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Old July 30, 2011, 09:43 PM   #26
ltc444
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As a former LEO and Training Officer (Part Time), It appears to me that the officer in question should be under investigation for a battery of criminal charges.

I believe that an active effort should made to demand the Prosecutor file charges against the individual in question.

The Officers actions and build suggest to me that he might have had a ROID RAGE incident.
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Old July 31, 2011, 10:56 AM   #27
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Ohio's Channel 4 News and HLN(HeadLine News)has today had on both original vid. of the CHL holder arrest and the vid. B.Roberts referred to. Both have been shown repeatedly.

Canton Ohio residents as well as Ohioans for Concealed Carry are calling on the Canton City officials to terminate Harless at once.

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Old July 31, 2011, 11:42 AM   #28
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Originally posted by Itc444 "I believe that an active effort should made to demand the Prosecutor file charges against the individual in question."

While many emails were sent to the head of the Canton City Councel, "Shullman", as a resident of Ohio, my email went to the law director of Canton doing exactly that. I asked that he did what needed and had to be done. I have family and friends who are officers and have much respect for their work, so watching this video is extremely painful. It's hard to believe it's real, and yet nothing to date has really been done. The Officer being on leave to me is like saying he's on vacation.

I had a good friend one time going through a divorce. He stopped by the house to pick up a few things and got in an argument with this wife. It got heated and he said, " I should beat the snot out of you." He was / is a peacful person and just got caught up in the moment. He said he was sorry and regretted saying it the minute it left his lips. HOWEVER, she called the police and he was picked up and jailed for his remarks. This officer repeatedly threatened to kill this person, it's clearly caught on tape, and people are outraged. HOW can he not be arrested by now. Somthing smells like fish. Time to place an FBI office in Canton.

I sure am loosing faith in the system, and as a CCW holder, if there is this kind of stigma out there, lord forbid if I ever have to use my weapon. If so I hope there is a video tape. Wait a minute that may not help either, I mean has the charges been dropped. NO.

Rant mode: Off
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Old August 2, 2011, 07:10 PM   #29
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He gets due process just like everybody else. Don't forget the Police Department in Canton has a contract with the police union there. I imagine that nothing serious can be done till he gets his due process taken care of and he is found guilty of not following policy or some other charge. The contract is there to protect the good cops from unfounded complaints also.

Justice ain't pefect here sometimes. I will take it over what comes in second place though.
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Old August 2, 2011, 08:29 PM   #30
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He may get due process, but it is in no way shape or form like "everybody else". That was the point of my little divorce story above. Let me threaten to kill someone, tape it, then call the police, see how long it takes me to be arrested. I'm no law expert but I'm guessing same day, maybe same hour. I sure wouldn't be sent on vacation. lol

The state of Ohio says he is to be held to a higher standard because he is an officer. He is not even being held to regular standards if you ask me. It appears all politics, and in my opinion, so far, it stinks.

Maybe I'm seeing different than everyone else.
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Old August 2, 2011, 10:18 PM   #31
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Don't forget the Police Dept. in Canton has a contract with the police union there.
As does every PD I know of in the country but a union contract in no way supercedes the law.

The union is only there to represent both officers in the departmental charges that should(and probably will) be placed against both officers for the procedures officers didn't use at the onset of the stop. Then there should be more departmental charges for not clearing the car before the officer climbs in the back seat. Then there should be departmental charges of "actions un- becoming an officer" which the union can step in and fight.

Criminal charges should have been filed but instead the prosecutors office tried to strike a deal to drop charges on the guy that was arrested if he wouldn't sue the City of Canton.

Don't know if he has yet but the driver ought to be pressing the charges himself and requesting to the courts that this case be moved from Cantons jurisdiction. Doesn't sound like the prosecutor wants to play fair.

Quote:
Maybe I'm seeing different than everyone else.
Not so sure about that Hitthespot...but the wheels turn slow. Apparently, in this case, even if your proof is the PD video. Who knows, this guy and his att'y may be discussing an 'out of court' settlement for all we know. Won't be the first time.
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Old August 2, 2011, 10:28 PM   #32
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TOO HONEST TOO HEATED!!! TOO BAD!!!

