45 ACP and plated bullets

coptersteve · November 20, 2011, 09:52 PM

Hello, Man am I frustrated, I went to this little guns and ammo shop looking for plated bullets. I bought 500 rounds of what I believe to be Berry's bullets,they were sold in bulk. 230 grain round nose. they measure .452". I searched everywhere for load data. the owner of the shop told me to use starting load data for FMJ in the same style bullet. My issue is the COAL, it's everywhere. I loaded 10 rounds, winchester brass, CCI LP primers and 4.5 grains of titegroup at 1.230 coal. But I have found COAL up to 1.270. Am I okay with this COAL or should I stretch it out a bit. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I have not been to the range yet. How come Berry's doesn't step up and put out load data like most of the other manufactures?

Coptersteve

Orochimaru · November 20, 2011, 10:04 PM

I use Berry's plated rounds in numerous calibers. The real secret behind them is to use enough powder to get them out of the barrel, and at the same time stay under about 1200 fps to avoid copper deposits.

Starting at the low end of FMJ usually accomplishes this. Sometimes you can go all the way to the top of the FMJ data, other times you cannot. Going too low (into the lead range) is not a good idea. The plated bullets provide more resistance than their lead counterparts.

I've seen COAL all over the place for 45ACP data, too. I might suggest loading 10 each at 1.230, 1.240, and 1.250 and see which, if any, your firearm seems to like to feed, cycle, and shoot the best.

As for your load -- I think you're probably safe with it. You're 0.3 under the max load for a 230 Lead RN from the Hodgdon site, and it shows an even shorter COAL than you're using. I'll be interested to hear what others have to say about it, but it seems like a sane load to me.

Why doesn't Berry's publish data? I have no idea. I've never had the need for it, although I generally don't flirt with either end of the velocity spectrum. If I was going to do so, I'd probably welcome it. As it stands, I've been able to just use the low end of typical FMJ data (or even Ranier data when available) and get good results.

Shotgun693 · November 20, 2011, 10:05 PM

You're getting an OAL variation from 1.230 up to 1.270? While I think that's more than I expect it's likely no big deal with handgun ammo. If It'll chamber I'd shoot it.

Orochimaru · November 20, 2011, 10:07 PM

I read the OP's comment to indicate that he is seeing loading data with COAL from 1.230 to 1.270. Is that what you meant, Coptersteve?

jfrey · November 20, 2011, 10:10 PM

I use the Berry's 200 gr flat point bullet at 1.200 so I would think that 1.230 to 1.240 would be good with the round point. Try them and see how they shoot in YOUR gun and go from there.

Hammerhead · November 20, 2011, 10:20 PM

I use jacketed bullet data with plated bullets in auto pistol cartridges, your far less likely to stick a bullet in the bore that way. My chrono says that plated bullets match up well with FMJ data, especially with Hodgdon FMJ data.

You can use lead data, but don't start at the bottom.

tom234 · November 20, 2011, 10:31 PM

Plated bullet manufacturers generally recommend lead bullet load data be used for their plated bullets. E.G........
"We, at Rainier Ballistics, recommend using lead bullet load data when loading our bullets. There is no need for adjustment when using lead bullet load data. Our bullets are jacketed using an electroplating process and are softer than traditionally jacketed bullets; hence the recommendation to use lead bullet load data. If you only have access to traditionally jacketed load data, we recommend reducing maximum charge by 10%. A roll or taper crimp may be used with our bullets; do not over crimp. "
http://www.rainierballistics.com/mainframe.htm

Charlie98 · November 21, 2011, 08:04 AM

I think the plated bullets are fine for medium range bullets, if you want to drive them to max velocity, I would recommend going with a traditional FMJ design (or copper jacketed design.)

A variance in OAL like that isn't a big deal, like one poster suggested, maybe load a few with different OAL's and see how they function if you think it's going to be a problem.

Sevens · November 21, 2011, 09:53 AM

In a round where you aren't toying with maximum pressures...
And in .45 ACP where the pressures are quite reasonably low even at max...

Find yourself an FMJ .45 factory load that runs & feeds well and if the profile/shape of the Berry's 230 grain plated RN is similar, simply copy the COAL.

