CLR and barrel cleaning

[stagpanther]

Decided to give this a try on a newish Shaw 6mm BR Norma barrel out of curiosity since it's got a rough bore that collects fouling quickly. I only ran a couple of small patches patches through and left in the bore for only a minute or two and thought I was careful enough to prevent any exposure to the barrel's bluing. Afterwards I neutralized and cleaned the bore further with other cleaners.

Before going out to shoot I noticed that I missed solvent oozing out the muzzle end and collecting on the underside--the bluing was completely stripped to bare metal. Using the bore scope I also noticed significant erosion of the muzzle crown--the barrel is a goner as far as I'm concerned.

To be fair I can't say conclusively that the problem is unquestionably attributable to the CLR, but it's the only variable I changed in my cleaning regimen; no way I'll touch the stuff ever again in cleaning firearms.

[HiBC]

There was an earlier thread that lauded the virtues of CLR as bore cleaner.

My response was "You go ahead. Not my barrel" Just gut feel. It didn't seem right.

I have also read in "Rifle" mag or "The Accurate Rifle" to NOT allow bore cleaning chemicals to mix. While either may be OK,mixed together they can damage the bore.
And bore "texture" can stubbornly hold enough trace to do harm.

I suggest picking one,Bore Tec.Wipe Out,Tetra, and just using it. Some brands might have a family of compatible solutions.
I'll leave the "gooder ideas" from the beauty parlor or baby shoe plater or Granny Goodwitches pickle brine or Nona's baby butt marinade for the Competition to develop...

Bummer you paid the price for the knowledge. Thanks for sharing it.

[stagpanther]

NOT allow bore cleaning chemicals to mix

My guess is that a combination of residual CLR in the grooves plus a violent reaction to another solvent that acted as an accelerator is what etched the crown--maybe even a reaction to the bluing itself. I only used two small patches and cleaned out after only a minute or two--a remarkable reaction. But as my luck would have it (as it usually does) I stumbled upon the wrong way to do things pretty quickly. I could cut the crown off but the bore is so much work to keep clean I'll look to a better barrel next time around.

[HiBC]

This might be one of those situations when,if you feel you have nothing to lose,fire lap it. See what happens

[jpx2rk]

I too have "experimented" with CLR on both blued and SS barrels. No damage to the barrels based on subsequent firings and target results. I did notice on one of the SS barrels that apparently some of the gunk and residue had oozed down into the threads on the thread protector as the thread protector was "stuck" but a light tap with a screwdriver handle broke the bond. I then noticed a several discolored spots on the exterior underside of the SS barrel that came of fairly easy, but still noticeable if you look closely. I think I was more careful on the blued barrels as CLR is "safe" for SS, but I doubt I will use it any more except on a couple pulled barrels that never did shoot well. There are other products that will do the job and have peace of mind as well.

[Shadow9mm]

yeah, I have heard some people use it. I also heard it can do nasty things if your not careful. I stick to products that I know wont eat my bore or bluing...

[ballardw]

Is this CLR the Calcium Lime and Rust remover sold for cleaning showers and such?

I hate undocumented TLA's (three letter acronyms) because so many of them are not unique.

[stagpanther]

Yes sorry about that.

[HiBC]

As far as I know,yes. Its bathroom cleaner. I don't know the composition.

A common component of copper removing commercial bore cleaners is ammonia.
Ammonia doesn't necessarily play well with other chemicals.

FWIW, 416 R rifle barrel steel has sulphur in it to make it more free machining.

[stagpanther]

AFAIK from what I've gleaned on the net it contains acid as the active ingredient. Since I used so little with such a short exposure time I figure it must have reacted with something else to boost it's effect.

[Shadow9mm]

you think you could have a gunsmith take 1/2 off the barrel and re-crown, maybe a little cold blue to get it running? or is a barrel swap simpler?

[stagpanther]

you think you could have a gunsmith take 1/2 off the barrel and re-crown, maybe a little cold blue to get it running? or is a barrel swap simpler?

I could--but is it worth it is the question.

