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Old April 15, 2013, 04:14 PM   #1
MilJunkie
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Enfield No4 MKI feature ident. help plz

I recently purchased my first Enfield, it is a No4 MKI (F) dated 11/48 PF616XX.

I was wondering about the grooves on the upper handguard (which seem to improve grip) and had not seen them anywhere until I came across a post here with a photo from madcratebuilder, which has the same grooves.
(Mine is not a sniper)



I thought they were some bubba job, but now I am not sure, and I thought someone might tell me which units these appeared on?

Last edited by MilJunkie; April 15, 2013 at 04:25 PM.
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Old April 15, 2013, 04:50 PM   #2
davery25
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Don't quote me but I believe those are just on the American made Savages. The British and Aussie ones don't have them. The New Zealand ones might
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Old April 15, 2013, 04:57 PM   #3
MilJunkie
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It is British made (Fazakerly) and the Main stock is F marked, so maybe the handguard is not matching? The bolt is later S/N than the rifle, so not everything is original, but most are F or Crown marked.
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Old April 15, 2013, 07:15 PM   #4
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Lower hand guards were made by sub-contractors. Some used grooves, some did not. The grooved version is more common on Canadian and US made No4's but the Brit's did produce grooved lower hand guards. It's not a linear thing, just haphazard. Either smooth or grooved is considered correct.
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Old April 15, 2013, 07:32 PM   #5
MilJunkie
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Here is the portion I am talking about. Sorry about the photo, I will get some better ones out, I think you can see enough of the stamping there as well
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Old April 16, 2013, 07:42 AM   #6
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The grooves served 2 purposes. They allowed a better grip when bayonet fighting with cold, wet, muddy hands. They also allowed you a better grip when assuming or standing from prone with the same cold, wet, muddy hands.

Appearance seems utterly random, with the exception that I've never seen grooved blond wood. I've had a '43 with the grooves, a '42 without, & a blond '55 without.
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Old April 16, 2013, 07:58 AM   #7
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Quote:
Appearance seems utterly random, with the exception that I've never seen grooved blond wood. I've had a '43 with the grooves, a '42 without, & a blond '55 without.
I vaguely recall a thread at Gunboards about the grooved vs non grooved. No one could post a pic of grooved Beech wood guards. One or two claimed to have seen them at one time, I never have. I don't recall ever seeing a MkII with grooves (original).
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Old April 16, 2013, 09:52 AM   #8
MilJunkie
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Thanks all!
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Old April 16, 2013, 12:23 PM   #9
wogpotter
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Yeah, me neither. I've been looking seriously for a few years & even posted WTB ads without sucess.

(Just you watch, some bright spark is gonna gouge a few up with a Dremel cutoff wheel & try to sell them as "rare, collectable" now!)
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Old April 16, 2013, 08:04 PM   #10
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No need for the Dremel.
I am busy with my drains and a very good plumber this evening, so no photo, BUT...

I have grooved Beech handguards on a 1941 BSA and a 1943 Fazakerley.
I will put up photos on Gunboards LE Forum in a dedicated thread later this week.
-----krinko
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Old April 17, 2013, 08:09 PM   #11
tahunua001
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they are just a random occurence as far as I've seen. my Savage made no4 MK1* is all parts matching and does not have the grooves so even on lend/lease rifles they were hit or miss use.
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Old April 21, 2013, 07:15 PM   #12
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The 303 Enfield I have is a Birmingham Small Arms 1942 dated, No.4 MK I ,it has dark wood, all numbers matching and has a grooved upper handguard.

I had never thought about the grooves as I had assumed they all were grooved. Will have to start paying attention to that detail.

Gary
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Old April 24, 2013, 12:33 AM   #13
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From "Lee-Enfield No. 4 and No. 5 Rifles", by Charles Stratton:
Rear handguard, Second variation: "four long. grasping grooves, about 7 1/4" long...".

Both first and second var. rear handguards have been observed on No. 4 Mk 1 and Mark 1* of Brit., Can. and US manufacture.

The grooved handguards are "found most often on Savage-manu. rifles".
Both grooved and non-grooved are found on rifles produced in the same factories during the same time period.
"Evidently, the two (S and L) factories traded wood fairly frequently.."
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