Brand new guy here but long time milsurp collector

mtbikerwvu · May 13, 2012, 10:45 AM

Like I said, I am a newbie to this forum and wanted to say hello. I am a collector of wayward milsurps and I like to call them my misfit toys. I enjoy restoring and getting them back into shape. My most recent purchase is a Enfield No.4 Mk1 T with a missing No.32 scope which I will find. I try to collect a wide variety of arms but try to stay in the WWI and II time period.

This rifle is only 2 days old in my collection so any information and or questions just jump in.

Tidewater_Kid · May 13, 2012, 10:55 AM

Nice looking rifle! Who made it?

TK

mtbikerwvu · May 13, 2012, 11:29 AM

M47C BSA Shirley 1944

Tikirocker · May 13, 2012, 09:49 PM

Do you have a TR stamp on the left wrist beneath the serial numbers, a T stamp near the ejector screw and does your serial number begin with a 3?

Tiki.

mtbikerwvu · May 13, 2012, 11:37 PM

Yep it is all correct except for the scope.

Tikirocker · May 13, 2012, 11:52 PM

So yes to all three items?

madcratebuilder · May 14, 2012, 06:58 AM

Welcome to the forum.

Nice looking (T). If you are contemplating buying one of the repro No32's I wouldn't. They look OK on a wall hanger but they do not track well. Wait till you find a real No32. You can get them rebuilt, there are a few old Brit armors around that offer this service.

Warren Wheatfield rebuilt mine, and it has been very usable, tracking is great. He de-laminated the lens and polished them, greatly improving clarity. Adjustments are firm and positive.

Serial number should start with a letter, not a number, like B310XX.

1944 No4 Mk1 (T) BSA

mtbikerwvu · May 14, 2012, 07:30 AM

LOL, yes to all 3.

and yep, I will wait for a real No.32 scope to come along. Yours looks awesome! Yes the serial number begins with both a letter prefix and the number 3.

mtbikerwvu · May 14, 2012, 07:34 AM

How hard are No.32 scopes to find in original working condition? I must admit the reproductions are tempting but I will wait for the right one.

Tikirocker · May 14, 2012, 07:44 AM

Good to hear ... the reason I asked is because these rifles are prone to being faked, assuming you did your own due diligence.

Here's mine I restored from a barreled action ... 1944 BSA + No32 Mk1 with Case STG TEL No8 + Transit Chest + kit ...

Tiki.

mtbikerwvu · May 14, 2012, 08:24 AM

Yes I would like to eventually put it back to a full kit. I am starting to begin the search for the items I will need. Thanks!

mtbikerwvu · May 14, 2012, 08:29 AM

I could sure use experts advice to find it all along the way. Is it easier to find parts and pieces in countries that used the Enfield as their main battle rifle?

mtbikerwvu · May 14, 2012, 08:32 AM

Tikirocker · May 14, 2012, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Serial number should start with a letter, not a number, like B310XX.

Crate ...

I asked if the Serial number started with a 3 ... the letter prefix is not a number and is largely irrelevant to identifying BSA No4T's. It is the first number of the series that is key to their identity, that being more often than not, the number 3.

A serial number can have a letter prefix, but the letter prefix is not a number, it is merely part of the serial series. You will note also the Serial numbers on my No8 case match the correct number format for a No4T; ie, B33279. This was the tenor of my question ...

Tiki.

mtbikerwvu · May 14, 2012, 11:44 AM

My serial # is P367XX and is a M47c T with a TR on the socket.

mtbikerwvu · May 14, 2012, 11:47 AM

mtbikerwvu · May 14, 2012, 11:48 AM

mtbikerwvu · May 14, 2012, 11:50 AM

mtbikerwvu · May 14, 2012, 11:52 AM

mtbikerwvu · May 14, 2012, 11:53 AM

mtbikerwvu · May 14, 2012, 12:00 PM

So, here is the obvious issues, wrong scope, wrong sling but a really cool 1914 dated web sling. Needs a 1907 sling. I have the bayonet and cleaning kit stored in the butt of the rifle. No scabbard. Upper wrist area where the scope serial number would be is just the letter H. Seems odd but I have see a few others with no marked serial numbers in that area. The star cartouche on the lower wrist I think signifies a arsenal rebuild at some point. The scope mount bracket serial number is off from the gun but was also told and read that these could be swapped during rebuild and not renumbered. All and all, just a very neat, tight, and clean gun.

mtbikerwvu · May 14, 2012, 12:03 PM

Tikirocker · May 14, 2012, 06:51 PM

The star with the W inside it is the Weedon Depot repair mark - at some point the stock, if original to the rifle, went through the Weedon system in England. I have rifles that also bear the Weedon mark.