[Shadow9mm]

Originally Posted by stagpanther

I could--but is it worth it is the question.

new barrels are always nice. only question is which is cheaper, by how much....

[HiBC]

Once again I suggest ,fire lap it and see what happens. What do you have to lose? Good experience,and it might work.

[stagpanther]

Once again I suggest ,fire lap it and see what happens. What do you have to lose? Good experience,and it might work.

I have the bullets to do it and have done plenty of fire-lapping--but there is too much irregular etching at the crown face where the rifling ends, I don't think there's any way to fix that without cutting back and recrowning the muzzle. If it were an otherwise really nice well-finished bore I'd consider it right away--but getting a better barrel is the best solution in the long run as I see it--I'm thinking about a cut-rifled 6mm dasher maybe. I might use the barrel for an experimental chambering at some point, I've accumulated quite a pile of spare barrels over the years.

[mehavey]

Originally Posted by Stagpanther

Before going out to shoot I noticed....

Stag... has actual shooting resulting in anything significantly different?

[stagpanther]

Most definitely groups have opened up that were previously were really tight.

[mehavey]

Well... that tears it.
empirical data (don'cha jus' hate that stuff ?)





https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....1Dkhh0JXRL.pdf

Restrictions: Incompatible with strong oxidizing agents, metals
(except stainless steel, chrome), acids, bases, and bleach.

[RC20]

So, we have the finest non haz non toxic and low odor cleaners in Carbon Killer 2000 and Bore Tech eliminator with a proven record of actually claing (vis a Hawkeye Borescope

We we still put bathroom cleaners down the barrel.

Call me stunned. The following is my method of using CK2k (Carbon Killer 2000). I don't usualy use Bore Tech as I rarely have copper, but I have used it to clean up guns that had layers of copper on top of layers of carbon (using the CK2K once the layer of Copper is gone though Bore Tech has a pretty good carbon cleaner as well)


I think I have picked up a lot that makes common sense cleaning wise as opposed to the Urban Legends of the shooting business.




As for cleaning, this article was by far the best, he went about it right, used a boroscope to confirm (I have a Lyman now, his was the better Hawkeye)

http://www.slip2000.com/blog/precisi...ting-magazine/

What I found agrees fully with his findings, the Carbon Killer 2000 works better than anything on carbon. The Bore Tech Eliminator
does copper the best I have seen (and he does not say but it has a decent carbon component as well). I do get older guns with some copper in them so I have tested it.

Both are non haz, non toxic (my wife was having issues with Hoppes in the shop leaking into the house). They use focused chemistry rather than brute force dissolving to do the job from my view.

Without a boroscope, the bore may look shiny, but the boro scope tells you what is down in the groves and you can see the CK2k or BTE working.

I have developed my own variation on how I got about it, partly as I hate to clean at home as I need to get to the range early to get a bench and I run late and don't get them cleaned, so I clean after I shoot X rounds (usually 25-50)

This is for the CK2K as I usually don't have copper.

I go after it when the barrel is warm, that helps the process and about 3 cycles and the barrel is clean. If I can time it I run the CK2K through and soak the barrel as a cease fire is called, then it soaks while people go down range and I resume cleaning when the line is hot again.

I use a nylon brush, I have an eye dropper bottle, I drizzle the CK2K on the nylon brush which holds it pretty good, run it through the barrel, drizzle it again on the other end, then 3 to 5 strokes, the nylon brush is out the barrel on the last one, I drizzle again, pull it out and run a dry patch through.

I repeat that about 3 times and its clean. No black and a light color stain on the last patch. I run a final patch through to get the last chemical out of the bore.

You can do the same at home, takes a bit more.

We had a family 270 (Finnbear) that the best I could get to shoot with handloads was 1.5 inches.

Once I put the gun through the regimen its shoots 7/8 at 100.

It had been cleaned after each shooting with Hoppes, it just never got it all out. With the boro scope I could see the 50 years of carbon that had never quite got cleaned out build up. That one took some time as I wet the barrel with CK2K and then let it sit. There was no copper to speak of in it and what there was came out with the BTE.

