Made the cover of the San Diego Reader!

pullnshoot25 · July 16, 2009, 03:13 AM

I made the cover of the SD reader for Open Carry in San Diego and I thought I would share that with you all.

http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2009/jul/15/cover/

CARRY ON!

-N8

**Bud Helms** · July 16, 2009, 08:28 AM

Great article. It sounds like you guys are doing it right and we all may benefit.

I know it takes courage to step out in the open that way in any large urban environment.

Les Auten · July 16, 2009, 08:39 AM

Good article, I was afraid it was going to be a hit piece when I read the cover.
I hope she enjoyed it enough to continue shooting.

grumpycoconut · July 16, 2009, 01:42 PM

All things considered, an excellent article. One question though. Why your insistence on asking if the police are "requesting" or "demanding". Your question has no bearing on the legality of the contact, the inspection or your legal ability to carry. Its no different than the requirement that you present your license, registration and proof of insurance during a traffic stop. No matter how nice the cop is in asking, you still stand to get a legal smacked bottom if you refuse to cough up your documents. It reminds me of the old hippy myth that LE was required to answer truthfully if you asked them if they were now or ever members of law enforcement before you sold them dope. At worst you risk alienating a cop who may be generally supportive of open carry by making him perceive you as a wingnut who wants to push his buttons and suck him into a law suit. At best your question might induce an idiot to pick a fight with you. I guess that might gain you martyr status as you fight your way through the system, but is that what you want and is it worth it to you?

The way I see it a bare request is something that you can refuse to grant without fear of sanction. A request backed by the power of law and threat of sanction should you fail to acceed to the request is, no matter how politely phrased, a demand. If hunny bunny pouts and asks you most sweetly to do something for her but you know that you will a couch sleeper be if you don't do it, is it really a request?

Regardless of what we all might want the law to be, the fact remains that 12031(e) gives police the authority to inspect your firearms whether you like it or not and arrest you if you fail to comply.

neon · July 16, 2009, 01:44 PM

Congrats!

cbrgator · July 16, 2009, 02:16 PM

Two thumbs up.

Kreyzhorse · July 16, 2009, 02:34 PM

Nice article. Thanks for posting.

johnwilliamson062 · July 16, 2009, 02:48 PM

A police officer can legally request almost anything and if you comply it is not unconstitutional or illegal. If he demands it it is.

Great article.

markj · July 16, 2009, 04:55 PM

Open carry unloaded weapons? Why? It is of no use unloaded well you could hit someone with it I imagine. What does this prove anyway? We get CCW here and carry legal with out anyone else knowing we are armed. Kinda takes the surprise out of it.

Wildalaska · July 16, 2009, 05:03 PM

As usual Im going to be the grinch and say that the actions described do little to advance the cause of gun ownership and are tactically unsound. The described actions towards the police are childish.

I will give the folks credit for having the courage of their convictions.

WildnowwatchthefolkstrytoiarguewithmeAlaska ™

Brian Pfleuger · July 16, 2009, 05:25 PM

Ken,

I'd agree that the actions are, perhaps, "tactically" unsound but I think the idea is more one of civil disobedience (even though it is technically legal) than any actual defensive purpose.

What would be the proper response to LE, in your opinion? If you were in this guys shoes doing what he's doing...

Wildalaska · July 16, 2009, 06:05 PM

Quote:

What would be the proper response to LE, in your opinion? If you were in this guys shoes doing what he's doing...

I wouldnt play that "requesting or demanding" game.

Can I check your gun?
Here you go Officer.

WiloddoneAlaska ™

whippoorwill · July 16, 2009, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Open carry unloaded weapons? Why? It is of no use unloaded well you could hit someone with it I imagine.

Wouldn't you say that having an unloaded weapon and a loaded magazine on your person was better than having to run home to get them?

Brian Pfleuger · July 16, 2009, 08:11 PM

Quote:

I wouldnt play that "requesting or demanding" game.

Hm... yeah, I would probably agree with that, no sense in having an attitude unless it's called for.

markj · July 17, 2009, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Wouldn't you say that having an unloaded weapon and a loaded magazine on your person was better than having to run home to get them?