No, it will not result in the "same load" as factory, but it will likely feed and you can tweak the charge either way to your liking.

grubbylabs · November 21, 2011, 10:04 AM

Speer's Gold Dot line is plated so you could use that data. The important thing with COL on a 45 is making sure that it functions reliably. Start with the longer COL and work your way down till your gun feeds reliably. If you have a 1911 platform you will likely be able to shoot almost any thing you put into it, however; if you have a XD like I do, you will find that they are pretty picky about what they feed as far as bullet profile and COL.

dickttx · November 21, 2011, 07:43 PM

"Plated bullet manufacturers generally recommend lead bullet load data be used for their plated bullets. E.G........
"We, at Rainier Ballistics, recommend using lead bullet load data..."

True for Rainier. However, Berrys web site says:

FAQ: How do I load Berry's Preferred Plated Bullets?
Plated bullets occupy a position between cast bullets and jacketed bullets. They are soft lead, but have a hard outer shell on them. When loading plated bullets we have found best results using low- to mid-range jacketed data in the load manual. You must use data for a bullet that has the same weight and profile as the one you are loading. Do not exceed mid-range loads. Do not use magnum loads.

Ozzieman · November 21, 2011, 08:50 PM

I’m kind of curious why those of you that use plated bullets chose them over good quality lead?
Other that indoor range restrictions for lead I don’t see the reason to spend the added price of shooting plated over lead and my experience with plated (which is limited to 9mm only) lead was more accurate.

Penn bullets: 230 45 ACP, 1000 for 90$
Cabalas Rainier 230 RN ACP, 500 for 80$
The other advantage with the Penn bullets is that you can get them sized from .451 to .455.
http://www.pennbullets.com/45/45-caliber.html
To me lead always wins.

grubbylabs · November 21, 2011, 09:23 PM

I don't shoot plated, I cast my own. Since I get my led for free, it costs me about 2.50 for 50 rounds.

hk33ka1 · November 21, 2011, 11:54 PM

You may want to try cycling some dummy rounds through your pistol to see how they chamber. The plated bullets I used had a different nose shape than 230gr FMJ and had to be seated deaper around 1.20" to get the slide to close reliably on my 1911.

No point loading up 500 that won't chamber or cycle the slide on firing.

Jim243 · November 22, 2011, 01:53 AM

Quote:

How come Berry's doesn't step up and put out load data like most of the other manufactures

It cost money and Liability Ins. to bet your butt on publishing that kind of data, or so I have been told. And it does. Just don't get me started on Berry's bullets.

Jim

Sevens · November 22, 2011, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Just don't get me started on Berry's bullets.

Yeah, me either. Darn good bullets for a decent price with a fine company that backs 'em. I use 'em in six different sizes and all to great effect.

BDS-THR · November 22, 2011, 10:50 AM

You don't need to use the OAL listed on published load data as universal receivers/testing barrel fixtures used to measure chamber pressures are not real pistols and using published OALs WILL NOT ensure reliable feeding/chambering of finished rounds in YOUR pistols.

Berry's bullets are sized more like lead bullets and I use lead load data or start-to-mid level jacketed load data as Berry's website indicates.

Determining OAL should not be a guessing game and I use the following process for semi-auto loads whenever I use a new bullet to determine the Max and Ideal OAL:

Quote:

1. Make sure resized cases drop freely into the barrel chamber. If not, adjust the resizing die to ensure the cases are resized full-length and fall in freely into the chamber.

2. Determine Max OAL - Make a dummy round (no powder/primer) and perform the barrel drop test starting with the SAAMI max OAL until it falls in freely with a "plonk" and spin without hitting the start of rifling. To determine the amount of taper crimp to return the flare back to flat, I usually add .020" to the diameter of the bullet (So for .451" diameter bullet, .471" taper crimp and for .452" bullet, .472" taper crimp).

3. Determine Ideal OAL - Load the Max OAL dummy round in the magazine and manually release the slide without riding the slide with hand. Incrementally decrease the OAL until dummy round reliably feed/chamber. Depending on the pistol/barrel used, Ideal OAL that will work reliably will vary. If you are reloading for multiple pistols, use the Ideal OAL that will work reliably in all the pistols.

4. Conduct powder work up using Ideal OAL - Regardless of the scale used, I highly recommend the use of check weights to verify the accuracy of powder charges to 1/10 of grain (my accepted standard for match grade loads) - http://www.midwayusa.com/product/212...ight-check-set

Not all factory/aftermarket pistol barrels have the same groove diameter, leade length, rifling type as used in the test barrels to develop load data that result in different high pressure gas leakage and may require different powder charges to produce same chamber pressures. If you do not have a chrono (or can't use one because you are shooting at indoor ranges), I typically use consistent shot group sizes as indicator of consistent chamber pressures without exceeding published load data (when shorter OALs are used, I often use a slight buffer headroom near the max load data - maybe .2-.3 gr less).

