Hello, please help any advice is great guns confiscated

ag3nt · August 13, 2012, 12:02 AM

Hello long time lurker first time poster. Today my girl and i along with another couple went to some state land in southeast mi, we had a glock 19 (my girls) a m&p9mm and a m&p15-22 rifle both mine. we shot some targets safely for about 2 hours then left. We were pulled over immediatly by rifle point by local police forced onto the gravel face first and handcuffed and searched. I understand they wanted to make things safe and we were legal, which my girl and i both have our cpl. our guests didnt however. clean records all around. I guess someonemade a complaint about gunfire. After about an hour he told me i cant shoot on state land ande confiscated my guns (all 3 ) because he said they were unregistered. had my pistol for about 3 months my girls had hers a few weeks and the rifle is 3 days old. i have receipts and paperwork.

will I ever see my property again?
thank you all for your time

btw m&p-was in center console - glock was in her purse rifle was unloaded in the trunk

ag3nt · August 13, 2012, 12:04 AM

by the way im completely unarmed and feel naked (my shoulder hurts an ihave handcuff marks 4 hours later but i understand the situation) i thought it was legal to shoot on state land

hogdogs · August 13, 2012, 12:11 AM

MI as in "Michigan"... Sounds like you failed to adhere to the laws of the land (unregistered firearms) so you likely don't have a leg to stand on to get them back...
Draconian as the law may be, you have to play by their rules...

BTW, most states do not have such laws... I live, intentionally, in one of those...

Brent

ag3nt · August 13, 2012, 12:14 AM

he said prove with us there yours (paperwork) and u can have em, nut this whole thing seems weird fishy, i know ignorance of the law does not make it ok i did this i understand i should have investigated more before going

ag3nt · August 13, 2012, 12:16 AM

both pistols are registered and long guns dont have to be.

we also have concealed pistol licenses

hogdogs · August 13, 2012, 12:20 AM

Mia Culpa... Your initial post did not clearly state you registered them but failed to carry paperwork...

Possibly showing the paperwork to the PD may get them back...

Brent

ag3nt · August 13, 2012, 12:23 AM

sorry bout that, im an honest citizen i figured it was implied that im legal and have all documentation, but thats where im at i dont know this situation at all and never heard of anything like this, i thought id get a fine or something, has anyone ever dealt with this??

hogdogs · August 13, 2012, 02:01 AM

Come mornin' your thread will get some coverage... Most of our sage legal minds are quick to bed early to rise types... Be patient, Grasshopper...

Brent

firespec35 · August 13, 2012, 02:08 AM

Where exactly were you? It depends on what state land you were on. IIRC state recreation areas, Target shooting is prohibited even if hunting is allowed. It has to be specific areas to shoot (State game areas etc...) I can't remember exactly because the only public area I shoot at is the pit in lapeer.
As for confiscating your guns. Welcome to the DNR. They have more unbridled power than any police agency. Good luck. Call a lawyer
ETA* missed the part where you said its local pd. That's crap there yours you were legally carrying them. Take your ri60s in and get your stuff back. As for the rifle hopefully you have the reciept. If it wasn't reported stolen they shouldn't have taken it.

PS My gut is saying there is more to this story. Maybe it the gut of a cynical old ghetto medic, but my gut is right more than wrong.

sigcurious · August 13, 2012, 12:11 PM

Didn't realize you meant another thread here on TFL, so since the other one is closed...

Quote:
A License to Purchase a Pistol is valid for 10 days to purchase a pistol. The seller must sign the license and keep one copy for his/her records. An individual must keep a copy and return two copies to the local police department within 10 days of purchasing the pistol.

Did you return the copies?

or

Quote:
There is an exception for a person licensed in Michigan to carry a concealed pistol. He or she must obtain a Pistol Sales Record (RI-060) any time he or she purchases or otherwise acquires a pistol, pursuant to MCL 28.422a.

Do you have your records to take to court?

**Tom Servo** · August 13, 2012, 12:43 PM

The police report should be available shortly. That may give us some context as to what you've been charged with, and what action might be taken.

Without further information, all we can really do is speculate, and that's not very productive.

ag3nt · August 13, 2012, 01:53 PM

update....... just got back from the trip out there to pick them up.... they were magically registered when i got there.. not 12 hours ago but just now they were hmmmmm. ive contacted a lawyer i believe they violated my rights..........my guns are back though

servo- not arrested no ticket nothing, i was literally put in handcuffs until the searched my car-forgot what thats called

BarryLee · August 13, 2012, 02:35 PM

Good news.

So, if you live in a state where firearm registration is required how does that work? Are they in some type of LEO accessible database? Are you issued some type of documentation you have to carry with you?

sigcurious · August 13, 2012, 02:56 PM

Still feels like something is missing here.

There still should be an incident report generated for a detention and seizure of property. That would be a good place to start, by getting the report number so your lawyer can get copies.

