Berettas in Production Class

HKguy9 · April 22, 2002, 12:16 PM

Would a Beretta 92FS Brigadier with an LTT Level ONE job (includes D-spring) and Novak night sights be IPSC Production class legal?

Kamicosmos · April 23, 2002, 06:23 PM

While I don't have them in front of me (ok, so I'm too lazy to open a second browser window!)
I believe a Beretta in that configuration is completely legal for stock/production class. The trigger job you mentioned is mainly just a sear polishing, and maybe a new trigger piece, and the rules specifically allow for mild trigger jobs, different sights and grips that would be on a carry gun, and springs can be changed within reason.

Now, I could be wrong, I haven't read the rules in about a year, so there could be huge changes I am not aware of. (ie is Production class new? or just how you refer to Stock Class?) In which case my Beretta 96FS with Landon level one trigger job, 96D springs, and adjustable Millet sights is NOT in the right class!! Not to mention all those Elite models out there...although they may be restricted to Modified Class now that I think about it...

HKguy9 · April 23, 2002, 08:36 PM

The Elite II is still listed as an approved gun for Production, but I have LTT's parts on it (SS guiderod, speedbump trigger) so I think that puts me in limited, scored minor, that's why I'm looking to get another Beretta for a dedicated IPSC gun.

ryucasta · April 23, 2002, 08:38 PM

Why dont you just ask Jojo over at Norco.

ryucasta · April 23, 2002, 08:40 PM

BTW, in IDPA that would still be considered legal since you are using stainless not tungsten parts.

HKguy9 · April 23, 2002, 09:05 PM

I think it puts me in ESP instead of SSP though. I'll ask Jojo but I kind of want the "official IPSC" scoop on my proposed equipment...my 92 as it stands is a Limited gun, which means I'll be scored minor.... oh well, time to fire up the phone

ryucasta · April 23, 2002, 09:24 PM

This extract comes straight from the latest USPSA manual. Hope it answers your question.

HKguy9 · April 23, 2002, 09:35 PM

Actually, it doesn't cuz the D-hammerspring is really a gray area...

It's not supplied by the factory, but the spring, which is included in LTT's action job, is a factory part, but it didn't come off the shelf like that...

Also, I wonder if new sights are an 'external modification to a factory part'

Hmmmmmmmmmm Too many rules, man I just wanna shoot something

ryucasta · April 23, 2002, 09:50 PM

Just stay clear of my squad since I have a family to feed

eerw · April 23, 2002, 11:53 PM

"If it is a specific factory produced part, that is offered on another model of their gun, then it is legal to replace the part with the gun you have, with the part from a gun of a different model.

Example, a Glock model 17 does not come from the factory with an extended mag release, but a model 35 does, both are legal in Production, so the interchange of the part is legal as well.

Sorry for any confusion and I hope that this explains things better for
you.

DVC,
John"

Skunkabilly..you should be ok...the above is an email from Amidon on an ext mag release that is offered the 34/35 glock..and his statement is that it would be ok to install the part on a 17 as it is a factory part..

so with that logic..the D spring should be a go, and the novak sights should be a go as they are on the E2..I wouldn't worry about them being night sights as giving you any decided advantage..

later

vetts1911 · April 28, 2002, 05:40 PM

We just had this talk at the last match and some of the big dawgs were saying all internal mods were cool but, if you look at the rules they are not and the book says 5 #lb trigger is the ony type authorized that would put out the 34/35 out to the L10 and not production. I would say at a local match it fly but not at a sectional and above match. The rules are harder than IDPA for production. USPSA wanted to make a very even playing feild for this class. This calss lets a box stock come out and play. Please check www.uspsa.com and e-mail for the real line to this.

HKguy9 · April 28, 2002, 09:52 PM

For the life of me I couldn't successfully navigate USPSA's page and find it, so I e-mailed the NROI, I suppose he's the final word, so that's good enough to me.

