to affect accuracy, but I didn't like it being there and was glad to have found a way to remove it.

I'm also reminded that Hummer70 recently told me that ZEP 505 will get under and lift the asphaltum sealant off pulled military bullets in just under 24 hours. It might be another agent that would make it possible to patch this Bear Creek stuff out.

Jim Watson · June 18, 2021, 07:56 AM

Quote:

It's a polymer coating, of which one component is moly. I knew a local guy with a bullet business, who sold it to Black Bullets International, and he said his coating had twelve ingredients.

Was that Ranger Bullets? They looked like Bear Creek and early BBI. I shot some of those in .38 Special and they did ok.
The same stuff on early BBI was ok in .45 ACP but gave me a mess similar to OP's at higher velocity in 9mm.
BBI got smart and went to Hi Tek.

Quote:

I think I’ll order some Lee Liquid Alox and just tumble some bullets in it to see if that helps.

I salvaged those first generation BBI 9mms with LLA-JPW-MS.
Lee Liquid Alox, Johnson's Paste Wax, mineral spirits. The usual formulation is equal parts of Alox and wax, 10% mineral spirits, hence 45-45-10.
I thinned it a lot more with more mineral spirits.
Just put some bullets in a Ziplock bag, dribble in some lube mix, and roll around until coated. I dumped mine out on a sheet of wax paper in a hot garage to dry.

jetinteriorguy · June 18, 2021, 01:52 PM

Thanks everyone, I’ve cleaned probably about 96%+ out of all four of these guns and that seems like all that’s going to come out. At the end I used a couple applications of Slip 2000 Carbon Killer for the final cleaning followed by a thin application of Slip 2000 lube to the bore then one final dry patch. The dry patch came through completely clean with just small traces of the Moly coating in the corners of the grooves left. I’m thinking this small trace amount will probably come out with shooting copper plated bullets through the barrels.

June 13, 2021, 01:40 PM	#27
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	Good luck with it. I hadn't bought a paint stripper for a while, and I see they now have epoxy paint strippers with no methylene chloride and that rinse off with water, so if your solvents don't work, that option is available. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

June 14, 2021, 11:39 AM	#37
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	I didn't read their description down far enough to spot the mention of moly. I figured when they said "proprietary" at the top, they were done with the reveal. It's going to turn out to be a mix, I'm pretty sure, much like the Brownells spray paint finishes that include moly. Polymer moly blend. May be other things in it. I think you identified the problem you had with moly. When it first started to be used (I got on board in the early '90s) the fact it cut copper fouling way down caused a lot of folks to think they could skip cleaning for a whole season. But reports over time were that it can create little bumps of moly on the bore surface if it is allowed to accumulate long enough. Slip2000 Carbon Killer is another possible cleaning attack. It's strong, so I use it judiciously, but for something stubborn, it might fly. I'm surprised the paint stripper did nothing. I wish we could get a borescope image, as I've never tried these bullets myself. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

June 15, 2021, 07:59 AM	#39
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	There's one YouTube test that suggests good old Liquid Wrench is actually more effective than PB or other penetrants. But PB has other stuff in it and shares a chemical scent with some of the old carb cleaners. I have no way to know if penetration or the action of that other stuff is responsible for your success. Let us know if the longer soak solves it. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

June 15, 2021, 09:31 AM	#40
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 6,875	Am I wrong in thinking if acetone and paint stripper don't take it off none of those types of products will , it's clearly not that type of residue . The one product I'm surprised how well is takes "some" coatings off is Goo Gone or any citrus based cleaners . On some things it doesn't seem to work at all and other things the citrus cleaners work where nothing else will . It's weird actually but they do have there place , just a thought . To add , I had always been told NEVER shoot your lead fouling out of the barrel with jacketed bullets . Well the other day I was getting more lead biuld up then I ever have seen in a revolver ( 44 mag ) so I shot 1 full throttle jacketed bullet through the fouled barrel . The result was a bore that looked like I just cleaned it . I mean the bore was like a mirror again . Based on what was talked about earlier am I to assume you can't see the build up that is happening when shooting jacketed after lead ? Also now that I think about it I've been shooting guns for 40+ years and have on numerous occasions shot jacketed after lead or vise versa . Not a lot because most of the time I'll shoot the same type of bullet through out a range trip but there has been many times over a 40 year span I've had both on the bench/table at the same time . Is this a don't "only" shoot jacketed after lead to clean your bore while never actually properly cleaning the bore ? Or is this a we don't recommend it but if you do make sure you properly clean your bore after ? __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again .

