S.W.A.T. wannabe

[Capt. Charlie]

Originally Posted by cannonfire

Originally I wanted to be a chiropractor but after realizing that I like guns and kicking in doors too much, I decided that I ideally would like to be part of the FBI HRT or FBI SWAT.

First off cannonfire, thank you for your service, and while your military experience can definitely be a plus, you need to understand that, while the tactics employed by SWAT and the military are often similar, their missions are usually much different.

You also need to know that you don't choose SWAT, they choose you. And while physical conditioning is important, they primarily look for officers who can think, act, and keep their cool under intense pressure.

What we're NOT looking for is people who "like guns and kicking in doors". I understand and appreciate your zeal, but I strongly suggest you tone it down. Making that statement to a SWAT recruiter will undoubtedly get you passed over.

SWAT teams are the elite of any department. As such, competition to join is intense, and officers are almost always required to put years on the streets, doing the job of basic LE, before you can even apply. Your service record during that time, along with your disciplinary record and psych profile, will all be subject to intense scrutiny.

Understand, I'm not trying to discourage you, and I sincerely wish you luck, but these are things you need to know going in.

All that said, some may have noticed that a few posts have disappeared. Posts lacking civility, or even suggesting "jack-booted thugs" will be deleted.

Keep it civil, please!

[MauiDoc]

Hey, Cannonfire, I was 28 before I went to chiropractic school, and I was about the median age for people in my class. We had from 17 to 48 years old. (I went thru the fraternity pledging with the 48-year-old--he said it was harder than his basic training had been!). Do both--why not?

Fitness- look at tacfit.com Pretty intense bodyweight exercises, geared toward someone who is loaded with gear (like SpecOps, SWAT, or Gecko45, I suppose!)

Chiropractic is very rewarding mentally, not much of a physical challenge, and can be very lucrative as well.

I say do both, just take your time.

[45Gunner]

I like guns and kicking in doors too much,

Dude,

As someone mentioned, that kind of attitude is probably the best type of attitude to prevent you from being selected from serious law enforcement. It could be better stated, "I prefer to maintain the peace and safety of citizens and utilize my training to the best of my ability to prevent others from violating that peace and safety, seeing that those that would violate the rights of others be brought to a speedy trial."

If you want to shoot and kick down doors, become a bounty hunter.

[Ian0351]

+1 to changing your major from CJ to pretty much anything else. CJ is a great major for corrections or local law enforcement. My dad (a complete layman, but nonetheless very knowledgeable person about a broad range of topics) always insisted that most FBI agents have degrees in either Law(pre-law) or Accounting... Makes sense to me considering the predominantly investigative nature of that service.
If I were in your situation I would try to get up to 300 PFT and go Marine Security Guard(MSG embassy duty) active duty; it's one of the most elite duties in the military, sends you all over the world and has a very encompassing training regimen of security, anti-terrorism and diplomatic disciplines... Be warned, however, that the school has a very high attrition rate. If you finish your degree and get a commission, and are a "Billy Badass" as you envision yourself (not saying you're not, only you really know) you could try for the F.A.S.T. team, Force Recon, or a bevy of 'No-such-agency' assignments on the laurels of your experience.
If you are dead set on the SWAT experience, I would suggest that the quickest route (again, dependent on your mental and physical prowess) to kicking down doors and locking up bad guys is with a State Police agency, maybe Florida (which traditionally makes room in their state budget for hiring and training new LEOs) or Maryland, which is close enough to DC to start networking your way into those sweet Homeland Security Gigs and keep your military years (especially if you manage at least 0-2 in the Green Machine) for your Federal Paygrade.

Oohrah Devil Dog.

[JohnH1963]

Why would you want the SWAT job when you can have a more exciting job which is front-line patrol officer? You seem to want action and the real action starts on the patrol as the first responder.

The SWAT team just comes to secure the area for the coroner and faces down barricaded suspects. Solution? Throw some gas in there and wait until he comes out coughing. Serving a warrant? Just come crashing in when everyone is sleeping at the crack of dawn with 10 of your buddies loaded down with M4s....no problem. Have some guy in the street with a weapon? Just have the snipers get him from a couple football fields away.

