Rogers & Spencer problem

Creek Walker · February 21, 2009, 09:19 PM

Didn't know whether to post this here, or in the Smithy forum, but here goes. (move if necessary). I recently was given an old R & S revolver that was basically a wall-hanger. Needed a mainspring, new hand/spring, and nipples. After some research, I found the parts and had 'em shipped. Installed everything, and thought I was in luck, but alas, I can't get the cylinder to advance all the way to the notch when I cock the revolver. It turns about 2/3 of the way and stops moving. The hammer, trigger, and stop all seem to be functioning properly; the cylinder is not lined up though. If I manually turn the cylinder, it lines up perfectly & the stop drops right into the slot on the cylinder. Could it be that the cylinder needs replacing? Or does the hand just need some tuning? I haven't put a file or stone to anything yet; thought I'd get some advice first. Thanks in advance for any help.

**4V50 Gary** · February 21, 2009, 10:54 PM

Generally here's how any revolver works.

When you cock the hammer, the cylinder stop/bolt disengages from the bolt, freeing the cylinder to move. The hand/pawl rises, engages the cylinder's ratchet, causing the cylinder to rotate. As the hammer continues to be cocked, it causes the cylinder stop/bolt to pop back up where it is ready to engage the cylinder. Right before the hammer reaches the full cock position, the hand/pawl should complete the cylinder's rotation. At this point, the cylinder stop/bolt should engage the cylinder notch, arresting any further rotation of the cylinder.

Your hand/pawl is slow in engaging the cylinder ratchet and rotating it into position. Or the hand/pawl is too short and won't rotate the cylinder enough. Also check to ensure that the cylinder stop/bolt disengages from the cylinder's cylinder notch before the hand/pawl begins to rotate the cylinder.

I could give you better instructions, but I don't have a diagram in front of me and I'm going by my basic training in gunsmithing/armorer school.

mykeal · February 22, 2009, 07:27 AM

Good reply. Just one more thing: often the reason the hand doesn't advance the cylinder into battery is that the hand spring is either too weak or broken, and as the hammer moves the hand upward the spring fails to hold it in position in the back of the cylinder. Considering the condition of the revolver I think the hand spring is likely the culprit.

It's possible to simply bend the spring back to get it to work, but it's likely that it's on it's way to failing if it hasn't already. You can purchase a new spring but they are often very difficult to remove from the hand assembly, and putting the new one in is even more difficult. I'd just purchase a new hand/spring assembly and replace the whole thing.

Hawg · February 22, 2009, 07:51 AM

If this is an original revolver or an older repro and you've already replaced the hand and spring it could be the cylinder ratchet is worn. A longer hand might fix it, might not. You may have found out why it was a wall hanger in the first place.

mykeal · February 22, 2009, 11:23 AM

I misread the original post - he had already replaced the hand/spring assembly, so my advice was not timely. Hawg's diagnosis is more likely.

**4V50 Gary** · February 22, 2009, 12:28 PM

I've got an idea. Post some pictures. Show us the ratchet.

February 21, 2009, 09:19 PM	#1
Creek Walker Junior Member Join Date: January 13, 2009 Posts: 13	Rogers & Spencer problem Didn't know whether to post this here, or in the Smithy forum, but here goes. (move if necessary). I recently was given an old R & S revolver that was basically a wall-hanger. Needed a mainspring, new hand/spring, and nipples. After some research, I found the parts and had 'em shipped. Installed everything, and thought I was in luck, but alas, I can't get the cylinder to advance all the way to the notch when I cock the revolver. It turns about 2/3 of the way and stops moving. The hammer, trigger, and stop all seem to be functioning properly; the cylinder is not lined up though. If I manually turn the cylinder, it lines up perfectly & the stop drops right into the slot on the cylinder. Could it be that the cylinder needs replacing? Or does the hand just need some tuning? I haven't put a file or stone to anything yet; thought I'd get some advice first. Thanks in advance for any help.

February 21, 2009, 10:54 PM	#2
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,829	Generally here's how any revolver works. When you cock the hammer, the cylinder stop/bolt disengages from the bolt, freeing the cylinder to move. The hand/pawl rises, engages the cylinder's ratchet, causing the cylinder to rotate. As the hammer continues to be cocked, it causes the cylinder stop/bolt to pop back up where it is ready to engage the cylinder. Right before the hammer reaches the full cock position, the hand/pawl should complete the cylinder's rotation. At this point, the cylinder stop/bolt should engage the cylinder notch, arresting any further rotation of the cylinder. Your hand/pawl is slow in engaging the cylinder ratchet and rotating it into position. Or the hand/pawl is too short and won't rotate the cylinder enough. Also check to ensure that the cylinder stop/bolt disengages from the cylinder's cylinder notch before the hand/pawl begins to rotate the cylinder. I could give you better instructions, but I don't have a diagram in front of me and I'm going by my basic training in gunsmithing/armorer school. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

February 22, 2009, 12:28 PM	#6
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,829	I've got an idea. Post some pictures. Show us the ratchet. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

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February 22, 2009, 07:27 AM	#3
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	Good reply. Just one more thing: often the reason the hand doesn't advance the cylinder into battery is that the hand spring is either too weak or broken, and as the hammer moves the hand upward the spring fails to hold it in position in the back of the cylinder. Considering the condition of the revolver I think the hand spring is likely the culprit. It's possible to simply bend the spring back to get it to work, but it's likely that it's on it's way to failing if it hasn't already. You can purchase a new spring but they are often very difficult to remove from the hand assembly, and putting the new one in is even more difficult. I'd just purchase a new hand/spring assembly and replace the whole thing.

February 22, 2009, 07:51 AM	#4
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	If this is an original revolver or an older repro and you've already replaced the hand and spring it could be the cylinder ratchet is worn. A longer hand might fix it, might not. You may have found out why it was a wall hanger in the first place.

February 22, 2009, 11:23 AM	#5
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	I misread the original post - he had already replaced the hand/spring assembly, so my advice was not timely. Hawg's diagnosis is more likely.