Berry's 200 gr. 45 flat points

Brutus · October 10, 2015, 02:13 PM

Bought 500 rounds of the above mentioned bullets at Cabelas and I just sat down to reload some. Have to seat them down to a overall length of 1.145 before they pass the plunk test in
my CZ 97B. I thought they looked kinda short & squat when I opened the box.
Anybody else have any experience with these. Hope they feed OK. Usually other brands are good at 1.200.

Nick_C_S · October 10, 2015, 03:05 PM

Berry's recommends an OAL of 1.200" with the 45 ACP, 200gn FP.

Quote:

Have to seat them down to a overall length of 1.145 before they pass the plunk test

That seems really odd.

Of course, Berry's recommendation is just that - a recommendation. But you're loading them 55 thousandths less? Hmm. Chances are, something's not right.

pgdion · October 10, 2015, 03:40 PM

I buy them, use them, and love them. They are all I load the .45's with. I'd have to check my notes at home as to what I seat them too though. Its pretty close to just the cone sticking out though. I don't remember my charges off hand either but I really like the way they perform. I'll try to remember to check when I get back from camping.

Kosh75287 · October 10, 2015, 03:44 PM

Can you increase the crimp slightly, without hurting the plating or anything else? I'm thinking 1/8 turn or less on the die might help. You might try seating at 1.173" overall length, with the increased crimp. That'd be about midway between your "plunk test positive" o.a.l., and Berry's recommended o.a.l.

Brutus · October 10, 2015, 03:54 PM

The reason I'm plunk testing is because on the first go around they locked up all 3 of my 45's.
A Kimber, Sig P220 and the 97. CZ's are known for short throats so I chose that one for plunk testing. Kept reducing overall length in .010 increments until I got where I am.
I agree somethings not right and I have to believe it's this batch of bullets,

**Unclenick** · October 10, 2015, 04:21 PM

Since it is a plunk test, I'll guess the throat is closer or has a steeper angle than a SAAMI chamber. It shouldn't matter if it plunks or not, as long as the head of the case doesn't protrude beyond the barrel extension. Below is my image of a 1911 barrel set up this way (third from left). For soft bullets it actually improves the accuracy significantly to load this way. The fact the bullet is stopping in contact with the throat eliminates the need for crimp force to regulate starting pressure. The only reason not to do it is if you get actual feed failures that result, but I never have until the gun has gotten very dirty (talking about 3000 rounds without cleaning, here, and the fouling gum up was due in large part to case bullet lube in this instance).

So the question is, are you actually getting feed failures at any greater length, or did you just go from the 1.2" down to the plunk without checking in between?

Brutus · October 10, 2015, 04:44 PM

Problem is the bullets were jamming into the barrel lands instead of headspacing on the case mouth creating a condition as seen in illustration #4 from the left. A case lgth. of 1.145 creates the illustration #2 and still doesn't provide the solid clunk one hears with standard ball ammo.

Kosh75287 · October 10, 2015, 05:22 PM

Quote:

A case lgth. of 1.145 creates the illustration #2...

Did you mean CARTRIDGE length? If memory serves, .45 ACP case length is more like .895".

Brutus · October 10, 2015, 05:33 PM

I meant overall cartdrige length.

Jeffm004 · October 10, 2015, 06:17 PM

For now, check with one of the other barrels. These tales are why I went to gauges.

October 10, 2015, 02:13 PM	#1
Brutus Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2005 Posts: 1,023	Berry's 200 gr. 45 flat points Bought 500 rounds of the above mentioned bullets at Cabelas and I just sat down to reload some. Have to seat them down to a overall length of 1.145 before they pass the plunk test in my CZ 97B. I thought they looked kinda short & squat when I opened the box. Anybody else have any experience with these. Hope they feed OK. Usually other brands are good at 1.200. __________________ Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak out, Courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen, Winston Churchill.

October 10, 2015, 03:40 PM	#3
pgdion Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2010 Location: MPLS, MN Posts: 1,214	I buy them, use them, and love them. They are all I load the .45's with. I'd have to check my notes at home as to what I seat them too though. Its pretty close to just the cone sticking out though. I don't remember my charges off hand either but I really like the way they perform. I'll try to remember to check when I get back from camping. __________________ 597 VTR, because there's so many cans and so little time!

October 10, 2015, 03:54 PM	#5
Brutus Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2005 Posts: 1,023	The reason I'm plunk testing is because on the first go around they locked up all 3 of my 45's. A Kimber, Sig P220 and the 97. CZ's are known for short throats so I chose that one for plunk testing. Kept reducing overall length in .010 increments until I got where I am. I agree somethings not right and I have to believe it's this batch of bullets, __________________ Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak out, Courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen, Winston Churchill.

October 10, 2015, 04:21 PM	#6
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Since it is a plunk test, I'll guess the throat is closer or has a steeper angle than a SAAMI chamber. It shouldn't matter if it plunks or not, as long as the head of the case doesn't protrude beyond the barrel extension. Below is my image of a 1911 barrel set up this way (third from left). For soft bullets it actually improves the accuracy significantly to load this way. The fact the bullet is stopping in contact with the throat eliminates the need for crimp force to regulate starting pressure. The only reason not to do it is if you get actual feed failures that result, but I never have until the gun has gotten very dirty (talking about 3000 rounds without cleaning, here, and the fouling gum up was due in large part to case bullet lube in this instance). So the question is, are you actually getting feed failures at any greater length, or did you just go from the 1.2" down to the plunk without checking in between? __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

October 10, 2015, 04:44 PM	#7
Brutus Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2005 Posts: 1,023	Problem is the bullets were jamming into the barrel lands instead of headspacing on the case mouth creating a condition as seen in illustration #4 from the left. A case lgth. of 1.145 creates the illustration #2 and still doesn't provide the solid clunk one hears with standard ball ammo. __________________ Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak out, Courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen, Winston Churchill.

October 10, 2015, 03:44 PM	#4
Kosh75287 Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 2007 Posts: 820	Can you increase the crimp slightly, without hurting the plating or anything else? I'm thinking 1/8 turn or less on the die might help. You might try seating at 1.173" overall length, with the increased crimp. That'd be about midway between your "plunk test positive" o.a.l., and Berry's recommended o.a.l. __________________ GOD BLESS JEFF COOPER, whose instructions, consultations, and publications have probably saved more lives than can ever be reliably calculated. DVC, sir. انجلو. المسلحة. جاهزة. Carpe SCOTCH!

October 10, 2015, 05:33 PM	#9
Brutus Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2005 Posts: 1,023	I meant overall cartdrige length. __________________ Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak out, Courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen, Winston Churchill.

October 10, 2015, 06:17 PM	#10
Jeffm004 Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2013 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 255	For now, check with one of the other barrels. These tales are why I went to gauges.