The Lyman Borsecope runs $170 or so on sale, worth it if you have a lot of guns and really WANT to see what works.

[stagpanther]

Well, in my defense there is a notable competition shooter that pitches using it, though he does admit he only has used it on his personal SS barrels. I was curious. IT's possible that I just had something funky that reacted. I was a little skeptical anyway, but in a way I'm glad I only sacrificed what was a fairly mediocre barrel anyway up front.

[stagpanther]

I dragged the rifle out of the safe and was actually looking at it to put a new barrel on, and decided to take one last look at the damage. While the finish was definitely eaten off at the muzzle and under the barrel, I decided to give the damaged crown the "neutron bomb" treatment of chemicals to see what would happen--pretty much had nothing to lose since I figured I'd lop off an inch of the muzzle anyway. After soaking a while in a couple of different treatments, I was surprised to see that the rifling had "repaired itself" at the crown. What I figured must have happened was the initial CLR treatment resulted in a "sludge" of metallic substances that solidified at the exit of the muzzle--it looked exactly like damaged rifling in color and texture to my eye. I don't know what to do about the bluing--which actually resembles a black epoxy paint of some sort and not real bluing, but I don't really care if the gun can still shoot OK.

[HiBC]

Y'all can do whatever you want. Its your rifle.

I'm of the opinion that more barrel damage is done by "cleaning" than shooting.

I don't care what his shooting record is, I'm not following any you tube "influencer" that tells me to put oven cleaner,drain cleaner,pickle juice or any other wild hair idea in my barrel.

AFAIK, the guy is not a barrel maker,or a metallurgist,or a chemist.

He might be an idiot with too much gun money.

If I can afford to fit custom barrels.or even shoot at today's ammo prices,I can afford the occasional bottle of whatever bore cleaner gets blessed by.....hmmm,oh,say Unclenick here on TFL. Beats Youtube every time.

I just do not get the facination with witches brews,ameteur alchemy,or whatever.

I wonder what Gale McMillan would have said to someone putting CLR in his barrels.

Its nothing personal,Stagpanther. I'm not talking about you,individually.

I don't understand the whole enchilada. Why does the youtube guy do it??

[stagpanther]

Y'all can do whatever you want. Its your rifle.

I'm of the opinion that more barrel damage is done by "cleaning" than shooting.

I don't care what his shooting record is, I'm not following any you tube "influencer" that tells me to put oven cleaner,drain cleaner,pickle juice or any other wild hair idea in my barrel.

AFAIK, the guy is not a barrel maker,or a metallurgist,or a chemist.

He might be an idiot with too much gun money.

If I can afford to fit custom barrels.or even shoot at today's ammo prices,I can afford the occasional bottle of whatever bore cleaner gets blessed by.....hmmm,oh,say Unclenick here on TFL. Beats Youtube every time.

I just do not get the facination with witches brews,ameteur alchemy,or whatever.

I wonder what Gale McMillan would have said to someone putting CLR in his barrels.

Its nothing personal,Stagpanther. I'm not talking about you,individually.

I don't understand the whole enchilada. Why does the youtube guy do it??

Your point is well taken--but in the end we all have to make our own decisions based on our experiences and anticipated needs. I happen to have a natural disposition towards trying something new--often without knowing fully what I'm getting into. However--nobody forces me to do anything and I take 100% responsibility for the consequences of my "experiments" (unless something is genuinely defective).

[stagpanther]

I got 5 quick shots off of a random load I chose using varget and 105 vld's off the hood of my truck just as the lightening started flying from an approaching thunderstorm. I think the barrel is probably still in pretty good shape.

[std7mag]

Someone's been watching Eric Cortina...

At the match.
Couple drops of Dawn & water. 3 wet patches, followed by 2 dry patches.
Or.....
Take 3 patches & put in your mouth. Swirl them around while you shoot.
After that round, take patches out of your mouth & run through barrel. Follow with 2 dry patches.

At home is 1/4-1/3 Kroil mixed with Hoppes #9.