If the stock is original to the rifle you should have an S56 stamp on the underside of the butt stock. You should also have scope serial numbers stamped on the topside of the butt stock nearest the wrist. If you remove the butt stock, you should also see a second set of numbers on the top of the socket itself, these numbers are the serial numbers for the rifle.

So the serial numbers on your receiver match the serial numbers on the stock pictured, or not?

Tiki.

Amsdorf · May 14, 2012, 07:06 PM

great stuff, welcome aboard!

mtbikerwvu · May 14, 2012, 07:07 PM

Yep, the stock and the receiver match. Also good to know that I can find a scope serial number in other places but I suppose the odds of finding the matching scope is a billion to one.

May 13, 2012, 10:45 AM	#1
mtbikerwvu Member Join Date: May 13, 2012 Location: Montana Posts: 25	Brand new guy here but long time milsurp collector Like I said, I am a newbie to this forum and wanted to say hello. I am a collector of wayward milsurps and I like to call them my misfit toys. I enjoy restoring and getting them back into shape. My most recent purchase is a Enfield No.4 Mk1 T with a missing No.32 scope which I will find. I try to collect a wide variety of arms but try to stay in the WWI and II time period. This rifle is only 2 days old in my collection so any information and or questions just jump in.

May 13, 2012, 09:49 PM	#4
Tikirocker Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2007 Location: NSW, Australia Posts: 909	Do you have a TR stamp on the left wrist beneath the serial numbers, a T stamp near the ejector screw and does your serial number begin with a 3? Tiki. __________________ The Lee Enfield forums - http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewforum.php?f=27 Surplus Rifle Forums - http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/index.php

May 13, 2012, 11:52 PM	#6
Tikirocker Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2007 Location: NSW, Australia Posts: 909	So yes to all three items? __________________ The Lee Enfield forums - http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewforum.php?f=27 Surplus Rifle Forums - http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/index.php

May 14, 2012, 07:44 AM	#10
Tikirocker Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2007 Location: NSW, Australia Posts: 909	Good to hear ... the reason I asked is because these rifles are prone to being faked, assuming you did your own due diligence. Here's mine I restored from a barreled action ... 1944 BSA + No32 Mk1 with Case STG TEL No8 + Transit Chest + kit ... Tiki. __________________ The Lee Enfield forums - http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewforum.php?f=27 Surplus Rifle Forums - http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/index.php

May 14, 2012, 11:48 AM	#17
mtbikerwvu Member Join Date: May 13, 2012 Location: Montana Posts: 25	Lower wrist area cartouches

May 13, 2012, 10:55 AM	#2
Tidewater_Kid Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 925	Nice looking rifle! Who made it? TK

May 13, 2012, 11:29 AM	#3
mtbikerwvu Member Join Date: May 13, 2012 Location: Montana Posts: 25	M47C BSA Shirley 1944

May 13, 2012, 11:37 PM	#5
mtbikerwvu Member Join Date: May 13, 2012 Location: Montana Posts: 25	Yep it is all correct except for the scope.

May 14, 2012, 06:58 AM	#7
madcratebuilder Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2007 Location: Northern Orygun Posts: 4,923	Welcome to the forum. Nice looking (T). If you are contemplating buying one of the repro No32's I wouldn't. They look OK on a wall hanger but they do not track well. Wait till you find a real No32. You can get them rebuilt, there are a few old Brit armors around that offer this service. Warren Wheatfield rebuilt mine, and it has been very usable, tracking is great. He de-laminated the lens and polished them, greatly improving clarity. Adjustments are firm and positive. Serial number should start with a letter, not a number, like B310XX. 1944 No4 Mk1 (T) BSA

May 14, 2012, 07:30 AM	#8
mtbikerwvu Member Join Date: May 13, 2012 Location: Montana Posts: 25	LOL, yes to all 3. and yep, I will wait for a real No.32 scope to come along. Yours looks awesome! Yes the serial number begins with both a letter prefix and the number 3.