Variations in the published load data are due to variations in reloading/testing components. Many post they will follow the bullet manufacturers' load data instead of powder manufacturers but the fact is even when using the same bullet, their pistol barrel may not duplicate the chamber pressures the test barrel fixtures produced.

Powder manufacturers do change formulation over time and I recommend the use of current published load data from various powder manufacturers (most current load data are usually available on Powder manufacturers' websites) while referencing bullet manufacturers' load data like Lyman #49 (under $17 and must have reference especially for lead reloads) - http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm...odID=LY9816049

Starting with the published start charge (or 10% below max), load 10 rounds of each increment of .1-.2 gr in powder charge. If using shorter OAL than published/typical for bullet type, I will decrease my start charge by .2-.3 gr. For initial range trip, 3 rounds are shot at 7-10-15 yards and shot groups are compared to identify charge range that reliably cycled the slide/extracted cases while looking for accuracy trends (usually 2-3 powder charges will stand out). On range trip #2 and subsequent trips, I will verify most accurate powder charges with 5 round shot groups at 7-10-15 yards (Typically, I will use 3 consecutive range tests to verify the accuracy of particularly accurate loads).

Conducting full work up allows you to identify the most accurate powder charge for the particular bullet/OAL combination and lighter target/plinking loads that still produce accurate shot groups while reliably cycling the slide/extracting the spent cases.

amamnn · November 22, 2011, 11:20 AM

Someone asked why plated instead of lead. Personally, I don't want to handle the lead or breathe it in while cooking and casting it, shooting it at the indoor range or while dealing with the dust in cleaning media and on patches and brushes. I handled and breathed enough of it back when we had no idea that it could be harmful, so I am protecting what brain cells I have left.

I am old enough to do what I want these days and I don't want to fool with gas checks any more. Berry's plated bullets work just as well as lead for my plinking purposes, and I only use jacketed HPs for my PP rounds. The price of the plated bullets is a bit less than jacketed, and that's a help.

brickeyee · November 22, 2011, 11:34 AM

Quote:

we have found best results using low- to mid-range jacketed data in the load manual.

That is what the lead bullets use.

Try comparing some data.

dunerjeff · November 22, 2011, 03:47 PM

Why plated instead of lead? My current situation after switching to lead 45 cal=plated 2 bullet types 1 185gr,1-200gr /for all three barrels
lead 2 bullet types but 1 @.451,[email protected] for each weight/thats twice as many bullets I need because lead has to be sized for each barrel

9mm 3 bullet types.plated=1-115gr,1-124/125gr,1-147gr,all bullets work in all barrels
lead=2 types but need every bullet in.356,357,.358 sizes to get rid of leading,thats three times as many bullets I need to buy.
40 cal=same as above
now enter ten times the $ amount spent on cemicals/choreboy/Lewis lead remover/Foul out system just to clean leading(which you will get)
Before switching I just had to clean once and a while just the gun itself not much the barrel(didn't need to,plated didn't foul it),now EVERY single time I shoot,clean the bore,clean the bore,clean the bore,ect,ect,,
But I will say Lead does tend to shoot more accurate,thats why I'm still doing it for now.(Just got to try to minimize that dang leading more)

Saying lead is so much cheaper is like driving 100 miles to buy something $10 less but not counting the $ in gas it took to get you there when bragging about how you saved. Casting your own, thats a different story

BDS-THR · November 22, 2011, 06:21 PM

While you are shooting 230 gr RN bullets, consider Berry's 185 gr HBRN bullets. Due to the hollow base which expands readily for more consistent chamber pressures, nose profile follows the heavier 230 gr RN bullet and feeds/chambers just as well.

I load the 185 gr HBRN to the same OAL as the 230 gr RN and it has produced good accuracy with less recoil. Another plus is that 185 gr bullet costs less than 230 gr bullet (Powder Valley stocks them for $108/1000).

Left is factory 230 gr FMJ RN and 185 gr HBRN on the right.

hk33ka1 · November 22, 2011, 07:33 PM

For those who don't want to be exposed to lead remember most primers use lead styphnate. It is in the air when you shoot, and it is in the cases that get tumbled and in the tumbler dust. You need to be careful in all stages of the handling of ammo if it is a concern.

