a sight screw question.

Gavlan · January 15, 2016, 09:42 AM

Morning,
I have a 2A1 Enfeild with a Rawson sight fixed on it but the screw which holds the upright arm to the side plate is of the Allen head variety and looks terrible , it just isn't right.
Now do any of you good folks out there know what size the threads are on the plate ?.
I think the Allen screw hole was d/t a little bigger for the screw to fit ,and it does but I would like to use a slotted screw.
The side plate has four more holes going towards the butt of the rifle and I would dearly like to get a screw and use another hole and chunk the allen screw.
Thanks I will try to post a pic so you know what I'm babbling on about but don't hold ya breath,,,,

wogpotter · January 15, 2016, 09:58 AM

Most of the rifle threads were "BA", Its entirely possible the sight kept that going.
If they are BA threads try the local British classic car clubs & so on as many of the older MG's & so on were also "BA", which was a standard.
These guys can probably help you out.
http://britishfasteners.com/threads/

g.willikers · January 15, 2016, 10:27 AM

Here's a chart of BA sizes:
http://www.trfastenings.com/pages/BA+Thread+Sizes
It could be worse, it could be Whitworth.

Gavlan · January 15, 2016, 11:56 AM

[IMG]

[/IMG].

thanks fellas , here's the sight and the offending screw.
The links are welcome , thanks.
I guess I could take the allen out and get a screw to match the " modern" thread , which I'm sure was re-tapped cos the original holes are a tad smaller so I know the first hole has been screwed with ,,,so to speak..

wogpotter · January 15, 2016, 01:31 PM

There's ouwt fer nowt wrong wi' Whitworth.
http://britishfasteners.com/threads/bsw.html

wogpotter · January 15, 2016, 01:34 PM

You might find that the re-tapped hole is actually metric. Metric is really close, but not identical to BA, so many times a metric was bodged into the existing BA thread.

Take the hex bolt to a Lowes or Home Despot & have them run it through the thread checker in the hardware dept, they may have a direct replacement that's oxidized black & slotted.

Gavlan · January 15, 2016, 05:36 PM

Wogpotter that's a good Yorkshire dialect slang you have there,,( I was born in Yorkshire ,UK ) and the Lowes or Home depot idea is great I got both near by.
Guess I'm off to town in the morrow....

wogpotter · January 16, 2016, 10:54 AM

Vrum Brizzle meself.
Y' know what they say about Wurzles.

g.willikers · January 16, 2016, 11:46 AM

I've spend some time in York.
A very nice town.
But I liked Chester even more.
Back in the day, working on British cars required Whitworth tools.
The only source was maybe in the tool kits that came with the cars.
Otherwise we had to whittle and make them from our regular ones.
Every once in awhile I still run across one in the tool box, and wonder why it doesn't work.

wogpotter · January 16, 2016, 01:16 PM

It was all part of the fun, some makers were Whitworth & some were BA.
We used to buy "AF" wrenches.

"AF" wasn't any particular tread/head convention like the American Fine, it was the distance Across Flats of the heads.

http://www.baconsdozen.co.uk/tools/ImperialAF.htm

BMW were even worse the bolt heads weren't sized to match the bolt shank, but to fit the BMW supplied wrenches in the tool kit so you didn't need many of them.

g.willikers · January 16, 2016, 04:34 PM

Hence the popularity of crescent wrenches.

Guns can get goofy, too.
At a match I attended in a galaxy far, far away, a fellow had a pistol with a slide stop hole way too big for the slide stop.
Thanks to my ever present tool box, we found a suitable bolt and nut to hold things together in place of the too small stop that kept falling out.
It worked just fine, too, even if looking like something out of the Beverly Hillbillies.