The real excitement is facing down the public and responding to calls armed with just a pistol and sometimes little or no backup. That is the real job right there and the backbone of law enforcement.

[FreakGasolineFight]

Originally I wanted to be a chiropractor but after realizing that I like guns and kicking in doors too much, I decided that I ideally would like to be part of the FBI HRT or FBI SWAT.

Nobody should like 'kicking in doors'. FBI and SWAT kick in doors because sometimes they have to. NOT because they 'like' it. Or at least I hope not. This is exactly why I tend to dislike most younger military people I know--because most of them joined because they think 'kicking in doors is cool' or 'I want to kill some m******** Iraqis' or what have you. Violence is sometimes necessary, but it is never 'cool'. This is something you need to get into your head before you take on any job with any sort of responsibility.

Or, if you can't stomach that, I'm sure your local McDonald's is hiring.

[cannonfire]

So because I enjoy conducting searches and raids but don't want to stay in the military forever I should look into McDonalds? That doesn't make much sense. Nobody would join a tactical team if they did not enjoy that kind of thing. Its great to know that you have to put in your negative comment when I am simply asking from people who have done it how I could prepare for it. But assuming that you never did anything like that, you should not put your two cents in, its worthless. But your sarcasm and "know-it-all attitude" is appreciated, thanks, now that you sent me your wisdom I'll go look at a McDonalds, even though I like Burger King better.

P.S. I never said anything about being "cool" but thanks again. Now that I think about it, I can't stomach it. So I guess I'll go back to wearing my backwards hat and my pants off my waist and listening to my rap music.

[Ben Towe]

Cannonfire, I agree that you have to enjoy the rush and the thrill of a raid to be a member of such a team. Not the killing or the blood mind you, but I can understand enjoying the rush. If you don't you'll never make it. That said, you have to keep that emotion in check, you can't turn into Rambo at the drop of a hat. But anyway, best wishes in your endeavors!

[hogdogs]

Violence is sometimes necessary, but it is never 'cool'.

The above is 100% personal opinion!
Lemme show you some other similar opinion biased observations...
"guns are sometimes necessary but they are never cool"
"watches are sometimes necessary but they are never cool"
"boots are sometimes necessary but they are never cool"
"pencil sharpeners are sometimes necessary but they are never cool"


The competitors, promoters, sponsors and viewers of MMA fighting would also disagree about how you feel about violence and "cool"...

In my younger and much healthier days, I really liked a good scrap of my choosin' no matter how the guy on the other end felt about it.

Brent

[FreakGasolineFight]

"guns are sometimes necessary but they are never cool"
"watches are sometimes necessary but they are never cool"
"boots are sometimes necessary but they are never cool"
"pencil sharpeners are sometimes necessary but they are never cool"

Guns are always cool. Killing someone with a gun is sometimes necessary but never cool.
I don't wear a watch myself.
Boots are uber-cool.
Pencil sharpeners are never cool. At least, not as far as I know.

As far as 'a good scrap', I've never gotten into a physical fight without good reason. As a matter of fact, I've only gotten into two fights. First time, I was in a bar and some guy was pressuring a girl into going home with him, physically pressuring her, and she very much didn't want to. I believed that he was looking into gettin' some against her will and I intervened. The second time a man who was obviously very drunk tried to get me to give him a ride to the next town over and when I refused he got threatening. I won both fights. But I did not seek them out and neither did I enjoy them. I did only what was necessary and no more.

BTW nice Viper engine, though I'd prefer to see it in a Viper.

@ Cannonfire: All I'm sayin' is that the kind of gung-ho attitude I've seen quite a bit, again, in some of my military friends is not the right way to go about it. Something more along the lines of "This is cool because I'm protecting innocent civilians and apprehending evildoers" would be more in line with the kind of mentality I think that most of us like to see in our Law Enforcement.

You're welcome to choose Burger King over McDonald's. I'm rather partial to their breakfast food myself.

