Will be buying, in effect, my first shotgun. Feedback?

[Panoply]

Hello,

I am brand new to this forum, so hello again. As I said, I will soon be buying my first shotgun. I have an ancient Stevens 20g that I quit using 15+ years ago when it discharged when I closed it. I decided it wasn't worth having fixed - and as it was a hand me down, I've still never bought a shotgun.

You're going to ask what purpose I intend to put my shotgun to. I have no definite answer. I don't hunt (no moral problems, just know no hunters and am pressed for time too much). Were I to hunt, it would be for birds, but not waterfowl - birds that would allow me to stay dry and not wait w/o moving for a while. So having a gun that could do that would be a bonus. I'd also like a shotgun for home defense. Currently, it's just a pistol (my CZ 75 P-07 Duty 9mm) and my AR (S&W M&P). These are not satisfactory - to me at least.

I'm drawn to coach guns. I have fallen in love with CZ firearms, but their Coach Gun simply costs too much for the use to which I'd put it. So first up is Stoeger: Coach Gun Supreme, Double Defense SXS and over/under (prefer SxS) and the Condor Outback. Escort: Silver Standard Synthetic (the 18" barrel one). Mossberg: HS-12, Thunder Ranch HS12. That's it for the coach gun options. Would be THRILLED if one of y'all could turn me on to another coach gun! (SxS always preferred but no deal breaker, obviously)

I could go hi-cap home defense, and that would almost definitely be a Mossberg of some sort. The 590A1 SPX being the best of the bunch, for me, as it comes with a bayonet lug. Yep, I'd love to have a bayoneted shotgun. Different strokes, y'all - and yes, I am a grown man of 38. As this gun is too much $$$, I'd likely get a Mossberg (or Remington) for which bayonet lugs are readily available after market.

For a gun that might one day be taken into the field it would either be Stoeger's Longfowler SxS or one of the Uplanders, also SxS. It is very possible, heck, likely, I'd splurge and get the CZ Bobwhite. I do love CZ - have 2 rifles and that pistol from them.

If you could make clear the unclear, what is a good, middle of the road barrel length for the type of shooting/hunting I might get into? That is, Skeet or Trap shooting (sporting clays someday? I'd definitely shoot skeet and traps were I to buy such a gun) - or hunting (dove, quail & similar or turkey - ducks/geese probably out unless one day I'm invited by some new friend). Embarrassed to say I know very little on chokes, but could likely find out online. Though I'd much rather personal input on them from y'all. So...maybe?

Oh, I am in south Louisiana and so would be hunting here.

God bless you for your patience with this newbie! We all must start somewhere, I'm just getting a late start - and by necessity I must be self taught.

What I'd like, ideally, from y'all is the best in each category. Let me say I don't have any interest in a semi auto shotguns, so please none of those. Side by sides, over & unders and pumps being it.

The Most Sincere Thanks!
Pano

[saf11]

Mossberg 500 12 ga...most gun for the money, and none better.

[Virginian]

If you plan to do anything other than home defense, forget the coach gun idea. Hard to go wrong with a Remington 870 or a Mossberg 500 with a 28" or 26" barrel, and you might consider a 20 gauge as well as the 12. If you are hooked on SxSs, the CZ is probably the best that you have mentioned, but a coachgun layout is not the way to go.

[Snyper]

Find a gun that FITS you well enough that if you close your eyes and bring it up to your face, you're looking straight down the barrel and only see the front bead

The pumps are better for defense purposes and bigger game, but a double can be a fine hunting gun for most small game

[Blindstitch]

I side with the 3 guys above me.

And the Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 would have a good deal of aftermarket add ons.

For about $14 you can get a pistol grip for the Mossberg 500 and it changes with just one bolt.

They can be had new for $274. There's also a Maverick version that can cost as low as $199. There's also probably many places that sell them used for a better price in good condition.

[FITASC]

For HD forget the bayonet lug - not for the obvious legal issues, but for the practical ones of it getting hung up or stuck when trying to deploy it

[gunnails]

I have the Remington 870 for HD, it is set up with a 18 1/2" barrel and pistol grip. I also have a 28" barrel, the magazine plug, and the original stock if I want to hunt with it.

