What's a great 38 sp. SD ammo?

[Doc Holliday 1950]

I have 2 great revolvers. the first is a Ruger GP 100 4.2" 357 in magnum & the second is a EEA Windicator 2" in 357 magnum. The Ruger will handle any 38 special & any 357 magnum ammo. The Windicator can handle any 38 special & some 357 magnum at 110 or 125 grains. As an all around SD ammo I have both
Remington 38 special 125 grain HP Golden Saber ammo & Winchester 130 gr.
HP Ranger ammo. Having a 4.2" & a 2" 357 in magnum I had to split the difference and choose one or the other. I know most will say Gold Dots at 125 gr. 38 sp. ammo, but I chose to go a different way.
What are your thoughts and comments on my choices?? All answers are as always accepted and wanted.

[Cheapshooter]

Speer Gold Dot +P Short Barrel 135 gr. for my LCR.
Curious though, why your bullet weight limitation for the Windicator?

[Psychedelic Bang]

I shot Federal Hyrdra Shok 110 grains for the longest time. Last time I was at the range I left with a box of Hornady Critical defense.. I haven't been back to shoot some of it yet.

It is.. 110 grains, I just looked at the box.

I remember I told the sales dude specifically, "I do not want +P and I want a low grain bullet."

This is due to my arthritis - I've been stricken with arthritis all my life. Its why I carry a revolver, its why I am picky with my ammo.

So why am I trying the Critical Defense? Its got great ballistics.

Here is the official commercial

[stormyone]

Buffalo Bore has an excellent 158gr 38 special semi wad cutter hollow cavity bullet.

1,000fps/M.E. 351 ft.lbs - that’s from a 2” barrel. That’s a serious self defense round.

[Water-Man]

https://underwoodammo.com/product/ha...reme-defender/
I like this Underwood ammo.

[Buckeye!]

Federal has a new 38 spl 130gr HST ...
I use Underwood 125gr XTP +P

[Scoits]

I load remington’s Ultimate Defense 38+ p in my S&W 360 and do not find it difficult.

[Hal]

I've tried tons and keep going back to...

158 grain, standard pressure,,,,,Nyclad.

Too bad they aren't made any more.

Go here and read the entire site:

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/

The late Stephen Camp ( he was also a member/staff member here at TFL) has a lot of good real world info in guns and loads.
He was a retired detective & his writing style is "just the facts m'am" straight forward.

It's been a while since I went over his stuff - but - I believe he mentions the "FBI load" - which is a cast lead semi wad cutter hollow point - +P (158 gr +P SWCHP)
Remington still makes one - https://images.remington-catalog.com/56899bc5bfc49

Excellent load - well thought of by a lot of people on this forum.

[Nanuk]

Great self defense load and 38 Special do not go together. Probably the best is the Buffalo bore load above. Baring that the old FBI/Chicago PD load is about as good as one can expect from a 38 Special. Exacerbate that buy using a snubby and you have a bad situation.

[Radny97]

I respectfully disagree with Nanuk. 38 special has many great offerings of excellent self defense ammo. Anyone who feels differently is ill-informed. Frankly, when it comes to actual terminal ballistics (not endless and meaningless backyard ballistic gel tests) then it turns out that there really isn’t a big difference between all the handgun defensive load calibers. As long as you choose something that will cut a .32 or larger hole about 12 inches deep, the rest is up to your marksmanship and chance. This is the underlying reason for the FBI move back to 9mm. They all are about the same (now) with 9mm appearing to perform on par with some of the other great performers but offered in platforms of greater capacity.
So yes 38 special is a very fine defensive caliber and will serve you well.
I like the current Buffalo Bore offerings. Gold Dots are great too. I’m interested in the new Federal HST as well but have not tested it.


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[RMcL]

Actually a full power hard cast wadcutter load from a commercial source, would be the most consistent performer availble!

See:

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...t_detail&p=111

[Psychedelic Bang]

I was too tired to find this last night. I saw this posted in another thread here on the forum.. Notice how the Hydra Shok out of the 2 inch falls a little short of FBI standards but the Critical Defense (non +P) falls well within

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/rev...cs-test/#38spl

Anyways, these modern self defense loads in 380, 38, and of course 9 are all said to perform very well. Going back to the FBI - they developed the 40 sw after the Miami shootouts.. but they have recently switched to the 9 complaining about cost and recoil. The 9 is far more easier to shoot for the vast majority of the agents.

So it comes down to this - you know how many people have arthritis, or very little handgun training, or not $$$ to go to various defense classes, are not police officers, or veterans and just want a gun for self defense - the vast majority of these types of people get sold on striker fired 9's and would probably be far better served by the 5 shot j frame in 38 special

[Dan-O]

A 158 gr lswc over a stiff charge of Unique.