[JohnH1963]

Here is the reality of being in the military and any law enforcement organization. Most of your time is not spent busting through doors, but simply just sitting around waiting for something to happen. When I joined the military, I thought each day would be another adventure and I had that gung-ho attitude. Well, a lot of my time was spent simply sitting around bored waiting for something to happen.

While there are some guys that might see action everyday in the military or in a law enforcement organization, those guys are few and far between. For every one guy that sees action, there are 10 more guys just sitting around somewhere trying to find a way to make the time pass.

If you are looking for action and adventure, then you will truly be disappointed when you find yourself doing nothing for long periods of time...

[earlthegoat2]

If you want to achieve your goal an approach with more steps may be a better idea.

First you need a college degree. This matters. It has to be in something like Accounting or Economics though or even Biology as opposed to Criminal Justice or Military Science. I have no idea why this is.

A better and more realistic approach would be to become a police officer at a larger dept. I am thinking something along the lines of the Las Vegas Metro Police. Put few years in there and try to get on their SWAT team. Then try to go the Federal route.

Federal LE is a huge PITA to get into. As in such a pain it is not really worth it. You have to put your other career on hold if they will let you just so you can jump through all the hoops they make you.

It is not something you can just do. You have to be selected by people that are governed more by the politics of the agency than by their own judgement. It is a process you will slave and suffer for and still most likely be turned down for in the end.

Good luck.

[tacticalj]

Heres a quick tip, as a tactical team member, DON'T tell them that you like kicking in doors and that you're not scared if someone is shooting at you. I can guarentee you that is not what a tactical team wants to hear when you enterview! If you not scared, adrenalin aside, then there is something terribly wrong with you and no tactical team wants John Wayne beside them, other then the fact that he always hit the bad guy! That's just my two cents.

Oh and by the way, I've seen several soldiers come and go out of law enforcement, because it's just not the same. When you're in combat, your not held too accountable for your rounds that you fire, as said within reason. When you in law enforcement, your held accountable for every round that you fire, even though the bad guys really don't seem to be!

I'd be lying 100% if I said that there was not some fear in me when a tactical situation arrives. After awhile it dulls down, but it's still there. If your not scared getting shot at and such then you should probably go to the shrink and have your head examined. It doesn't make you a "*****" if your scared, but you just have to push on through it.
Goodluck with the career.

[quinn2187]

all the politically correct B.S. out of the way, kicking in doors is a rush. it is however a very serious thing. you could die, your friends could die, an innocent person could die, a suspect that some overly "gungho" person shoots could die, then you get into the lawsuits and department investigations and the effect on your mind and your family life and so on and so forth. most people talk a very hard talk and there are very few people that have actually "been there done that". most incidents where SWAT is called out is either solved by good negotiation or the proper addition of gas. i believe it was already stated before, but if you want a rush work the streets in a busy district. kicking in a door with a dozen heavily armed and heavily armored friends after A LOT of planning and negotiating is a rush. kicking in a door when its you and your partner with just a street vest and your duty pistols when a guy is inside pistol whipping his baby momma, now thats a huge rush. it is also a rush a whole lot of people give up on once they actually face it. and the rush doesn't come until after the pucker factor has left and you and your friend(s) are all still without holes in them.

as far as m.o.s. goes it doesn't matter. i was airborne infantry and it never once came into being any type of a deciding factor on any appointments or bids in my department.

as far as fitness goes my thoughts are i would rather lose someone in a foot pursuit than to have the bad guy get the best of me in a physical confrontation and kill me with his gun or mine.

as far as "action" i agree with another poster....you will see more action on a middle sized city's SWAT team than you will on any federal SWAT team

oh, and plan on working all of your weekends and holidays for several years also.

anyways, good luck and i hope you end up doing what you really want to do. just don't rush into it and make a decision based on what you think you will like. do some research, do some ride-alongs with a local department. you have time. i was the youngest in my academy class and i was 25.

[cannonfire]

Hey guys thanks for the positive advice!

