US Infantry (Army and Marine) Side Arm Carry

[shafter]

I'm sure there was a lot more latitude as to what people could get away with carrying during WWII vs any time in recent history.

[Archer1440]

Originally Posted by JustJake

Real Marines carry Colt M45A1s.

But probably not after next year. Unfortunately the M17’s are finding their way into Force Recon holsters.

End of an era.

[raimius]

The Army bought mostly M17s.
AF and Navy bought M18s.
I don't remember what the Marines bought.

The M9 is still in service, as the transition happens. Depending on what unit you are in, and what your job is, you will be issued one of those pistols or a rifle. The avg. infantryman does not get a pistol, generally. That can depend on what they are doing and what unit, though. Those with specialty weapons and/or leadership often get a pistol as a backup. You need to remember that the infantry loadout is VERY heavy, so adding a few more pounds of pistol and magazines is a serious thing. In most cases, more 5.56mags is a better deal than a 9x19 pistol, if you are fighting in with a bunch of teammates.

[44 AMP]

In most cases, more 5.56mags is a better deal than a 9x19 pistol, if you are fighting in with a bunch of teammates.

For fighting, certainly. But there is also living to be considered. And what I mean by living is the time you aren't getting shot at, but might be in need of a weapon unexpectedly.

A pistol (including unauthorized personal ones) can be an item of great comfort in your sleeping bag (and much more useful than a rifle) when you aren't in a fully secured area.

Not sure what they did in the "Sandbox" but in Viet Nam and from what I've read in WWII and Korea lots of guys on the line had some kind of pistol, against the "official" rules and the brass usually looked the other way. Very often a unofficial pistol would be passed to others in the unit if the owner was wounded or rotated out, so that someone would continue to get some good from it.

[Classic12]

So the bunch of old decommissioned M9 Berettas will meet Mr Crunch ? None will be sold to the public ?

[peacefulgary]

I served from 86 to 92 (Army) and, being Communications, I was lucky enough to have served in various units.
An Armor company, an Artillery battery, an Engineer company, and a Medical company.
In all but one of those units only the officers carried handguns. NCOs and lower enlisted where not issued handguns.
The only exception were the tankers, who were issued handguns regardless of rank.

On a side note, when I was in Desert Storm in a Medical company the Dust Off medivac crew carried .38 Special snub-nosed revolvers.

[wild cat mccane]

That makes me think the need for a firearm for that group was deemed next to not needed.

[44 AMP]

I served from 86 to 92 (Army) ....
In all but one of those units only the officers carried handguns. NCOs and lower enlisted where not issued handguns.
The only exception were the tankers, who were issued handguns regardless of rank.

It is kind of interesting, how things change, and when. Through the late 70s, when I left the service, SOME tankers got pistols (1911A1s), and some of them got SMGs, actual WWII production M3 and M3A1.45acp, and most people who were in tank units but weren't actual tank crew got issued M16A1s.

[101combatvet]

Originally Posted by RC20

I know what the general issue is, its who they issue them to?

In this case is it standard issue to infantry? (Army, Mainers or both)

It depends on the unit; Special Operations guys are often dual armed with both pistol and rifle. I've carried various firearms depending on who I'm working with, 1911A1, M9, Glock 19, even an Inglis Hi-Power.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

It is kind of interesting, how things change, and when. Through the late 70s, when I left the service, SOME tankers got pistols (1911A1s), and some of them got SMGs, actual WWII production M3 and M3A1.45acp, and most people who were in tank units but weren't actual tank crew got issued M16A1s.

A good friend of mine was a tanker. He's fifty now, I believe. I met him a bit over twenty years ago, at which time I believe he was recently released from active duty. So he would have been active in the 1980s or 90s.

He was issued a sidearm. He has told me that he originally had a 1911, and then they transitioned to the M9 Beretta. That was the personnel's issue weapon. The vehicles were equipped with a couple or three SMGs. I don't recall if the first tank type he was in had Thompsons, but I know he has mentioned the M3 "grease gun."

[101combatvet]

I forgot to mention that I qualified with a CZ-52, which I may have carried a few times, and was issued a VZ58 when working with the Czech Army. Life can be challenging, but someone has to do it.

[Ricklin]

Ahh the CZ52, the pistol that thinks it is a rifle. My favorite for shooting in the evening.