No, I would say a loaded concealed weapon is better than having to run home to get. However he has a revolver, a full mag would be of no help.

I for one see no reason to advertise what I have on my body at any time.

Cides, it created some strife from the people that hang at the beach. Not normal to see a guy with a gun strapped on in public.

Brian Pfleuger · July 17, 2009, 05:05 PM

(A)

Quote:

Cides, it created some strife from the people that hang at the beach.

(B)

Quote:

Not normal to see a guy with a gun strapped on in public.

(A) because of (B) and, ironically, (B) because of (A)

The correct answer is:

(A) Who cares.

(B) It would be if more people did it, and you wouldn't have (A).

Willis · July 17, 2009, 05:41 PM

I live in Montana and carry all the time. Sometimes open and sometimes covered, but the ammo is always in the right place. I will be in San Diego in August and would like to meet some of the guys and gals. I am always ready for a good Mexican meal. Of course I will have one or more small arms with me, I will leave the large ones at home.

Willis

Wildalaska · July 17, 2009, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Of course I will have one or more small arms with me, I will leave the large ones at home.

Don't forget your bail money

WildoimsorryyouwerjustpuffinhowrudeofmetomentionthatAlaska ™

Mello2u · July 17, 2009, 07:38 PM

Quote:

markj

Quote:

Wouldn't you say that having an unloaded weapon and a loaded magazine on your person was better than having to run home to get them?

No, I would say a loaded concealed weapon is better than having to run home to get. However he has a revolver, a full mag would be of no help.

I for one see no reason to advertise what I have on my body at any time.

Cides, it created some strife from the people that hang at the beach. Not normal to see a guy with a gun strapped on in public.

Markj,
You went off on a tangent. Its not what you prefer from an unrestricted set of choices.
What would you choose from the following:
1) leave all weapons at home; do not carry any weapon in public
2) carry an unloaded hand gun in the open carry mode and some ammo in a pocket.
3) carry a concealed loaded hand gun without a permit

In Kalifornia pursuant to the current laws if you choose #1 or #2 you are legal. If you choose #3 you violate Penal Code section 12025. Whether that is a felony or a misdemeanor I do not know.

Which do you choose?

Paul B. · July 18, 2009, 03:00 PM

"In Kalifornia pursuant to the current laws if you choose #1 or #2 you are legal. If you choose #3 you violate Penal Code section 12025. Whether that is a felony or a misdemeanor I do not know.'

I believe it's a felony. The very last time I went to Kommiefornia, I was carrying a little Beretta Minx. (.22 Short no less) I wa svisiting a close friend and when I showed the gun to him, he freaked out and told me it was a felony.

It's been about 14 years since I went to the land of fruits, nuts and flakes, so if anything has changed along those lines, it's probably gotten worse.
Paul B.

Wait, I'm Reloadin' · July 18, 2009, 04:55 PM

okay 2 questions, does this open carry method work for someone just visiting from another state, or does the person have to register this firearm first.

And if it is illegal search and seizure to check the gun without you breaking some law, even if they found the gun loaded they would have found the gun loaded by a illegal search method? with a revolver you could see brass in the cyl, but not with a semi in a holster.

kermit315 · July 18, 2009, 07:48 PM

First time CCW without permit is a Misdemeanor.

pullnshoot carries open, because most in california cant get a CCW, the only provision in the law at that point is UOC, or unloaded open carry.

that same law allows officers to perform an unloaded check. all they are legally allowed to do is verify that the gun is unloaded. after that, if you arent being detained for something else, they are supposed to cut off the contact.

as far as if it works if you are visiting, yes, you can. you have no need to register unless you are moving into the state, in which case you would have to send the volreg form and 19 dollars to CALDOJ.

pullnshoot, I didnt see this up over on calguns. Where is it buried?

pullnshoot25 · July 19, 2009, 06:54 PM

Kermit: It is under 2A on CGN.