Bar none the most recoil I have ever experienced is the 18 1/2" barrel and pistol grip.

[SARuger]

I'm partial to the 870 and in 20ga

[Panoply]

I thank you all for your input. Each one of you had a good point to make.

The bayonet would probably affect handing to some degree in a HD role, but not much more than just having those extra inches be barrel - or no? I mean, the bayonet could be left on and deployed w/o sheath propped against my bedroom wall or in another suitable location. Other drawbacks I'm not seeing?

Y'all are dead right about coach guns. Not saying I won't still get one! but have definitely cooled to the idea after reading y'all's posts and reflecting on it. A coach has only 1 purpose and can't be retasked like the other shotguns can be. No hunting with THOSE! A pistol grip with no stock is out, O U T out. No desire to deal with the recoil in a life or death situation (or any situation, really). A pistol grip WITH a stock, like my AR or similar, is a possibility. Are there any laws prohibiting stocked pistol gripped shotguns in hunting? I'm in Louisiana, but just tell me what's it like in y'all's states. I've no idea where La. stands on it.

So now it's down to a Mossberg 500/Remington 870 or the CZ Bobwhite. Tomorrow, Tuesday that is, I'll be taking my dad's 12g and my sister's 20g Mossberg 500s to the range to see which gauge I'll prefer.

Quick question - for birds, does it really matter if you've got a 12g or 20g? Thanks.

OK. So, yeah. I'll see which gauge is right for me. I'll also be able to rule in/out the 500 as the gun for me. My brother has a Remington 870, but he's in New Orleans (an hours drive). I could definitely get down to him to see if, as Snyper says, the 870 feels right. By the way, Snyper - I know 100% what you mean. I do it with pistols and revolvers. One man's dream gun will feel awkward to another man. Sadly, there is no way for me to do this with the CZ. No one anywhere near here sells them to my knowledge - every CZ except the P-07 I've had to order in. It is what I'm now leaning towards. Two doses of 00 Buck or Buck & Ball or other SD load oughtta be enough and the gun would be superb were I to ever go hunting. It's not like I've the money for several shotguns and I don't have the overwhelming interest in even having 2. I'd rather a rifle, pistol or revolver. I can't get the FN Five-seven outta my head, despite it's price, the ammo price/availability and it's generally unproven nature (I like stuf with decades of proving under it's belt) and will likely never buy it.

Trivia: Were I to buy a weapon of each class (besides the shotgun, which will happen) tomorrow they'd be = S&W 627 (MSRP $999) revolver, the CZ 75 SP-01 Tactical (MSRP $680) semi and Remington's 700 SPS Tactical (MSRP $788 + a scope more $ than the gun!). All have stood the test of time w/ flying colors.

Well, y'all, at this second my choice would be the Bobwhite by CZ. It looks like it comes only with a 26" barrel. PLEASE tell me the limitations as well as the advantages of a shotgun this length.

What do y'all think of Stoeger? Especially these two.

Uplander Longfowler:
http://www.stoegerindustries.com/lon...y-side-shotgun

OR the Uplander Field:
http://www.stoegerindustries.com/uplander-field-shotgun

Or just Stoeger in general? It's much cheaper than the CZ and, like I've said - or at least implied - I won't be shotgunning too often. If it's crap, of course, it's crap. I know zero about them or their shotguns. Know loads about CZ - they are superb. Anyways....

Many Thanks! God Bless You All,
Pan

[FITASC]

The BobWhite is a SxS and you are comparing to a pump - apples to cucmbers.

I find 26" barrels to be too short. I also find Stoeger guns made in Brazil to be a complete waste of money as they suck from every aspect of a gun - handling, fit, balance, finish, reliability and overall quality. IMO a person with zero machining experience could do a better job.

[Blindstitch]

Quick question - for birds, does it really matter if you've got a 12g or 20g? Thanks.

Yes it matters. Think quantity. The 20 gauge shell is smaller so say you're shooting 12 gauge 1 1/8th ounce of bbs vs the 20 gauges 3/4th ounce of bbs. In the long run that could be as many as 100 bbs less. Also the 12 gauges have more parts options for the remington and mossberg.

I like 20 gauges and have shot grouse up to geese with them but if I ever decided to go shoot geese or say turkey I wouldn't be bringing a 20 gauge along.