[Steve in Allentown,]

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

The vehicles were equipped with a couple or three SMGs. I don't recall if the first tank type he was in had Thompsons, but I know he has mentioned the M3 "grease gun."

I was an 11E M60A1 tanker during the '70s and '80s. Every crew member drew a 1911 and a shoulder holster from the arms room. In addition, each loader and driver drew an M3 from the arms room. The loader's grease gun was maintained in a simple, vertical rack at his position in the turret. The driver's grease gun was maintained in a simple, vertical rack in the driver's compartment.

Most 1911s were A1s but there were still some WWI era 1911s in every arms room. Most M3s were A1s that were cocked by sticking your finger in a recess in the bolt and pulling the bolt back but there were a number of older M3s that had the little cocking handle that you'd rotate to move the bolt back.

Grease guns were fun to shoot. They were full auto only but you could fire single rounds if you were quick on the trigger. Filling their magazines by hand was definitely a chore though.

[44 AMP]

Grease guns were fun to shoot. They were full auto only but you could fire single rounds if you were quick on the trigger. Filling their magazines by hand was definitely a chore though.

were you aware that there is a "magazine loading tool" built into the buttstock?
On both the M3 and M3A1 there is a "tab" near the rear of the stock, who's only purpose is to be used to push down rounds in the magazine as you load them.

This is also the reason the stock comes out easily using just the catch button. The stock is meant to be removed, used as a mag loading tool then reinstalled, by the user, no tools involved.

I was a Small Arms Repairman (MOS 45B20) in the 70s, and was in Germany 77-78. Worked on a number of M3/M3A1 guns during that time.

[Steve in Allentown,]

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

were you aware that there is a "magazine loading tool" built into the buttstock?

Yup but we were young, dumb, and impatient. The painful lessons are the ones that seem to stick with you the best. Our thumbs thanked us once we figured out what the 90° shaped tab was for and how to use it.

Speaking of young and dumb, one guy didn't secure his M3 in its rack. It ended up caught between the turret and the hull so that when the TC traversed the turret the barrel on the M3 got bent 90°. I don't recall what happened to the guy who had signed it out of the arms room (Article 15?).

[5whiskey]

Real Marines carry Colt M45A1s...

Parade-tasked Marines are just as important to the Corp as fighting Marines.

I know this was probably written tongue in cheek, but there are plenty of “Real Marines” who died since 2001 who carried M9s instead of M1911A1s, if they did carry a pistol. Many more are permanently disfigured, missing body parts and limbs. Many “Real Marines” have stared down death, called danger close on fire for effect, employed PICMDEEP, shot men, and have been shot... all after the M1911A1 was largely replaced with the M9.

[44 AMP]

Speaking of young and dumb, one guy didn't secure his M3 in its rack. It ended up caught between the turret and the hull so that when the TC traversed the turret the barrel on the M3 got bent 90°. I don't recall what happened to the guy who had signed it out of the arms room (Article 15?).

Possibly, though actual mistakes were usually forgiven with a lesser punishment, along with paying for the breakage. The usual process was that the damaged gun would be sent to my shop for a TI (technical inspection DD form 2404) and then an ECOD (Estimated Cost of Damages and I forget that form's number) would be made up, listing the cost of the needed repair (parts & labor), and a statement of charges prepared by the owner unit against the dumb guy, to have the money taken out of his pay.

On the other hand, a "problem child" who deliberately broke things because he could would usually face at least an article 15, if not actual Court Martial and fed jail time.

One time they brought me an M16 with the left side of the upper "peeled" back like a banana peel along with numerous internal damage. The story we were given was some dumb SOB emptied several blanks worth of powder into the rifle, plugged the barrel and fired a blank, and it "just blew up".

the gun was a write off, even the lower had been bulged. That guy was facing charges and jail time, once the medics let him loose...

The Marines don't get ALL of Uncle Sam's Misguided Children!

[JustJake]

* * * all after the M1911A1 was largely replaced with the M9.

For elite Marine units, the M45A1 replaced the ballistically-challenged 9mm M9, at least for a time.

[jr24]

Originally Posted by JustJake

For elite Marine units, the M45A1 replaced the ballistically-challenged 9mm M9, at least for a time.

Didn't last long. What, 4 years?

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...1911s-service/

[dogtown tom]

JustJake Real Marines carry Colt M45A1s.

Real Marines carry only what was issued to them.