To all others... the "request or demand" verbiage is to provide basis for not voluntarily giving up our 4th amendment rights any more than they are already being intruded upon.

di$TOrTed · July 19, 2009, 09:13 PM

Congrats on the article!

Anticonn · July 19, 2009, 10:15 PM

That was a pretty good read, I'm registering on CarryColorado right now to get in on some OC events.

Here in CO it can be loaded, condition 1 and all. But that leads me to wonder, when the police come to check your weapon, can you not refuse? If they're requesting, knowing that a demand is a violation of your civil rights, just as you can (and should) decline a search of your vehicle without probable cause why would you not do the same for your weapon?

On a side note, CO goes a step further in that matter, Article II Section 13 of the CO constitution:
The right of no person to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property ... shall be called in question

God I love my state.

July 16, 2009, 01:42 PM	#4
grumpycoconut Member Join Date: March 14, 2008 Location: Kalifornia Posts: 77	All things considered, an excellent article. One question though. Why your insistence on asking if the police are "requesting" or "demanding". Your question has no bearing on the legality of the contact, the inspection or your legal ability to carry. Its no different than the requirement that you present your license, registration and proof of insurance during a traffic stop. No matter how nice the cop is in asking, you still stand to get a legal smacked bottom if you refuse to cough up your documents. It reminds me of the old hippy myth that LE was required to answer truthfully if you asked them if they were now or ever members of law enforcement before you sold them dope. At worst you risk alienating a cop who may be generally supportive of open carry by making him perceive you as a wingnut who wants to push his buttons and suck him into a law suit. At best your question might induce an idiot to pick a fight with you. I guess that might gain you martyr status as you fight your way through the system, but is that what you want and is it worth it to you? The way I see it a bare request is something that you can refuse to grant without fear of sanction. A request backed by the power of law and threat of sanction should you fail to acceed to the request is, no matter how politely phrased, a demand. If hunny bunny pouts and asks you most sweetly to do something for her but you know that you will a couch sleeper be if you don't do it, is it really a request? Regardless of what we all might want the law to be, the fact remains that 12031(e) gives police the authority to inspect your firearms whether you like it or not and arrest you if you fail to comply. __________________ "To spit on your hands and lower the pike; to stand fast over the body of Leonidas the King; to be rear guard at Kunu-Ri; to stand and be still to the Birkenhead Drill; these are not rational acts. They are often merely necessary." Pournelle

July 16, 2009, 02:34 PM	#7
Kreyzhorse Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2006 Location: NKY Posts: 12,463	Nice article. Thanks for posting. __________________ "He who laughs last, laughs dead." Homer Simpson

July 16, 2009, 05:25 PM	#11
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Ken, I'd agree that the actions are, perhaps, "tactically" unsound but I think the idea is more one of civil disobedience (even though it is technically legal) than any actual defensive purpose. What would be the proper response to LE, in your opinion? If you were in this guys shoes doing what he's doing... __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; July 16, 2009 at 05:34 PM.

July 17, 2009, 05:41 PM	#17
Willis Member Join Date: June 14, 2005 Location: Montana Posts: 37	San Diego I live in Montana and carry all the time. Sometimes open and sometimes covered, but the ammo is always in the right place. I will be in San Diego in August and would like to meet some of the guys and gals. I am always ready for a good Mexican meal. Of course I will have one or more small arms with me, I will leave the large ones at home. Willis

July 18, 2009, 03:00 PM	#20
Paul B. Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 1999 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,802	"In Kalifornia pursuant to the current laws if you choose #1 or #2 you are legal. If you choose #3 you violate Penal Code section 12025. Whether that is a felony or a misdemeanor I do not know.' I believe it's a felony. The very last time I went to Kommiefornia, I was carrying a little Beretta Minx. (.22 Short no less) I wa svisiting a close friend and when I showed the gun to him, he freaked out and told me it was a felony. It's been about 14 years since I went to the land of fruits, nuts and flakes, so if anything has changed along those lines, it's probably gotten worse. Paul B. __________________ COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!