May 14, 2012, 07:34 AM	#9
mtbikerwvu Member Join Date: May 13, 2012 Location: Montana Posts: 25	How hard are No.32 scopes to find in original working condition? I must admit the reproductions are tempting but I will wait for the right one.

May 14, 2012, 08:24 AM	#11
mtbikerwvu Member Join Date: May 13, 2012 Location: Montana Posts: 25	Yes I would like to eventually put it back to a full kit. I am starting to begin the search for the items I will need. Thanks!

May 14, 2012, 08:29 AM	#12
mtbikerwvu Member Join Date: May 13, 2012 Location: Montana Posts: 25	I could sure use experts advice to find it all along the way. Is it easier to find parts and pieces in countries that used the Enfield as their main battle rifle?

May 14, 2012, 08:32 AM	#13
mtbikerwvu Member Join Date: May 13, 2012 Location: Montana Posts: 25

May 14, 2012, 11:44 AM	#15
mtbikerwvu Member Join Date: May 13, 2012 Location: Montana Posts: 25	My serial # is P367XX and is a M47c T with a TR on the socket.

May 14, 2012, 11:47 AM	#16
mtbikerwvu Member Join Date: May 13, 2012 Location: Montana Posts: 25

May 14, 2012, 11:50 AM	#18
mtbikerwvu Member Join Date: May 13, 2012 Location: Montana Posts: 25	Upper forearm lower side cartouches

May 14, 2012, 11:52 AM	#19
mtbikerwvu Member Join Date: May 13, 2012 Location: Montana Posts: 25	butt socket left side

May 14, 2012, 11:53 AM	#20
mtbikerwvu Member Join Date: May 13, 2012 Location: Montana Posts: 25	Same

May 14, 2012, 12:00 PM	#21
mtbikerwvu Member Join Date: May 13, 2012 Location: Montana Posts: 25	So, here is the obvious issues, wrong scope, wrong sling but a really cool 1914 dated web sling. Needs a 1907 sling. I have the bayonet and cleaning kit stored in the butt of the rifle. No scabbard. Upper wrist area where the scope serial number would be is just the letter H. Seems odd but I have see a few others with no marked serial numbers in that area. The star cartouche on the lower wrist I think signifies a arsenal rebuild at some point. The scope mount bracket serial number is off from the gun but was also told and read that these could be swapped during rebuild and not renumbered. All and all, just a very neat, tight, and clean gun.

May 14, 2012, 12:03 PM	#22
mtbikerwvu Member Join Date: May 13, 2012 Location: Montana Posts: 25	right side

May 14, 2012, 06:51 PM	#23
Tikirocker Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2007 Location: NSW, Australia Posts: 909	The star with the W inside it is the Weedon Depot repair mark - at some point the stock, if original to the rifle, went through the Weedon system in England. I have rifles that also bear the Weedon mark. If the stock is original to the rifle you should have an S56 stamp on the underside of the butt stock. You should also have scope serial numbers stamped on the topside of the butt stock nearest the wrist. If you remove the butt stock, you should also see a second set of numbers on the top of the socket itself, these numbers are the serial numbers for the rifle. So the serial numbers on your receiver match the serial numbers on the stock pictured, or not? Tiki. __________________ The Lee Enfield forums - http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewforum.php?f=27 Surplus Rifle Forums - http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/index.php Last edited by Tikirocker; May 14, 2012 at 09:09 PM.

May 14, 2012, 07:06 PM	#24
Amsdorf Junior member Join Date: July 24, 2011 Location: Saint Louis, Missouri Posts: 849	great stuff, welcome aboard!

May 14, 2012, 07:07 PM	#25
mtbikerwvu Member Join Date: May 13, 2012 Location: Montana Posts: 25	Yep, the stock and the receiver match. Also good to know that I can find a scope serial number in other places but I suppose the odds of finding the matching scope is a billion to one.