Ozzieman · November 22, 2011, 09:25 PM

Saying lead is so much cheaper is like driving 100 miles to buy something $10 less but not counting the $ in gas it took to get you there when bragging about how you saved.

What?

If you’re having that much trouble with leading then the bullets you’re using are too soft.
I have shot 44 cal bullets at over 1400 fps out of a rifle without gas checks and the leading is not an issue. If you’re worried about leading get Penn in premium grade, they have a 20+ BHN and will take 1600 FPS with no leading and it’s still cheaper than plated.
Lead IS cheaper and I didn’t have to drive 100 miles to get it. And copper fouling is harder to clean than lead.

hk33ka1 · November 22, 2011, 09:30 PM

Most of the time leading is a result of boolit sizing issues more so than softness. Lube, velocity, and the type or condition of bore can also be a culprit but more often than not the bullet is too small for the barrel. Casting your own lets you choose the size your gun needs, not what is available at the local shop. The hardest bullet in the world can still lead if it is too small for the bore.

Jim243 · November 22, 2011, 09:43 PM

Quote:

more often than not the bullet is too small for the barrel.

You can say that again!!! In my case too small for three different barrels in three different guns. Something to do with a lack of quality control.

If you want decent plated bullets try Rocky Mountian Reloading. http://www.rmrbullets.com/

Longdayjake has some of the best, or at least I have bought 1,000s from him that I have never had a problem with.

Just my opinion.
Jim

November 20, 2011, 09:52 PM	#1
coptersteve Member Join Date: January 30, 2010 Location: Eagle Point Oregon Posts: 27	45 ACP and plated bullets Hello, Man am I frustrated, I went to this little guns and ammo shop looking for plated bullets. I bought 500 rounds of what I believe to be Berry's bullets,they were sold in bulk. 230 grain round nose. they measure .452". I searched everywhere for load data. the owner of the shop told me to use starting load data for FMJ in the same style bullet. My issue is the COAL, it's everywhere. I loaded 10 rounds, winchester brass, CCI LP primers and 4.5 grains of titegroup at 1.230 coal. But I have found COAL up to 1.270. Am I okay with this COAL or should I stretch it out a bit. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I have not been to the range yet. How come Berry's doesn't step up and put out load data like most of the other manufactures? Coptersteve

November 21, 2011, 09:53 AM	#9
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	In a round where you aren't toying with maximum pressures... And in .45 ACP where the pressures are quite reasonably low even at max... Find yourself an FMJ .45 factory load that runs & feeds well and if the profile/shape of the Berry's 230 grain plated RN is similar, simply copy the COAL. No, it will not result in the "same load" as factory, but it will likely feed and you can tweak the charge either way to your liking. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

November 21, 2011, 10:04 AM	#10
grubbylabs Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 2009 Location: Hansen Idaho Posts: 1,465	Speer's Gold Dot line is plated so you could use that data. The important thing with COL on a 45 is making sure that it functions reliably. Start with the longer COL and work your way down till your gun feeds reliably. If you have a 1911 platform you will likely be able to shoot almost any thing you put into it, however; if you have a XD like I do, you will find that they are pretty picky about what they feed as far as bullet profile and COL. __________________ * (Swinging club) Whack! whack! whack! * Nope, the old nag's still dead . (Capt Charlie) Last edited by grubbylabs; November 21, 2011 at 08:20 PM. Reason: spelling

November 21, 2011, 07:43 PM	#11
dickttx Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2011 Location: Fort Worth Posts: 500	"Plated bullet manufacturers generally recommend lead bullet load data be used for their plated bullets. E.G........ "We, at Rainier Ballistics, recommend using lead bullet load data..." True for Rainier. However, Berrys web site says: FAQ: How do I load Berry's Preferred Plated Bullets? Plated bullets occupy a position between cast bullets and jacketed bullets. They are soft lead, but have a hard outer shell on them. When loading plated bullets we have found best results using low- to mid-range jacketed data in the load manual. You must use data for a bullet that has the same weight and profile as the one you are loading. Do not exceed mid-range loads. Do not use magnum loads. __________________ Education teaches you the rules, experience teaches you the exceptions (Plagiarized from Claude Clay)

