Brass Coated Steel .223 Cases

[Jeffm004]

Picking up pins I had several stick to the magnet. Does anyone worry about these slipping through? Do you find them the same way? Do you ever load them?
tx

[44 AMP]

Never even knew they existed. Thanks for telling us about them.

Who makes that kind of crap???

[Unclenick]

Bad idea to reload steel, even if you can force it into a sizing die. A fellow on another board who didn't know that discovered they crack and let little gas jets squirt out in the pressure ring area before they give a clear sign of failure. His chamber was pitted all around that area before he noticed the problem.

[briandg]

Take a piece of steel and try pounding a tapered punch into it and compare your results with genuine brass. The malleability of brass is good, the malleability for steel is bad.

I can't imagine a company selling brass plated steel.

[44 AMP]

Back in the early 70s when I was dumb(er) and just starting reloading, I got a batch of EC 43 GI .45ACP "brass". At the time I had no idea steel cases even existed.

They were an odd shade of pale green but what the hell, right?? I did load more than a few, (VERY hard to resize) and I even manages to squash primers into the undersize primer pockets. RUINED my sizer die.

The ones I loaded, did fire, but that was the absolute end of steel cases for me. I don't even shoot them ONCE, and haven't in decades.

Learned my lesson back then, and fortunately didn't damage my dad's 1911A1, only my sizing die, and my ego. Lots of people shoot steel, and have no trouble, others have issues. If you do have issues, I think its false economy, and easily avoided for a few pennies more.

[viciouskitty]

It's called golden bear ammo, made in the former communist block. It's out there though not that common. I believe the primers are berdan as well.

[FrankenMauser]

Sort your brass;
You'll find them.


Don't sort;
You may have a bad day at the reloading bench.

[Jeffm004]

They are berdan. The first one I looked in had a pin stuck crosswise. I found one more with little effort. That's a feature :/

And my brass is always sorted by at least caliber.

tx

[madmo44mag]

Had a thread up just last week on the same issue.
The brass plating is excellent and looks just like any other brass round.
They are Berdain primed.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=578751
Pictures attached with cut away of primer

[Unclenick]

The brass likely serves the same purpose as the copper wash you used to find on steel cases. Helps lubricate the case for fast (self-loading) feedi into a chamber. Steel-on-steel has relatively high friction (the reason steel train wheels and rails work well together) and that would eventually mark up your feed ramp.

Copper is easier to spot, so I wish they'd done that instead. But I can understand from a marketing standpoint that "golden" has more positive associations than "orange" or "copper".

[briandg]

You can probably imagine that I have strongly held negative opinions regarding any company that would use brass plate and "golden" as a means of increasing the marketability of what is probably really poor grade ammo.

[T. O'Heir]

"...believe the primers are Berdan..." Yep. If you don't get 'em stuck in the sizer, you'll break the decapping pin.
Golden Bear is made by Barnaul in Russia. Imported by DKG Trading Inc. and "Berdan priming" is all over their site. The stuff usually get picked up as 'range brass" and is a classic example why you shouldn't use range brass.

[FrankenMauser]

And my brass is always sorted by at least caliber.

That doesn't really count.

A reloader is just asking for trouble if they don't at least sort by brand.
Even then... case capacity difference can creep up and cause some wild changes in chamber pressure.


As I recently documented elsewhere (can't find the post), with a much lower pressure cartridge, I've seen exactly the same load result in a velocity difference of more than 100 fps in different brands of brass. In that instance, with .30-30, it was R-P vs Winchester. For that load, the estimated difference in chamber pressure, caused by nothing more than differing case capacity, was 4,800 psi. (Nothing to sneeze at.)

But what was really interesting in that round of testing, was that I also tested R-P vs R-P. One lot from the '60s or '70s and one lot from about 2010. Muzzle velocity was off by 160 fps. That equates to about 11,000 psi. ...Or more than enough (with higher pressure cartridges) to go from 'happy day' to pulling pieces of primer out of your face.
And the cases looked absolutely identical, visually ... unless you caught the slightly larger radius on the outside of the letters for the headstamp on the newer brass.

[mikld]

While I often shoot mixed brass in my handguns, my rifle brass is sorted by caliber and mfg. I would keep that steel case on the reloading bench so it's fresh in my memory what it looks like and when sorting/inspecting (you inspect every case, don't you?) it's easy to spot and discard.

As an experiment I've reloaded some steel cases; .223/5.56 and 45 ACP. While it can be done, but steel cases are a "use once and discard" product. Not worth the trouble and possible problems in a gun...

[Reloadron]

Slightly off topic...

44AMP Mentions:

Back in the early 70s when I was dumb(er) and just starting reloading, I got a batch of EC 43 GI .45ACP "brass". At the time I had no idea steel cases even existed.

They were an odd shade of pale green but what the hell, right?? I did load more than a few, (VERY hard to resize) and I even manages to squash primers into the undersize primer pockets. RUINED my sizer die.

The ones I loaded, did fire, but that was the absolute end of steel cases for me. I don't even shoot them ONCE, and haven't in decades.

Learned my lesson back then, and fortunately didn't damage my dad's 1911A1, only my sizing die, and my ego. Lots of people shoot steel, and have no trouble, others have issues. If you do have issues, I think its false economy, and easily avoided for a few pennies more.

Just to refresh your memory here are a few EC 43 steel cased 1943 .45 ACP USGI cartridges. Speaking of pennies....

The pennies are 1943 steel pennies. The cartridges and the pennies received zinc plating to prevent rust and corrosion. One of the cartridges and one of the pennies (on the left) show signs of rust. During 1943 both copper and brass were at a premium with the war effort and as far as I know 1943 was the only year the US made and used steel cased ammunition.



Ron

[44 AMP]

Yep, that's them!

43 was the only year, and .45acp the only round. I've heard about some .30 carbine steel cased stuff, but no one I found has ever seen any...(so now, of course, someone will post a pick with lot#s and production dates....)

It is interesting to note that other than the 43 ammo, we didn't use steel cases like some other nations did. And that in 44 copper was cheap enough and available enough to use as pennies, again.

[Reloadron]

Yeah, it was only 1943 and when I was a kid growing up in the 50s the steel pennies were still everywhere. Today I think I have about 5 steel pennies and 5 of those 45 ACP steel cased rounds. More a novelty than much else.

Ron

[Gunplummer]

What happens if you put steel pennies in a coin counting machine?

[jmorris]

I have found both brass and nickel plated steel cases. They are generally caught in the sorting process but I also keep a magnet on e tube clip for the reloading machines that will catch a steel case and stop the collator.



I don't remember all of the head stamps but S&B 9mm is one that some are actually brass and others are plated steel, both with the same head stamp.

[Unclenick]

That's a good approach. Also, the magnets sold for separating steel pins from brass when ss pin tumbling will grab steel cases, too.