Brent

Last edited by hogdogs; August 2, 2011 at 11:11 PM. Reason: see text
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Old August 2, 2011, 10:46 PM   #33
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If it were not for the video, who do you think would believe what happened? In court I certainly would take the word of LE over a defendant because it is assumed they are held to a higher standard. Fortunately, IMO, I believe that police department is the exception and not the rule. I say police department because his partner was so nonchalant about his non-professionalism. How would all of you reacted had you been the recipient of his tirade? Had it been me, in my younger years, I might of got his bullet in my head
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Old August 2, 2011, 10:55 PM   #34
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the union or 'legal team' for the dept, agency, whatever only will back him and/or protect him if he acted "within the scope of his employment"

BG's, prisoners, etc sue the good guys all the time and it is not given a 2nd thought by the suee because there are things in place to thwart it but not when one is out of bounds. they probably haven't made their decision but I agree, why should this prosecutor be the decider(if he is)?!
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Old August 3, 2011, 04:06 AM   #35
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At no time did I intend to imply that due process should not be followed. Nor did I intend to insult the honest and hardworking LEOs which place their lives on the line 24/7.

What I would like to see in every department and jurisdiction, is Officers being held accountable for their actions under the law.

In this case, the officers actions appear to go beyond what can be handled by an administrative process. Had a citzen been videoed making the same "threats", that citzen would have been arrested and be facing serious charges.

The officer in question must stand before the bar of justice and be judged by a jury of his fellow citzens.

The city of Canton will also be judged and in due course be held accountable.
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Old August 3, 2011, 07:43 AM   #36
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Everybody gets due process in this nation. You are presumed innocent until found guilty.

Its not a perfect system.

I bet if you ever have to have your day in court you want the same rights as the officer who committed the misdeeds.

That same system PROTECTS the good Cops who do the right thing.
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Old August 3, 2011, 07:51 AM   #37
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Eghad, ltc44's point is that due process does not imply immunity from normal criminal charges that anybody else would have faced.

Officer Harless should be receiving due process, as defined by the departmental agreement with the union, for interdepartmental charges.

He should be receiving due process, as defined by the 4th and 5th Amendments and applicable state of Ohio laws, for those actions that went beyond inappropriate and met the gate for criminal charges.
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Old August 3, 2011, 09:11 AM   #38
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At the very least he should be charged and arraigned, immediately.

Had I, or any civilian, behaved that way and said what he did WITH A LOADED WEAPON ON OUR HIP, we would at the very least be spending the evening in a cell with Bubba attempting to protect the sanctity of our rears with nothing but a bar of soap and a pillow case.

He should be afforded THAT due process, because that is what a civilian would be entitled to.
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Old August 3, 2011, 09:56 AM   #39
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I cannot comprehend that such an officer would not be fired, and charged. He appears to think this is Nazi Germany and he is a member of the Gestapo.
I also fault his partner. There is a limit as to what a partner should tolerate.
In addition LEOs should be held to higher standards of conduct, and LANGUAGE than the average citizen. I wish I could be on the jury if he is tried.

I have kin in LE, and personally know a fair number of LEOs, including Chiefs. None would tolerate such actions.
Now let's see what Canton, OH folks do about it.

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Old August 3, 2011, 09:59 AM   #40
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This is getting interesting:

http://www.timesreporter.com/news_mo...less-to-resign

TimesRepoter.com (Dover-New Philadelphia, Ohio)
Posted Jul 28, 2011 @ 12:55 PM

Gun group calls for Schulman, Harless to resign

Quote:
CANTON —

Ohioans for Concealed Carry is calling for the resignation of a Canton police officer and City Council President Allen Schulman.

On Thursday, the group — which last week posted a video of patrolman Daniel Harless’ threatening and volatile exchange with a concealed carry permit holder during a June 8 traffic stop — issued a statement asking both to step down immediately.

Harless is on sick leave from the force, pending the results of an internal affairs investigation and discipline hearing for his behavior.

At Monday night’s City Council meeting, Schulman lashed out at those outside of Canton who were critical of the city, and criticized Ohio’s concealed carry handgun law.
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Old August 3, 2011, 11:25 AM   #41
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I bet the pressure is getting very hard to fend off while it still grows as well!

When it gets political, things will happen.
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Old August 3, 2011, 12:27 PM   #42
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Well, I'll be more than happy to kick in $20 towards whoever Schulman's competitor in the next election is... just on principle.
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Old August 3, 2011, 03:51 PM   #43
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Shulman seeks to garner political points by disparaging the criticism of outsiders, as if their opinions on police abuse aren't valid because they don't live in that jurisdiction.

He also attempts to characterize the criticism as an attack on the the entire Canton police department, then later as an attack on the entire city of Canton.

