.358 bullets in 9x56 Mannlicher-Schoenauer

gyvel · March 6, 2014, 11:29 AM

I have a chance to obtain some nice 250 gr. .358" bullets (pulled from .35 Whelen cartridges) at a very reasonable price.

My question is: Would these be (or not be) safe to use in a 9x56 Mannlicher-Schoenauer carbine. I have a (very) few original Kynoch rounds and the bullet diameter is .3562". I intend to resize/shorten some commercial 8x57 brass and neck ream, but I'm wondering if the extra .002" is going to cause overpressure problems.

Any and all advice greatly appreciated.

Bart B. · March 6, 2014, 12:38 PM

I think they'll be just fine if the're .357" diameter; some 35 caliber rifle bullets are. Specs for that cartridge's barrel is with a .356" groove diameter.

My brother used Winchester and Remington 35 caliber hunting bullets in his 9x56 chambered 3-barrel drilling's rifle barrel. He'd slugged the bore and it measured about a thousandth less of his .35 Whelen's barrel.

Most barrels easily tolerate a couple thousands inch difference in bullet diameters. SAAMI specs for bullet diameters for a given cartridge usually have a .002" to .003" tolerance. Just work up loads, especially if your bullets' diameter are a tiny bit bigger than the barrel's groove diameter.

gyvel · March 7, 2014, 10:32 AM

They're actually .358". At .357" I wouldn't worry too much. I intend to load using 4895 which I think tends to have slightly lower pressures than some others.

Actually, the logical thing to do would be to slug the bore of the Mannlicher, which I have never done. I never worried about it because I had a pretty good supply of Kynochs. Unfortunately I have used all but a few of the original 9x56 rounds, so, time to start reloading.

Bart B. · March 7, 2014, 10:42 AM

I've shot .3092" diameter 30 caliber bullets in barrels with a .3075" groove diameter. Cut the powder charge a few tenths but no other issues; great accuracy, too.

IMR4895, as well as any other powder suitable for your rifle, can be loaded to produce the same peak pressure in your rifle. It's all about the charge and bullet weights.

gyvel · March 7, 2014, 01:21 PM

4895 has always been my go-to powder for .303 British, 8mm Lebel, 8x57, and 7x57. I always thought it was a pretty versatile powder and always produced good accuracy loads.

Paul B. · March 7, 2014, 06:53 PM

Ken Waters in his book PET LOADS has an article on the 9x57 M/S. It's been quite a while since I read it but IIRC he said something about having to swage down the .358" bullets down to .356". Ken is a fairly conservative handloader and he may have just been overly cautious. The book is quite thick but if you like I can try and copy the article for you and I'll snail mail it. Just PM me an address and I'll give it a try.
Paul B.

gyvel · March 29, 2014, 01:22 AM

Paul B, info received and my gratitude for all your trouble. The data will be most useful when I am working up a load for my 9x56.

black mamba · March 31, 2014, 11:13 AM

The main thing to keep pressure down is to make sure the bullet's ogive is not too close to the rifling. For bullets .002" oversized like yours, I would start load workup at .050" off the lands, like Barnes advises for their very tough X bullets. When you find a good load, try seating farther from the lands to find best accuracy, but don't go any closer to the lands for safety.

March 6, 2014, 11:29 AM	#1
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	.358 bullets in 9x56 Mannlicher-Schoenauer I have a chance to obtain some nice 250 gr. .358" bullets (pulled from .35 Whelen cartridges) at a very reasonable price. My question is: Would these be (or not be) safe to use in a 9x56 Mannlicher-Schoenauer carbine. I have a (very) few original Kynoch rounds and the bullet diameter is .3562". I intend to resize/shorten some commercial 8x57 brass and neck ream, but I'm wondering if the extra .002" is going to cause overpressure problems. Any and all advice greatly appreciated.

March 6, 2014, 12:38 PM	#2
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	I think they'll be just fine if the're .357" diameter; some 35 caliber rifle bullets are. Specs for that cartridge's barrel is with a .356" groove diameter. My brother used Winchester and Remington 35 caliber hunting bullets in his 9x56 chambered 3-barrel drilling's rifle barrel. He'd slugged the bore and it measured about a thousandth less of his .35 Whelen's barrel. Most barrels easily tolerate a couple thousands inch difference in bullet diameters. SAAMI specs for bullet diameters for a given cartridge usually have a .002" to .003" tolerance. Just work up loads, especially if your bullets' diameter are a tiny bit bigger than the barrel's groove diameter. Last edited by Bart B.; March 6, 2014 at 12:44 PM.

March 7, 2014, 06:53 PM	#6
Paul B. Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 1999 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,802	Ken Waters in his book PET LOADS has an article on the 9x57 M/S. It's been quite a while since I read it but IIRC he said something about having to swage down the .358" bullets down to .356". Ken is a fairly conservative handloader and he may have just been overly cautious. The book is quite thick but if you like I can try and copy the article for you and I'll snail mail it. Just PM me an address and I'll give it a try. Paul B. __________________ COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!

March 7, 2014, 10:32 AM	#3
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	They're actually .358". At .357" I wouldn't worry too much. I intend to load using 4895 which I think tends to have slightly lower pressures than some others. Actually, the logical thing to do would be to slug the bore of the Mannlicher, which I have never done. I never worried about it because I had a pretty good supply of Kynochs. Unfortunately I have used all but a few of the original 9x56 rounds, so, time to start reloading.

March 7, 2014, 10:42 AM	#4
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	I've shot .3092" diameter 30 caliber bullets in barrels with a .3075" groove diameter. Cut the powder charge a few tenths but no other issues; great accuracy, too. IMR4895, as well as any other powder suitable for your rifle, can be loaded to produce the same peak pressure in your rifle. It's all about the charge and bullet weights.

March 7, 2014, 01:21 PM	#5
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	4895 has always been my go-to powder for .303 British, 8mm Lebel, 8x57, and 7x57. I always thought it was a pretty versatile powder and always produced good accuracy loads.

March 29, 2014, 01:22 AM	#7
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	Paul B, info received and my gratitude for all your trouble. The data will be most useful when I am working up a load for my 9x56.

March 31, 2014, 11:13 AM	#8
black mamba Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2011 Location: SW Florida Posts: 890	The main thing to keep pressure down is to make sure the bullet's ogive is not too close to the rifling. For bullets .002" oversized like yours, I would start load workup at .050" off the lands, like Barnes advises for their very tough X bullets. When you find a good load, try seating farther from the lands to find best accuracy, but don't go any closer to the lands for safety.