[Buckeye!]

https://youtu.be/YgGjNQ_hhIQ

Federal 130gr HST

[SonOfScubaDiver]

Lucky gunner did a test of several 38 spl SD rounds using both 2" and 4" revolvers. I found the results to be very interesting. They actually have me thinking about trying out 148gr lead hollow base wadcutter ammo in my LCR. In terms of consistent penetration, it performed very well. Hornady's 110gr +p CD performed very consistently in terms of expansion.

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/rev...llistics-test/

[Radny97]

Lucky gunners data is interesting as far as it goes, but I find it interesting that he failed to test one of the loads that always gets recommended for 38 special carry. The Buffalo Bore offerings. He only tested Buffalo Bore in 357 mag. Seems like a very odd omission to me. Maybe Buffalo Bore did not pay him enough to include it in the test, or maybe it’s because he does not stock or sell B.B. in 38 special.
Lucky gunner is in the ammo sales business, and these tests and data drive sales on his website. But I find it odd that he does not stock any B.B. offerings in 38 special and also failed to test those loads. Very odd indeed.


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[DPris]

I'm impressed with the new Federal 130 HST.
Denis

[Buckeye!]

Seem like the above mentioned Federal 130gr HST is listed as a +P , but by evidence of the lack of recoil and lower velocity the round lays in between a standard load & +P ...
I have a couple of 12 oz of Charter 38spl snubbies ( actually weigh in at 11oz with the old style wooden panel grips) That behave a bit jumpy with +P loads .. I carry Hornady 110 gr FTX stanard pressure and/ or 148 gr Wadcutters...
In my Taurus 605 357mag I carry Underwood 38Spl 125gr +P Gold dots and Hornady 357 mag 125 gr FTX ...
But that Federal 130gr HST seems like a winner !

[Mike Irwin]

I use Speer 135-gr. Gold Dot.

[TruthTellers]

Out of short barrels, I really like the Hornady Critical Defense stuff, specifically the Lite and standard pressure. The Lite feels like a .22, it has almost no recoil, but when I look at the data from luckygunner, it penetrates sufficiently deep for my desires, which is home defense.

With 4 inch barrels, it's hard to argue with anything Remington brand, which is the only time I'll every say anything good about Remington anything. Except maybe .22 Yellow Jacket.

[Dave T]

...would probably be far better served by the 5 shot j frame in 38 special...

Couldn't disagree with this more. My last 6 years in law enforcement I was the chief firearms instructor for my department (400 armed personnel). I was responsible for all the training and qualification, including off duty weapons and concealed weapons worn by detectives and undercover deputies. I saw a lot of rounds fired down range in those 6 years and very, very few people could shoot 2", 5-shot 38 Specials well, particularly when pushed with tight time limits.

When I retired I ran my own firearms training business, qualifying people for concealed carry permits and teaching self defense classes. I did that for 10 years and saw a lot more rounds fired down range. Again, very, very few people could shoot 2" J-frames acceptably let alone well.

Every one tells me you'll only have to shoot 2-3 yards in a self defense situation so the little, difficult to control guns are no problem. I've seen way too many people miss at close distance on nice sunny days when no one was shooting back or threatening them, just me yelling to "shoot, shoot, shoot".

YMMV,
Dave

[Andy Blozinski]

.38 special short barrel: Speer Gold Dot +P Short Barrel 135 gr.
.357 magnum 4" barrel: Hornady XTP 158 grain.

[jrothWA]

Have never used it in any SD situation, I have alway ike the early Hornady 140 XTP loads in .38Spl, for both J & K frame usage.

Wish they remake those with differnt powder , to get them closer to 1000fps velocity and standard pressure.

[Psychedelic Bang]

Originally Posted by Dave T

Every one tells me you'll only have to shoot 2-3 yards in a self defense situation so the little, difficult to control guns are no problem. I've seen way too many people miss at close distance on nice sunny days when no one was shooting back or threatening them, just me yelling to "shoot, shoot, shoot".

YMMV,
Dave

If that is the logic, than a logical conclusion to draw would also be that small auto's are no better than j frames.

Another logical conclusion is that the people who miss with j frames, would also miss with mid-size autos. (remember, by your logic - a small gun, is a small gun ie small autos are not acceptable.)

So logically, you would have to say something to the effect of, "The vast majority of people would be far better served by mid-size or larger semi autos in self defense situations." imho, that may very well be true. I'm no expert... I'm just going by what I've seen, read, and learned.

Also, I appreciate your background in law enforcement, as a trainer/instructor, and I concur that a j frame revolver is difficult to shoot - albeit no more difficult than a small/pocket or even sub-compact auto.

imho, really my opinion, I think one has to go mid-size or larger, revolver or auto if they want shoot-ability.

[Dave T]

Psy Bang,

Since this is a revolver forum I didn't even get into small semi autos. The horrible shooting I've seen with the diminutive 22s and 25s was sad to behold and sadder to remember.

Dave