Nothing could be further from the truth. Folks who live in states like NJ, NY, CA, ILL, etc. dream about living in a state with gun laws like OH.

We should all be so lucky as to have a Police department, which, although as vulnerable to attracting bad eggs as any other, has so far stepped up to condemn the actions of this officer, and appears to be dealing with the matter according to protocol and the law.

Shulman is a class A, typical left wing ideologue who, out of one side of his mouth, claims support for the second amendment, while condemning the laws that allow folks to exercise it out of the other. He would serve himself and others better by keeping his incongruous philosophy to himself.

But I would defend his right to stupidity to my death.
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Old August 3, 2011, 07:48 PM   #44
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I believe Allen Schulman's tenure as Canton City Council Pres. is up Dec 2011.

With Schulman's thoughts on cc, which he is entitled to, I'm in the process of making his day.

See, every year as many of our family members that can, get together and go somewhere that the majority of family attending want to go.
We had three places on a list that we couldn't make our minds up where to go. The Football Hall of Fame was one. It's been scratched from the list as we feel we wouldn't want to visit a city that has, not just a city council member, but the Pres. of their city council not wanting us in his city.

Two of our family members(out of roughly 40 to date) that are showing up are out-of-state LEO and were not only disgusted by Harless's actions but more-so the comments Schulman made as a representative of the City of Canton.

Since its now virtually impossible to reach Schulman by phone cause he simply refuse's to answer his phone or call people back. I'm sending him an email as I feel he probably needs the good news of our family not visiting his city being legally armed.

Schulman has a right to his opinion.... but after having a family vote...it was unanimous...


Our money will proudly be spent eslewhere!
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Old August 3, 2011, 08:28 PM   #45
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it is pretty obvious that this officer had a good record(I believe one article quoted an oficer aying this) and is respected by his dept and peers. He'll have to answer for this one though, and he knows he slipped up.
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Old August 3, 2011, 08:35 PM   #46
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Hmmmm, am I the ONLY one here seeing a "trend" in this country?? How many videos must we see of LAW ABIDING citizens getting treated like 3rd class citizens with badges for LAWFULLY carrying a firearm?? Just saying.........


Edited Comment: This thread is about a single incident and a single officer. Comments that attempt to broaden the "scope" of this thread will be treated harshly.

Just Saying.....

Last edited by Al Norris; August 3, 2011 at 09:04 PM. Reason: Not in this thread!
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Old August 3, 2011, 09:28 PM   #47
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Quote:
Edited Comment: This thread is about a single incident and a single officer. Comments that attempt to broaden the "scope" of this thread will be treated harshly.

Just Saying.....
Last edited by Al Norris; Today at 10:04 PM. Reason: Not in this thread!
Hence this last night...

Quote:
TOO HONEST TOO HEATED!!! TOO BAD!!!

Brent
Last edited by hogdogs; Today at 12:11 AM. Reason: see text
Looks like reason was my buddy, huh?

Brent

Last edited by hogdogs; August 3, 2011 at 09:49 PM.
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Old August 3, 2011, 09:36 PM   #48
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If he is highly regarded by his peers there is something wrong in the whole dept. as I think he has had such problems in the past.
Again, his partner should have taken a position that the officer was wrong.
Do LEOs think their partners can do no wrong? Fire them both then. Such things result in a great distrust of LEOs.
LEOs are to uphold the law and protect the PUBLIC not put the priority on protecting their partners when the partner is a loose cannon.

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Old August 3, 2011, 10:25 PM   #49
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Quote:
it is pretty obvious that this officer had a good record(I believe one article quoted an oficer aying this) and is respected by his dept and peers. He'll have to answer for this one though, and he knows he slipped up.
Maybe one of his fellow officers thinks his record is good, but he has a history of complaints for excessive violence, and there's another video out there of a stop a year ago in which he threatened to blow the detainee's effing head off and sleep well that night. In that video he repeatedly called the occupant of the vehicle "M-Fers".

If that's their idea of a good record, the entire department needs to be replaced.
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Old August 3, 2011, 10:40 PM   #50
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Quote:
Maybe one of his fellow officers thinks his record is good, but he has a history of complaints for excessive violence, and there's another video out there of a stop a year ago in which he threatened to blow the detainee's effing head off and sleep well that night. In that video he repeatedly called the occupant of the vehicle "M-Fers".

If that's their idea of a good record, the entire department needs to be replaced.
I'll second that motion!
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