November 21, 2011, 09:23 PM	#13
grubbylabs Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 2009 Location: Hansen Idaho Posts: 1,465	I don't shoot plated, I cast my own. Since I get my led for free, it costs me about 2.50 for 50 rounds. __________________ * (Swinging club) Whack! whack! whack! * Nope, the old nag's still dead . (Capt Charlie)

November 20, 2011, 10:04 PM	#2
Orochimaru Member Join Date: September 11, 2011 Posts: 47	I use Berry's plated rounds in numerous calibers. The real secret behind them is to use enough powder to get them out of the barrel, and at the same time stay under about 1200 fps to avoid copper deposits. Starting at the low end of FMJ usually accomplishes this. Sometimes you can go all the way to the top of the FMJ data, other times you cannot. Going too low (into the lead range) is not a good idea. The plated bullets provide more resistance than their lead counterparts. I've seen COAL all over the place for 45ACP data, too. I might suggest loading 10 each at 1.230, 1.240, and 1.250 and see which, if any, your firearm seems to like to feed, cycle, and shoot the best. As for your load -- I think you're probably safe with it. You're 0.3 under the max load for a 230 Lead RN from the Hodgdon site, and it shows an even shorter COAL than you're using. I'll be interested to hear what others have to say about it, but it seems like a sane load to me. Why doesn't Berry's publish data? I have no idea. I've never had the need for it, although I generally don't flirt with either end of the velocity spectrum. If I was going to do so, I'd probably welcome it. As it stands, I've been able to just use the low end of typical FMJ data (or even Ranier data when available) and get good results.

November 20, 2011, 10:05 PM	#3
Shotgun693 Senior Member Join Date: September 3, 2011 Location: Poteet, Texas Posts: 959	You're getting an OAL variation from 1.230 up to 1.270? While I think that's more than I expect it's likely no big deal with handgun ammo. If It'll chamber I'd shoot it.

November 20, 2011, 10:07 PM	#4
Orochimaru Member Join Date: September 11, 2011 Posts: 47	I read the OP's comment to indicate that he is seeing loading data with COAL from 1.230 to 1.270. Is that what you meant, Coptersteve?

November 20, 2011, 10:10 PM	#5
jfrey Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Location: Coastal South Texas Posts: 557	I use the Berry's 200 gr flat point bullet at 1.200 so I would think that 1.230 to 1.240 would be good with the round point. Try them and see how they shoot in YOUR gun and go from there.

November 20, 2011, 10:20 PM	#6
Hammerhead Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,432	I use jacketed bullet data with plated bullets in auto pistol cartridges, your far less likely to stick a bullet in the bore that way. My chrono says that plated bullets match up well with FMJ data, especially with Hodgdon FMJ data. You can use lead data, but don't start at the bottom.

November 20, 2011, 10:31 PM	#7
tom234 Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 2008 Location: Kansas Posts: 753	Plated bullet manufacturers generally recommend lead bullet load data be used for their plated bullets. E.G........ "We, at Rainier Ballistics, recommend using lead bullet load data when loading our bullets. There is no need for adjustment when using lead bullet load data. Our bullets are jacketed using an electroplating process and are softer than traditionally jacketed bullets; hence the recommendation to use lead bullet load data. If you only have access to traditionally jacketed load data, we recommend reducing maximum charge by 10%. A roll or taper crimp may be used with our bullets; do not over crimp. " http://www.rainierballistics.com/mainframe.htm

November 21, 2011, 08:04 AM	#8
Charlie98 Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2006 Location: Great state of Texas Posts: 1,077	I think the plated bullets are fine for medium range bullets, if you want to drive them to max velocity, I would recommend going with a traditional FMJ design (or copper jacketed design.) A variance in OAL like that isn't a big deal, like one poster suggested, maybe load a few with different OAL's and see how they function if you think it's going to be a problem.

November 21, 2011, 08:50 PM	#12
Ozzieman Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 6,117	I’m kind of curious why those of you that use plated bullets chose them over good quality lead? Other that indoor range restrictions for lead I don’t see the reason to spend the added price of shooting plated over lead and my experience with plated (which is limited to 9mm only) lead was more accurate. Penn bullets: 230 45 ACP, 1000 for 90$ Cabalas Rainier 230 RN ACP, 500 for 80$ The other advantage with the Penn bullets is that you can get them sized from .451 to .455. http://www.pennbullets.com/45/45-caliber.html To me lead always wins.