There is also an option of getting reduced load either bbs or recoil loads in the 12 gauge dropping it down to realistically a 20 gauge. Steel shot for certain birds dropped my use of the 20 gauge a lot. Lead holds more momentum but is more toxic depending what governing force is saying so but steel doesn't like reaching way out there unless you upsize the shot size.

What ever you do get a gun that fits and it will be more comfortable to shoot.

[Snyper]

Are there any laws prohibiting stocked pistol gripped shotguns in hunting?

There are no such restrictions here
I hunt with a Benelli M1S90 Tactical

If you're not hunting waterfowl, you'd be just as well off with a 20 GA, and it will be lighter to carry around

[Doyle]

Are there any laws prohibiting stocked pistol gripped shotguns in hunting?

Even if not against the law, I think it will hinder your ability to swing on a flying bird. For non-flying birds (i.e. turkeys), many hunters use a pistol gripped shotgun.

[Doyle]

Since you are in LA, there is one kind of unique hunting you have over there that the rest of us don't. Go over to Youtube and watch the videos of hunting nutria from airboats. That looks like serious fun. Last I checked, the state was still paying a $5 bounty for each nutria killed.

[FITASC]

Are there any laws prohibiting stocked pistol gripped shotguns in hunting?
Even if not against the law, I think it will hinder your ability to swing on a flying bird. For non-flying birds (i.e. turkeys), many hunters use a pistol gripped shotgun.

Take that advice to the bank

[Panoply]

Well, Blindstitch, I'd not be hunting waterfowl. Or very unlikely to. But your point about lower recoil loads for 12g is well taken and wasn't something I'd considered....

Doyle, 'varminting' nutria is about as close as I get to hunting regularly. The $5 I didn't know about. I knew of a bounty but didn't know it was so high! Some days I and my friends could have cleared a few hundred bucks, easy! It'd be nast toting them around, though. Besides, we mostly kill them while on foot or in a canoe or kayak. Never been on an airboat in my life believe it nor not. Nor hooked and shot and tagged alligators We kill them with .22's and sometimes take our AR's out after them. The .22 is preferred, for obvious reasons (portability, ease of use while in a small boat). I LOVE killing nutria. In a kayak (or canoe, I just use a kayak) you can glide up to where you can practically touch them sometimes - though of course we mostly shoot them from a distance as it's more fun and sporting. $5... Hmmm... Gonna look into that. Still, nasty to carry them around in a small boat, let alone on foot.

OK. Pistol gripped shotguns are out for hunting, unless I decide that that is the type I want to have in which case needs must. I need to check La. law.

FITASC, wow. Really down on Stoeger. Does anyone else have input on Stoeger? I'd really like to get a lot. May start a new thread just asking about them. What about 26" barrels? Y'all all agree they're too short?

I guess what I really ned help from y'all now on is the quality of Stoeger and opinions on 26" barrels. To go longer with CZ would require me going to over-unders. Not outside of what I'd do, but I'd rather the SxS. Need info on barrel length! Also, if I wanted to stay in the double barrel line, what other companies might I check out? I like wood furniture, nice wood furniture, if I go double barrel and that puts Mossberg and Remington right out. Who else is out there? Remember, my $ maxs out under $1,000 and I'd like to stay as far away from that figure as possible, naturally.

[Dreaming100Straight]

Please not another thread about Stoegers. Just use any search engine, including the TFL search feature.

[Blindstitch]

I think but can't confirm that all you need to do is cut the nutrias tail off. Basically shows it was killed.

Going to double barrels will make this thread go crazy. I would suggest that for your second gun.

[Virginian]

Louisiana is quite possibly THE most gun friendly state. Almost no restrictions on anything. And UNLESS you signed a pre-employment agreement to the contrary, you can take the gun to work in the car and leave it in the parking lot, because your car is an extension of your home and the castle doctrine. This HAS been proved in court already BTW.
I forget what part you need to prove a kill, but you do NOT need to hang on to the whole nutria. The rules are online.
If you get an 870 or a Mossberg, whichever you prefer, after you shoot it a while you may form some preferences of your own that will be EXTREMELY helpful before you decide to drop more money on a decent SxS. You can change parts and do a lot of different things with a good pump; with a SxS you have what you have, so you need to be a lot more sure what you want in a gun, and what you want to do with it, BEFORE you drop your bucks on one. As soon as you walk out the door with ANY brand new gun, you are going to take a hit trading it if you find something doesn't suit you. After buying and selling guns for years, and owning well over a hundred of my own, believe that.