**Aguila Blanca** · August 13, 2012, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ag3nt

sorry bout that, im an honest citizen i figured it was implied that im legal and have all documentation ...

a) Nothing is implied on the Internet. If you don't say it ... it isn't said.

b) You could be 100 percent legal and still not have documentation. I keep all receipts for firearms in an envelope in my gun safe -- except that about a year ago that envelope went walk-about. I am 100 percent legal for every firearm I own ... but I don't have documentation to prove it. The oldest was my grandfather's .22 rifle, which is now mine. No receipt for a gift from my grandfather, of course, but entirely legal. Next oldest is a .22 revolver I bought before all the paperwork requirements came into being. I haven't seen the receipt for that one in nearly 50 years, but it was all bought and paid for from a legitimate FFL gun shop.

ET. · August 13, 2012, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ag3nt:

ive contacted a lawyer i believe they violated my rights

You got caught leaving a public place where you just broke local laws by firing a weapon on public land (target shooting). You were handcuffed because you were armed and had just broken some laws. They confiscated your weapons that you used to break the law. You got your guns back when you went in & proved that they were legal. Where were your rights trampled on? You don't have the right to break laws and not pay a price for it. Not knowing that it is illegal to shoot firearms on public land doesn't change that.

If it were me I'd be thankful that I didn't have to spend the night in jail & thankful that I got my firearms back. Your rights would be violated if they had stopped you for no apparent reason and cuffed you & confiscated your guns. Trouble is that you were leaving an area where you had just broken their laws.

Willie Sutton · August 13, 2012, 06:15 PM

^^^^^^^^^ What he said:

"If it were me I'd be thankful that I didn't have to spend the night in jail & thankful that I got my firearms back"

No go forth and don't do silly-stuff again. Shooting on public land against the regs makes us all look bad. Don't make us all look bad. In many states you would have forfeited your arms forever, and been fined at the very least. You got off easy.

Willie

.

**Aguila Blanca** · August 13, 2012, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ag3nt

update....... just got back from the trip out there to pick them up.... they were magically registered when i got there.. not 12 hours ago but just now they were hmmmmm. ive contacted a lawyer i believe they violated my rights..........my guns are back though

servo- not arrested no ticket nothing, i was literally put in handcuffs until the searched my car-forgot what thats called

You have your firearms back, and you did NOT get cited for breaking the law. I don't think your rights were violated. I think they cut you at least a couple of breaks and I strongly suggest that you give thanks to the deity of your choice for getting off so lightly, and drop the matter.

I'm sure others here will join me in expressing the hope that this incident will serve as a reminder that breaking laws carries consequences. Just as I posted about not assuming anything on the Internet, likewise you cannot assume anything in real life. I don't know why you thought ("assumed") it was legal to shoot on state land, but I'm fairly certain a quick Internet search of your state's web site would have taken you to some agency's page informing you that it is NOT legal. owning, carrying and shooting deadly weapons is an awesome responsibility. We who exercise our 2nd Amendment rights really can't "assume" anything.

allaroundhunter · August 13, 2012, 10:40 PM

Ag3nt....you got off easy. Unless you want worse consequences (and yes, worse is possible), I would leave it be.

Sent from my HTC One X

GM2 · August 13, 2012, 11:29 PM

Quote:

If it were me I'd be thankful that I didn't have to spend the night in jail & thankful that I got my firearms back. Your rights would be violated if they had stopped you for no apparent reason and cuffed you & confiscated your guns. Trouble is that you were leaving an area where you had just broken their laws

ET. is giving you sage advise, You were completely in the wrong and still wasn't charged with any of the violations got your guns back and now you are contacting a lawyer because you think your rights have been violated .
Chalk it up as lesson learned be thankful and move on!

**Tom Servo** · August 14, 2012, 12:16 AM

Question asked and answered. If there's any further information, start a new thread.

August 13, 2012, 12:02 AM	#1
ag3nt Junior member Join Date: August 12, 2012 Location: MI Posts: 14	Hello, please help any advice is great guns confiscated Hello long time lurker first time poster. Today my girl and i along with another couple went to some state land in southeast mi, we had a glock 19 (my girls) a m&p9mm and a m&p15-22 rifle both mine. we shot some targets safely for about 2 hours then left. We were pulled over immediatly by rifle point by local police forced onto the gravel face first and handcuffed and searched. I understand they wanted to make things safe and we were legal, which my girl and i both have our cpl. our guests didnt however. clean records all around. I guess someonemade a complaint about gunfire. After about an hour he told me i cant shoot on state land ande confiscated my guns (all 3 ) because he said they were unregistered. had my pistol for about 3 months my girls had hers a few weeks and the rifle is 3 days old. i have receipts and paperwork. will I ever see my property again? thank you all for your time btw m&p-was in center console - glock was in her purse rifle was unloaded in the trunk Last edited by ag3nt; August 13, 2012 at 12:42 AM.