July 16, 2009, 03:13 AM	#1
pullnshoot25 Member Join Date: January 6, 2007 Posts: 24	Made the cover of the San Diego Reader! I made the cover of the SD reader for Open Carry in San Diego and I thought I would share that with you all. http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2009/jul/15/cover/ CARRY ON! -N8

July 16, 2009, 08:28 AM	#2
Bud Helms Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 1999 Location: Middle Georgia, USA Posts: 13,198	Great article. It sounds like you guys are doing it right and we all may benefit. I know it takes courage to step out in the open that way in any large urban environment.

July 16, 2009, 08:39 AM	#3
Les Auten Member Join Date: September 11, 2004 Location: Cass City MI Posts: 87	Good article, I was afraid it was going to be a hit piece when I read the cover. I hope she enjoyed it enough to continue shooting.

July 16, 2009, 01:44 PM	#5
neon Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2009 Posts: 196	Congrats!

July 16, 2009, 02:16 PM	#6
cbrgator Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2009 Posts: 135	Two thumbs up.

July 16, 2009, 02:48 PM	#8
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	A police officer can legally request almost anything and if you comply it is not unconstitutional or illegal. If he demands it it is. Great article.

July 16, 2009, 04:55 PM	#9
markj Senior Member Join Date: October 27, 2005 Location: Crescent Iowa Posts: 2,971	Open carry unloaded weapons? Why? It is of no use unloaded well you could hit someone with it I imagine. What does this prove anyway? We get CCW here and carry legal with out anyone else knowing we are armed. Kinda takes the surprise out of it.

July 16, 2009, 05:03 PM	#10
Wildalaska Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 14,172	As usual Im going to be the grinch and say that the actions described do little to advance the cause of gun ownership and are tactically unsound. The described actions towards the police are childish. I will give the folks credit for having the courage of their convictions. WildnowwatchthefolkstrytoiarguewithmeAlaska ™

July 18, 2009, 04:55 PM	#21
Wait, I'm Reloadin' Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2008 Posts: 130	okay 2 questions, does this open carry method work for someone just visiting from another state, or does the person have to register this firearm first. And if it is illegal search and seizure to check the gun without you breaking some law, even if they found the gun loaded they would have found the gun loaded by a illegal search method? with a revolver you could see brass in the cyl, but not with a semi in a holster.

July 18, 2009, 07:48 PM	#22
kermit315 Member Join Date: July 12, 2007 Location: PT Mugu NAWC, CA Posts: 55	First time CCW without permit is a Misdemeanor. pullnshoot carries open, because most in california cant get a CCW, the only provision in the law at that point is UOC, or unloaded open carry. that same law allows officers to perform an unloaded check. all they are legally allowed to do is verify that the gun is unloaded. after that, if you arent being detained for something else, they are supposed to cut off the contact. as far as if it works if you are visiting, yes, you can. you have no need to register unless you are moving into the state, in which case you would have to send the volreg form and 19 dollars to CALDOJ. pullnshoot, I didnt see this up over on calguns. Where is it buried? __________________ Ruger P89 with Hogue grip Mossberg 183 DB bolt action .410 Charles Daly Field Tactical 12ga Walther P22

July 19, 2009, 06:54 PM	#23
pullnshoot25 Member Join Date: January 6, 2007 Posts: 24	Kermit: It is under 2A on CGN. To all others... the "request or demand" verbiage is to provide basis for not voluntarily giving up our 4th amendment rights any more than they are already being intruded upon.

July 19, 2009, 09:13 PM	#24
di$TOrTed Member Join Date: July 17, 2009 Location: VA Posts: 31	Congrats on the article!

July 19, 2009, 10:15 PM	#25
Anticonn Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 174	That was a pretty good read, I'm registering on CarryColorado right now to get in on some OC events. Here in CO it can be loaded, condition 1 and all. But that leads me to wonder, when the police come to check your weapon, can you not refuse? If they're requesting, knowing that a demand is a violation of your civil rights, just as you can (and should) decline a search of your vehicle without probable cause why would you not do the same for your weapon? On a side note, CO goes a step further in that matter, Article II Section 13 of the CO constitution: The right of no person to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property ... shall be called in question God I love my state. __________________ "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin, 1759