[Doyle]

It looks like it is $4 per tail (the tail is what you turn in).
http://www.nutria.com/site9.php

[Panoply]

Hello Again, y'all,

I don't know if $4 bucks is worth it for chopping off and transporting the tail of a nutria to the appropriate place. I'll still keep killing these wetlands destroying pests, but don't see myself collecting tails. Maybe that'll change.

Virginian; oh yes! I know a lot about gun laws in La. My gun has a 'permanent' S&W 642 in it. As does my sister's, a gift from her big bro. Just about everyone I know, if they're into guns at all, carries one in their car at all times. I keep meaning to get a carry permit, but something always seems to come up. Pretty easy to get one here, just takes a weekend class, some paperwork and less than $200 (which includes the class and fees). Easy peasy. Need to shift myself and get it done.

As for waiting to get a double barrel as my second shotgun, that's just it. I won't be shotgunning enough to really justify two shotguns. I'm all about pistols (revolvers AND semis) and rifles. I'll still give it some though, though. I know that once you buy a gun it depreciates enormously - fired or not. Would hate to get a gun that didn't 'fit' with me and be stuck with it. Thing is, CZ... just can't imagine not loving one. But it's possible it will feel all wrong at my shoulder.

Still would love to hear y'all's opinion regarding barrel length. Yes, Stoeger is OUT. I searched threads here and have concluded they may very well be crap. So bye bye Stoeger. I like the CZ Bobwhite, but one guy has told me a 26" barrel is just a bad idea. That leaves me with either the Mallard or the Redhead Premier. Why not the Canvasback? I simply won't buy a gun that has golden ducks on it. Silly, maybe, but that's how it is. The Mallard is certainly by far the more affordable - cheaper than a Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 while still being a double barrel. I need feedback, y'all, on barrel length!!! That and now CZ's Mallard and Redhead Premier. I may need to start a new thread on CZ's shotguns in double barrel. I'll see what turns up here first, though.

Thanks again!

[Virginian]

You can get a Virginia Non-resident concealed carry permit, and it is recognized by Louisiana, for a $20 online class and a $100 application fee. Easier than taking a class in Louisiana. That's what I did. A lot of states recognize other states CCLs now. They say they are getting more applications from Texas than Virginia now that the word is out.

[Blindstitch]

As for waiting to get a double barrel as my second shotgun, that's just it. I won't be shotgunning enough to really justify two shotguns.

If you're not shooting enough to have two than it's almost hard to justify one.

What I mean is I have a nice double side by side field gun that shot 13 pheasants and a quail this year.

I have a Mossberg 500 that I used last year and shot 14 pheasants. If for some reason I had to take a gun into a place that involved unexpected water and other conditions the Mossberg would be coming with me and the double sitting at home warm and dry.

In the long run both guns shoot just as much per year so even if it's not hunting they get used. Along with the other two in the safe.

If you need only one good beauty get the double. If you need a workhorse then get the 500/870. Both will be worth half after being fired/used. I think places like gander mountain only offer 60% of value on trades/buybacks. $1000 gun goes quickly down to $600 in their eyes.

[Blindstitch]

Looks like that Cz Mallard comes only in double triggers.
http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-mallard...5-choke-tubes/

Not sure how $583 is cheaper than the Mossbergs $284
http://www.fleetfarm.com/detail/moss.../0000000066860

Your stores may differ.

By all means start a CZ thread if you're leaning that way because many guys here should know a great deal about them.

[FITASC]

FITASC, wow. Really down on Stoeger.

Absolutely. There is nothing more disheartening than seeing some new kid with one that he just bought and he brings it out to shoot some skeet or 5-stand and it doesn't make it through the first 25.....he can't sell it for what he has in it - even if it gets fixed - and he basically wasted several hundred dollars that he may or may not have had in the first place.
BUT, it's your money, spend it as you see fit.