June 18, 2021, 07:43 AM	#48
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	Jetinteriorguy, Glad the MM is working. Cdoc42, You've reminded me Gunzilla might also have done it all by itself. It can be slow, but a good penetrant. I'd forgotten that the first time I tried it (samples were being given away at Camp Perry then, as it was a new product) I had a stubborn carbon/moly ring at the end of my match AR chamber in the corner of the step at the end of the chamber neck to the freebore that no amount of brushing, abrasive cleaner or conventional bore solvent would get out. I put some Gunzilla in and got distracted and left it for 24 hours. When I pushed a dry patch through the next day it came out with this little carbon ring on it. The borescope showed the stubborn spot was gone. So that little corner I'd forgotten about was the one instance where moly-coated bullets caused me bother, though plain old carbon can build up there, too. It was mostly psychological trouble, as the black ring didn't seem to affect accuracy, but I didn't like it being there and was glad to have found a way to remove it. I'm also reminded that Hummer70 recently told me that ZEP 505 will get under and lift the asphaltum sealant off pulled military bullets in just under 24 hours. It might be another agent that would make it possible to patch this Bear Creek stuff out. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

June 13, 2021, 11:52 AM	#26
jetinteriorguy Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2013 Posts: 3,173	I’m trying an experiment. I picked up some corks and have plugged one of my barrels, filled with MEK and plugged the chamber to let it soak. I’ve also picked up some more Acetone to try if the MEK doesn’t work. I’ll post results.

June 13, 2021, 02:32 PM	#28
jetinteriorguy Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2013 Posts: 3,173	That’s what I was thinking. I also decided to do the same routine but use acetone in the other barrel. I’m going to soak them overnight and see what happens. If no success then I’m going to try a stripper. I’ve been researching them and some will remove both epoxy paint and polyurethane so I’m thinking this would be the best bet. You can still get strippers that contain methylene chloride but only in larger quantities and hazardous shipping plus the high cost of the stripper makes it out of the question.

June 13, 2021, 02:41 PM	#29
jetinteriorguy Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2013 Posts: 3,173	Another thought I had would to maybe mix up some Ed’s Red and see if that works.

June 13, 2021, 05:38 PM	#30
Mike38 Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2009 Location: North Central Illinois Posts: 2,710	I see on the Bear Creek web site they use the words "molybdenum-disulfide". https://www.bearcreeksupplybullets.com/aboutourbullets

June 14, 2021, 06:54 AM	#31
cdoc42 Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,687	This section of the link offered by Mike38 poses a question related my previously described experience: "Our customers have fired thousands of rounds through various guns without ever cleaning the bore, or needing to. When you use our bullets and the right load combination, you'll be surprised at how clean the bore stays. Run a dry patch or two through it after use and you might never need to do anything else. You can brush the bore with a brass brush, but this is usually unnecessary." If I run a dry patch through any of my guns after firing, the patch will be black to some degree, due to carbon from powder burn. If this coating is moly, that, too, imparts a black coating on the patch. That one "might never need to do anything else" raises the question of what might one need to do? And what is expected of the use of a brass brush? "For these reasons, one of the biggest advantages of using BCS bullets is cleanliness. Clean to handle, clean to load, clean to use. The small amount of black you get on your fingers is harmless, and this molybdenum-disulfide washes off easily and is a good reminder that using BCS bullets will keep everything else clean." This is exactly what I experienced with my moly'd bullets - it washed off easily from my fingers, but I could never wash it off the barrel bore, and over time, I think it accumulated to adversely affect the accuracy.

June 14, 2021, 09:30 AM	#33
cdoc42 Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,687	Unclenick hasn't had a problem and maybe his technique plays a role. As he stated: "I never had an issue with the NECO process. I still have a lot of bullets coated with it, but I do clean it out after every range session. Bore Tech makes a special moly cleaner called Moly Magic that seems to work well, but so does Carbon Killer." I certainly did not clean the 7STW after every range session, so maybe I contributed to the problem. I still have a bunch of moly'd pistol bullets that I have run through the vib cleaner several times but the moly won't completely come off. So I'm afraid to use them. I will, however, get some Moly Magic and see what happens!!!

June 14, 2021, 09:38 AM	#34
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,539	The stuff Bear Creek uses may contain molybdenum sulfide, but it isn't straight MoS2 like the NECO powder Unclenick finds satisfactory. I think the fouling is whatever paint-like carrier they use.