Still, I'm gonna carry my 'paper's (printouts of the e-mails) incase I take any crap, but they're pretty liberal where I shoot, but there's always a few people who take themselves too seriously. You know, your IPSC lawyers.

eerw · April 28, 2002, 11:51 PM

Only IPSC production has the 5lb rule on triggers and the Glock 34 and 35 are allowed in USPSA Production

From USPSA rulebook
IPSC Production

1.Minimum caliber is 9mm
2.Minimum Power factor 125-scored as Major
3.Maximum barrel length is 127 mm (5").
4.External modifications or replacement of factory components specifically not allowed.
5.Internal replacement of factory components not allowed.
6.Internal modifications such as polishing or detailing of factory components are allowed.
7.Single Action Pistols not allowed.
8.Minimum trigger pull 5 lbs (2.272 kg.)
9.The holster and allied equipment (magazine pouches) must be worn behind the anterior superior spina iliaca or the highest, most forward point on the pelvic girdle. The maximum inside distance of the handgun and equipment may not be more than 50 mm from the competitor's torso while standing relaxed. Range Master may use reasonable discretion.
10.All magazines must conform to the pistol manufacturer's original equipment specifications. Only magazines supplied as standard equipment with the firearm are acceptable. High capacity and extra capacity (e.g. +2) magazines are specifically not allowed. After market magazines may be substituted as long as they are the same overall length as the manufacturer's original.

USPSA Production
1.Minimum caliber is 9mm
2.Minimum Power factor 125-scored as Minor
3.Maximum barrel length is 127 mm (5").
4.Single Action Pistols not allowed. First shot must be double action.
5.The holster and allied equipment (magazine pouches) must be worn behind the center of hip bone.
6.Slip on grip sock and/or skateboard tape is allowed.
7.Action work to enhance reliability (throating, trigger work, etc.) is allowed.
8.External modifications other than sights not allowed
9.Heavy barrels and /or barrel sleeves (factory or after market) not allowed.
10.Competition holsters of the race gun type specifically are not allowed.
11.No weighted attachments allowed to magazines.

April 22, 2002, 12:16 PM	#1
HKguy9 Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2001 Posts: 2,132	Berettas in Production Class Would a Beretta 92FS Brigadier with an LTT Level ONE job (includes D-spring) and Novak night sights be IPSC Production class legal? __________________ P7M8, VP9

April 23, 2002, 06:23 PM	#2
Kamicosmos Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2002 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Posts: 193	should fit the rules While I don't have them in front of me (ok, so I'm too lazy to open a second browser window!) I believe a Beretta in that configuration is completely legal for stock/production class. The trigger job you mentioned is mainly just a sear polishing, and maybe a new trigger piece, and the rules specifically allow for mild trigger jobs, different sights and grips that would be on a carry gun, and springs can be changed within reason. Now, I could be wrong, I haven't read the rules in about a year, so there could be huge changes I am not aware of. (ie is Production class new? or just how you refer to Stock Class?) In which case my Beretta 96FS with Landon level one trigger job, 96D springs, and adjustable Millet sights is NOT in the right class!! Not to mention all those Elite models out there...although they may be restricted to Modified Class now that I think about it... __________________ "Dreams only have meaning because we struggle in the waking world." -- Major Motoko Kusanagi GitS:SAC Member of NRA and Western Missouri Shooters Alliance

April 23, 2002, 08:36 PM	#3
HKguy9 Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2001 Posts: 2,132	The Elite II is still listed as an approved gun for Production, but I have LTT's parts on it (SS guiderod, speedbump trigger) so I think that puts me in limited, scored minor, that's why I'm looking to get another Beretta for a dedicated IPSC gun. __________________ P7M8, VP9

April 23, 2002, 08:38 PM	#4
ryucasta Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 431	Why dont you just ask Jojo over at Norco. __________________ Cheers, Raul Scarface/Tony Montana Says: Send me here. Send me there. This. That. Nothing you can do to me Harry, Castro didn’t do --- nothing...

April 23, 2002, 08:40 PM	#5
ryucasta Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 431	BTW, in IDPA that would still be considered legal since you are using stainless not tungsten parts. __________________ Cheers, Raul Scarface/Tony Montana Says: Send me here. Send me there. This. That. Nothing you can do to me Harry, Castro didn’t do --- nothing...