BoogieMan · January 19, 2016, 12:52 PM

Chances of finding a slotted fillister or cheese head screw that is not plated is slim. Home Depot or Lowes certainly will not have them. Go to a machine shop with the screw or an old fashioned hardware store and they can likely identify it for you. Then you can start your search.
I would try www.mcmaster.com

January 15, 2016, 09:42 AM	#1
Gavlan Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2015 Posts: 108	a sight screw question. Morning, I have a 2A1 Enfeild with a Rawson sight fixed on it but the screw which holds the upright arm to the side plate is of the Allen head variety and looks terrible , it just isn't right. Now do any of you good folks out there know what size the threads are on the plate ?. I think the Allen screw hole was d/t a little bigger for the screw to fit ,and it does but I would like to use a slotted screw. The side plate has four more holes going towards the butt of the rifle and I would dearly like to get a screw and use another hole and chunk the allen screw. Thanks I will try to post a pic so you know what I'm babbling on about but don't hold ya breath,,,,

January 15, 2016, 09:58 AM	#2
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	Most of the rifle threads were "BA", Its entirely possible the sight kept that going. If they are BA threads try the local British classic car clubs & so on as many of the older MG's & so on were also "BA", which was a standard. These guys can probably help you out. http://britishfasteners.com/threads/ __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

January 15, 2016, 10:27 AM	#3
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Here's a chart of BA sizes: http://www.trfastenings.com/pages/BA+Thread+Sizes It could be worse, it could be Whitworth. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.” Last edited by g.willikers; January 15, 2016 at 10:32 AM.

January 15, 2016, 11:56 AM	#4
Gavlan Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2015 Posts: 108	[IMG][/IMG]. thanks fellas , here's the sight and the offending screw. The links are welcome , thanks. I guess I could take the allen out and get a screw to match the " modern" thread , which I'm sure was re-tapped cos the original holes are a tad smaller so I know the first hole has been screwed with ,,,so to speak..

January 15, 2016, 01:31 PM	#5
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	There's ouwt fer nowt wrong wi' Whitworth. http://britishfasteners.com/threads/bsw.html __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

January 15, 2016, 01:34 PM	#6
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	You might find that the re-tapped hole is actually metric. Metric is really close, but not identical to BA, so many times a metric was bodged into the existing BA thread. Take the hex bolt to a Lowes or Home Despot & have them run it through the thread checker in the hardware dept, they may have a direct replacement that's oxidized black & slotted. __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

January 15, 2016, 05:36 PM	#7
Gavlan Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2015 Posts: 108	Wogpotter that's a good Yorkshire dialect slang you have there,,( I was born in Yorkshire ,UK ) and the Lowes or Home depot idea is great I got both near by. Guess I'm off to town in the morrow....

January 16, 2016, 10:54 AM	#8
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	Vrum Brizzle meself. Y' know what they say about Wurzles. __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

January 16, 2016, 11:46 AM	#9
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	I've spend some time in York. A very nice town. But I liked Chester even more. Back in the day, working on British cars required Whitworth tools. The only source was maybe in the tool kits that came with the cars. Otherwise we had to whittle and make them from our regular ones. Every once in awhile I still run across one in the tool box, and wonder why it doesn't work. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

January 16, 2016, 01:16 PM	#10
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	It was all part of the fun, some makers were Whitworth & some were BA. We used to buy "AF" wrenches. "AF" wasn't any particular tread/head convention like the American Fine, it was the distance Across Flats of the heads. http://www.baconsdozen.co.uk/tools/ImperialAF.htm BMW were even worse the bolt heads weren't sized to match the bolt shank, but to fit the BMW supplied wrenches in the tool kit so you didn't need many of them. __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

January 16, 2016, 04:34 PM	#11
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Hence the popularity of crescent wrenches. Guns can get goofy, too. At a match I attended in a galaxy far, far away, a fellow had a pistol with a slide stop hole way too big for the slide stop. Thanks to my ever present tool box, we found a suitable bolt and nut to hold things together in place of the too small stop that kept falling out. It worked just fine, too, even if looking like something out of the Beverly Hillbillies. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

January 19, 2016, 12:52 PM	#12
BoogieMan Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2012 Location: South Jersey Posts: 2,217	Chances of finding a slotted fillister or cheese head screw that is not plated is slim. Home Depot or Lowes certainly will not have them. Go to a machine shop with the screw or an old fashioned hardware store and they can likely identify it for you. Then you can start your search. I would try www.mcmaster.com __________________ Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it. Milton Freidman "If you find yourself in a fair fight,,, Your tactics suck"- Unknown