November 21, 2011, 11:54 PM	#14
hk33ka1 Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2010 Posts: 275	You may want to try cycling some dummy rounds through your pistol to see how they chamber. The plated bullets I used had a different nose shape than 230gr FMJ and had to be seated deaper around 1.20" to get the slide to close reliably on my 1911. No point loading up 500 that won't chamber or cycle the slide on firing.

November 22, 2011, 11:20 AM	#18
amamnn Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2006 Location: WA, the left armpit of the USA Posts: 1,323	Someone asked why plated instead of lead. Personally, I don't want to handle the lead or breathe it in while cooking and casting it, shooting it at the indoor range or while dealing with the dust in cleaning media and on patches and brushes. I handled and breathed enough of it back when we had no idea that it could be harmful, so I am protecting what brain cells I have left. I am old enough to do what I want these days and I don't want to fool with gas checks any more. Berry's plated bullets work just as well as lead for my plinking purposes, and I only use jacketed HPs for my PP rounds. The price of the plated bullets is a bit less than jacketed, and that's a help. __________________ "If the enemy is in range, so are you." - Infantry Journal Last edited by amamnn; November 22, 2011 at 11:25 AM.

November 22, 2011, 03:47 PM	#20
dunerjeff Senior Member Join Date: March 31, 2011 Location: central Wisconsin Posts: 440	Why plated instead of lead? My current situation after switching to lead 45 cal=plated 2 bullet types 1 185gr,1-200gr /for all three barrels lead 2 bullet types but 1 @.451,[email protected] for each weight/thats twice as many bullets I need because lead has to be sized for each barrel 9mm 3 bullet types.plated=1-115gr,1-124/125gr,1-147gr,all bullets work in all barrels lead=2 types but need every bullet in.356,357,.358 sizes to get rid of leading,thats three times as many bullets I need to buy. 40 cal=same as above now enter ten times the $ amount spent on cemicals/choreboy/Lewis lead remover/Foul out system just to clean leading(which you will get) Before switching I just had to clean once and a while just the gun itself not much the barrel(didn't need to,plated didn't foul it),now EVERY single time I shoot,clean the bore,clean the bore,clean the bore,ect,ect,, But I will say Lead does tend to shoot more accurate,thats why I'm still doing it for now.(Just got to try to minimize that dang leading more) Saying lead is so much cheaper is like driving 100 miles to buy something $10 less but not counting the $ in gas it took to get you there when bragging about how you saved. Casting your own, thats a different story

November 22, 2011, 06:21 PM	#21
BDS-THR Senior Member Join Date: June 12, 2010 Posts: 479	While you are shooting 230 gr RN bullets, consider Berry's 185 gr HBRN bullets. Due to the hollow base which expands readily for more consistent chamber pressures, nose profile follows the heavier 230 gr RN bullet and feeds/chambers just as well. I load the 185 gr HBRN to the same OAL as the 230 gr RN and it has produced good accuracy with less recoil. Another plus is that 185 gr bullet costs less than 230 gr bullet (Powder Valley stocks them for $108/1000). Left is factory 230 gr FMJ RN and 185 gr HBRN on the right. Last edited by BDS-THR; November 22, 2011 at 06:30 PM.

November 22, 2011, 07:33 PM	#22
hk33ka1 Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2010 Posts: 275	For those who don't want to be exposed to lead remember most primers use lead styphnate. It is in the air when you shoot, and it is in the cases that get tumbled and in the tumbler dust. You need to be careful in all stages of the handling of ammo if it is a concern.

November 22, 2011, 09:25 PM	#23
Ozzieman Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 6,117	Saying lead is so much cheaper is like driving 100 miles to buy something $10 less but not counting the $ in gas it took to get you there when bragging about how you saved. What? If you’re having that much trouble with leading then the bullets you’re using are too soft. I have shot 44 cal bullets at over 1400 fps out of a rifle without gas checks and the leading is not an issue. If you’re worried about leading get Penn in premium grade, they have a 20+ BHN and will take 1600 FPS with no leading and it’s still cheaper than plated. Lead IS cheaper and I didn’t have to drive 100 miles to get it. And copper fouling is harder to clean than lead.

November 22, 2011, 09:30 PM	#24
hk33ka1 Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2010 Posts: 275	Most of the time leading is a result of boolit sizing issues more so than softness. Lube, velocity, and the type or condition of bore can also be a culprit but more often than not the bullet is too small for the barrel. Casting your own lets you choose the size your gun needs, not what is available at the local shop. The hardest bullet in the world can still lead if it is too small for the bore.