June 14, 2021, 11:19 AM	#36
cdoc42 Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,687	Jim Watson, "The stuff Bear Creek uses may contain molybdenum sulfide, but it isn't straight MoS2 like the NECO powder Unclenick finds satisfactory. I think the fouling is whatever paint-like carrier they use." But Mike38 said "I see on the Bear Creek web site they use the words "molybdenum-disulfide". (MoS2)

June 14, 2021, 02:38 PM	#38
jetinteriorguy Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2013 Posts: 3,173	I’m sure it’s some sort of blend containing moly as well. I tried another thing that may hold some promise. I sprayed the bore in my M&P with PB Blaster and after a few hours of soaking it put a pretty good dent in getting the coating out. So I sprayed it down again and will let it soak overnight and see what happens.

June 15, 2021, 10:33 AM	#41
jetinteriorguy Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2013 Posts: 3,173	Well, here’s today’s results. Basically soaking with acetone had very little if any affect. The PB Blaster seems to have gotten about half of the buildup out. At this point I’m just going to wait for the Moly Magic to get here and hopefully finish cleaning these barrels up. Just for the fun of it I think I’ll order some Lee Liquid Alox and just tumble some bullets in it to see if that helps. At least I could use up the 1600 bullets I have left.

June 15, 2021, 03:38 PM	#42
cdoc42 Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,687	Here's surprise. I have bullets that I Neco-moly'd at least 15 years ago. I put 6 each of a generic .38 Cal, 158gr LSWC and Speer 200gr LSWC in a plastic urine specimen cup with 3/4-oz of Birchwood Casey No. 77 "Muzzle Magic" and 1/4-oz Gunzilla. It made a pink solution. I shook them up and left them stand overnight. I just now removed them, wiped them dry with a cotton rag and every bit of moly is gone. The solution is still pink but the rag is black. Previously I had Vib-cleaned others in corn cob media with Lyman Turbo-Cleaan Brass polish for 2 hours, and had ZERO results. Next I'll try to soak them overnight, then Vib-tumble, to see if I can save myself the effort of hand-wiping them.

June 16, 2021, 04:27 PM	#43
jetinteriorguy Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2013 Posts: 3,173	The Moly Magic arrived today and so far I’m seeing some results. Just going with the basic first time cleaning instructions my M&P barrel came about 90% clean in less than half an hour. The same time frame cleaned probably a little over half the crud out of my CZ75 barrel. So my next step is to saturate the barrels, cork them up, and let them soak overnight. This is very encouraging. Seems weird but it smells more like a soap than a solvent/penetrant.

June 16, 2021, 08:11 PM	#44
cdoc42 Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,687	" This is very encouraging. Seems weird but it smells more like a soap than a solvent/penetrant." This makes me wonder if the laundry soap that removed it from my hands is simply a different chemical surfactant than what's in "Moly Magic" or the combo I described.

June 17, 2021, 10:38 AM	#45
jetinteriorguy Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2013 Posts: 3,173	Soaking the bores overnight has helped, so far I’m soaking, scrubbing with a bronze brush, then followed by dry patches, then soaking and starting the process over again. Each time things get a little cleaner, so it’s a bit of a process but it’s working. At this point I have about 90%+ cleaned out so not much more and they’ll be all nice and clean. For me at least I’m taking two things from this experience, first of all no more Bear Creek Moly coated bullets for me, and second is that the Moly Magic cleaner does it’s job given enough time and work. Others experience may be more positive and good for them, just not my experience. Even though they cost more I’m going back to my old reliable Xtreme copper coated bullets.

June 18, 2021, 07:25 AM	#47
cdoc42 Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,687	There's a good article in the July issue of Guns &Ammo, entitled "Barrel Care." Among the things discussed, use a plastic-coated rod, not the metal 2-3-piece rods. Do not use stainless steel brushes, and in small-bore rifles, a wire brush will wear out the rifle throat quickly. Studies done by Hornady with .17 HMR showed accuracy loss after 1500 rounds when routinely brush-cleaned. Copper solvent and no brushing increased that to 7500 rounds. I now routinely only use nylon brushes.

June 18, 2021, 01:52 PM	#50
jetinteriorguy Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2013 Posts: 3,173	Thanks everyone, I’ve cleaned probably about 96%+ out of all four of these guns and that seems like all that’s going to come out. At the end I used a couple applications of Slip 2000 Carbon Killer for the final cleaning followed by a thin application of Slip 2000 lube to the bore then one final dry patch. The dry patch came through completely clean with just small traces of the Moly coating in the corners of the grooves left. I’m thinking this small trace amount will probably come out with shooting copper plated bullets through the barrels.