Just for the record:
1. I'm not the rambo type... I know that planning and team work go into everything with gthejob. That's why I want to do it. Its the feeling of going into situations with guys you,ve trained that I enjoy.
2. I don't want to get shot, I am afraid of getting shot, but the fear of getting killed will not make me hesitate to do my job.
3. For everyone who says I need to go get professional help, already been there because of the suicide bomber that blew up 20 yards in front of me, I'm perfectly sane

[tacticalj]

well thats good to hear, the sane part anyways. 20ft? was he using fire crackers?

[vsgonzo]

lookin up swat teams and came across this

http://www.theiceagent.com/index.php?pr=ICE_SRT

[cannonfire]

It was about 20 yards, maybe closer to 30 but I was riding in the turret of the lead humvee when she hit... Thanks to all of your tax dollars, that armor stopped strapnel, etc... the concussion still threw me back and felt the heat from the blast, but other wise, no harm was done...

[marshallartist]

I applied (unsuccessfully) to the FBI several years ago and I would strongly suggest you learn a foreign language and not the usual high school languages like Spanish and French. I speak both of them (as well as a little German and Japanese) and they weren't even a consideration in my application. At that time the were looking for people who spoke Arabic, Tagolog, Russian, Chinese, Korean, Urdu, Hindi, etc. These aren't the easiest languages to learn but it will get you're foot in the door.

As for a degree I know they use to strongly favor accountants and lawyers but I believe they have started showing similar favoritism to computer science and life science fields. If you consider the comp. sci. route don't go into web development or programming. They are looking for people with more of a hardware focus like networking and telecom. I think they also like bio-chemists and microbiologists. You could probably major in a foreign language too. None of these are easy degrees but if you want it bad enough...

I've met a few FBI agents over the years and all but one had prior military service. Most were REMF's in their military days, but then none of them were SWAT/HRT either (at least not to my knowledge).

I hope this helps.

[James K]

Unless the PD consists of three people and the Chief is your uncle, you are not going to join the force to be on the SWAT team. You will take the courses, and do the training and go though the dog work of a patrol officer, work up, then maybe, if you are lucky and pass the psycho profiles (which you might not, given the attitude I detect here), you MIGHT be accepted for special training.

But don't get the idea that the SWAT team sits around HQ drinking beer until someone needs shot. In all but the largest departments, the SWAT team consists of regular cops who do patrol work and whatever else needs to be done; the SWAT team becomes a SWAT team only when the call goes out for them to go to some specific place.

(I recall a TV interview some years ago in which a bubbly blonde newswoman asked Officer Klutz if he joined the police force to "protect and serve". Officer Klutz replied that heck no, he joined the police because he wanted to shoot people. Officer Klutz was quickly told to find another job, his captain was fired and the police chief barely avoided the same fate.)

Jim

[tacticalj]

Ah, I was thinking 20ft would be in the kill radius of a frag grenade! I could be wrong, but armor is wonderful. You guys should have the best of everything in my opinion! Get used to it now, cuz if you get a "SWAT" team, depending on where you get on at, there may not be the real good stuff available. Lots of smaller departments barely have enough to fund a special tactics team.

[cannonfire]

taticalj,

I'm totally not being a smart*** but:

1. Kill radius of a M67 frag grenade is 5 meters, casualty radius is 15 meters.
2. The suicide bomber (strapped with C4, not grenades) was about 20-30 yards, not 20-30 feet.
So it was about 3.28 times further away than what you are thinking

3. Don't you know that almost everything in the military is made from the lowest bidder? hahaha

[Hondo11]

From JohnH1963:

Why would you want the SWAT job when you can have a more exciting job which is front-line patrol officer? You seem to want action and the real action starts on the patrol as the first responder.

The SWAT team just comes to secure the area for the coroner and faces down barricaded suspects. Solution? Throw some gas in there and wait until he comes out coughing. Serving a warrant? Just come crashing in when everyone is sleeping at the crack of dawn with 10 of your buddies loaded down with M4s....no problem. Have some guy in the street with a weapon? Just have the snipers get him from a couple football fields away.

The real excitement is facing down the public and responding to calls armed with just a pistol and sometimes little or no backup. That is the real job right there and the backbone of law enforcement.

Are you a police officer?