April 23, 2002, 09:05 PM	#6
HKguy9 Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2001 Posts: 2,132	I think it puts me in ESP instead of SSP though. I'll ask Jojo but I kind of want the "official IPSC" scoop on my proposed equipment...my 92 as it stands is a Limited gun, which means I'll be scored minor.... oh well, time to fire up the phone __________________ P7M8, VP9

April 23, 2002, 09:35 PM	#8
HKguy9 Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2001 Posts: 2,132	Actually, it doesn't cuz the D-hammerspring is really a gray area... It's not supplied by the factory, but the spring, which is included in LTT's action job, is a factory part, but it didn't come off the shelf like that... Also, I wonder if new sights are an 'external modification to a factory part' Hmmmmmmmmmm Too many rules, man I just wanna shoot something __________________ P7M8, VP9

April 23, 2002, 09:50 PM	#9
ryucasta Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 431	Just stay clear of my squad since I have a family to feed __________________ Cheers, Raul Scarface/Tony Montana Says: Send me here. Send me there. This. That. Nothing you can do to me Harry, Castro didn’t do --- nothing...

April 23, 2002, 11:53 PM	#10
eerw Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2001 Posts: 395	"If it is a specific factory produced part, that is offered on another model of their gun, then it is legal to replace the part with the gun you have, with the part from a gun of a different model. Example, a Glock model 17 does not come from the factory with an extended mag release, but a model 35 does, both are legal in Production, so the interchange of the part is legal as well. Sorry for any confusion and I hope that this explains things better for you. DVC, John" Skunkabilly..you should be ok...the above is an email from Amidon on an ext mag release that is offered the 34/35 glock..and his statement is that it would be ok to install the part on a 17 as it is a factory part.. so with that logic..the D spring should be a go, and the novak sights should be a go as they are on the E2..I wouldn't worry about them being night sights as giving you any decided advantage.. later

April 28, 2002, 05:40 PM	#11
vetts1911 Member Join Date: March 26, 2002 Location: MARYLAND Posts: 65	We just had this talk at the last match and some of the big dawgs were saying all internal mods were cool but, if you look at the rules they are not and the book says 5 #lb trigger is the ony type authorized that would put out the 34/35 out to the L10 and not production. I would say at a local match it fly but not at a sectional and above match. The rules are harder than IDPA for production. USPSA wanted to make a very even playing feild for this class. This calss lets a box stock come out and play. Please check www.uspsa.com and e-mail for the real line to this.

April 28, 2002, 09:52 PM	#12
HKguy9 Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2001 Posts: 2,132	For the life of me I couldn't successfully navigate USPSA's page and find it, so I e-mailed the NROI, I suppose he's the final word, so that's good enough to me. Still, I'm gonna carry my 'paper's (printouts of the e-mails) incase I take any crap, but they're pretty liberal where I shoot, but there's always a few people who take themselves too seriously. You know, your IPSC lawyers. __________________ P7M8, VP9

April 28, 2002, 11:51 PM	#13
eerw Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2001 Posts: 395	Only IPSC production has the 5lb rule on triggers and the Glock 34 and 35 are allowed in USPSA Production From USPSA rulebook IPSC Production 1.Minimum caliber is 9mm 2.Minimum Power factor 125-scored as Major 3.Maximum barrel length is 127 mm (5"). 4.External modifications or replacement of factory components specifically not allowed. 5.Internal replacement of factory components not allowed. 6.Internal modifications such as polishing or detailing of factory components are allowed. 7.Single Action Pistols not allowed. 8.Minimum trigger pull 5 lbs (2.272 kg.) 9.The holster and allied equipment (magazine pouches) must be worn behind the anterior superior spina iliaca or the highest, most forward point on the pelvic girdle. The maximum inside distance of the handgun and equipment may not be more than 50 mm from the competitor's torso while standing relaxed. Range Master may use reasonable discretion. 10.All magazines must conform to the pistol manufacturer's original equipment specifications. Only magazines supplied as standard equipment with the firearm are acceptable. High capacity and extra capacity (e.g. +2) magazines are specifically not allowed. After market magazines may be substituted as long as they are the same overall length as the manufacturer's original. USPSA Production 1.Minimum caliber is 9mm 2.Minimum Power factor 125-scored as Minor 3.Maximum barrel length is 127 mm (5"). 4.Single Action Pistols not allowed. First shot must be double action. 5.The holster and allied equipment (magazine pouches) must be worn behind the center of hip bone. 6.Slip on grip sock and/or skateboard tape is allowed. 7.Action work to enhance reliability (throating, trigger work, etc.) is allowed. 8.External modifications other than sights not allowed 9.Heavy barrels and /or barrel sleeves (factory or after market) not allowed. 10.Competition holsters of the race gun type specifically are not allowed. 11.No weighted attachments allowed to magazines.