August 13, 2012, 02:08 AM	#9
firespec35 Senior Member Join Date: March 24, 2006 Posts: 143	Where exactly were you? It depends on what state land you were on. IIRC state recreation areas, Target shooting is prohibited even if hunting is allowed. It has to be specific areas to shoot (State game areas etc...) I can't remember exactly because the only public area I shoot at is the pit in lapeer. As for confiscating your guns. Welcome to the DNR. They have more unbridled power than any police agency. Good luck. Call a lawyer ETA* missed the part where you said its local pd. That's crap there yours you were legally carrying them. Take your ri60s in and get your stuff back. As for the rifle hopefully you have the reciept. If it wasn't reported stolen they shouldn't have taken it. PS My gut is saying there is more to this story. Maybe it the gut of a cynical old ghetto medic, but my gut is right more than wrong. __________________ Never Forget 9/11/01 S&W 669 Last edited by Frank Ettin; August 13, 2012 at 09:21 AM. Reason: delete profanity

August 13, 2012, 12:43 PM	#11
Tom Servo Staff Join Date: September 27, 2008 Location: Foothills of the Appalachians Posts: 13,059	The police report should be available shortly. That may give us some context as to what you've been charged with, and what action might be taken. Without further information, all we can really do is speculate, and that's not very productive. __________________ Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe

August 13, 2012, 01:53 PM	#12
ag3nt Junior member Join Date: August 12, 2012 Location: MI Posts: 14	update....... just got back from the trip out there to pick them up.... they were magically registered when i got there.. not 12 hours ago but just now they were hmmmmm. ive contacted a lawyer i believe they violated my rights..........my guns are back though servo- not arrested no ticket nothing, i was literally put in handcuffs until the searched my car-forgot what thats called Last edited by ag3nt; August 13, 2012 at 02:27 PM.

August 13, 2012, 02:35 PM	#13
BarryLee Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2010 Location: The ATL (OTP) Posts: 3,946	Good news. So, if you live in a state where firearm registration is required how does that work? Are they in some type of LEO accessible database? Are you issued some type of documentation you have to carry with you? __________________ A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it ... gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

August 13, 2012, 12:04 AM	#2
ag3nt Junior member Join Date: August 12, 2012 Location: MI Posts: 14	by the way im completely unarmed and feel naked (my shoulder hurts an ihave handcuff marks 4 hours later but i understand the situation) i thought it was legal to shoot on state land

August 13, 2012, 12:11 AM	#3
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	MI as in "Michigan"... Sounds like you failed to adhere to the laws of the land (unregistered firearms) so you likely don't have a leg to stand on to get them back... Draconian as the law may be, you have to play by their rules... BTW, most states do not have such laws... I live, intentionally, in one of those... Brent

August 13, 2012, 12:14 AM	#4
ag3nt Junior member Join Date: August 12, 2012 Location: MI Posts: 14	he said prove with us there yours (paperwork) and u can have em, nut this whole thing seems weird fishy, i know ignorance of the law does not make it ok i did this i understand i should have investigated more before going

August 13, 2012, 12:16 AM	#5
ag3nt Junior member Join Date: August 12, 2012 Location: MI Posts: 14	both pistols are registered and long guns dont have to be. we also have concealed pistol licenses

August 13, 2012, 12:20 AM	#6
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Mia Culpa... Your initial post did not clearly state you registered them but failed to carry paperwork... Possibly showing the paperwork to the PD may get them back... Brent

August 13, 2012, 12:23 AM	#7
ag3nt Junior member Join Date: August 12, 2012 Location: MI Posts: 14	sorry bout that, im an honest citizen i figured it was implied that im legal and have all documentation, but thats where im at i dont know this situation at all and never heard of anything like this, i thought id get a fine or something, has anyone ever dealt with this??

August 13, 2012, 02:01 AM	#8
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Come mornin' your thread will get some coverage... Most of our sage legal minds are quick to bed early to rise types... Be patient, Grasshopper... Brent

August 13, 2012, 12:11 PM	#10
sigcurious Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 2011 Posts: 1,755	Didn't realize you meant another thread here on TFL, so since the other one is closed... Quote: A License to Purchase a Pistol is valid for 10 days to purchase a pistol. The seller must sign the license and keep one copy for his/her records. An individual must keep a copy and return two copies to the local police department within 10 days of purchasing the pistol. Did you return the copies? or Quote: There is an exception for a person licensed in Michigan to carry a concealed pistol. He or she must obtain a Pistol Sales Record (RI-060) any time he or she purchases or otherwise acquires a pistol, pursuant to MCL 28.422a. Do you have your records to take to court?

August 13, 2012, 02:56 PM	#14
sigcurious Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 2011 Posts: 1,755	Still feels like something is missing here. There still should be an incident report generated for a detention and seizure of property. That would be a good place to start, by getting the report number so your lawyer can get copies.

August 13, 2012, 06:15 PM	#17
Willie Sutton Junior member Join Date: January 26, 2012 Posts: 1,066	^^^^^^^^^ What he said: "If it were me I'd be thankful that I didn't have to spend the night in jail & thankful that I got my firearms back" No go forth and don't do silly-stuff again. Shooting on public land against the regs makes us all look bad. Don't make us all look bad. In many states you would have forfeited your arms forever, and been fined at the very least. You got off easy. Willie .

August 13, 2012, 10:40 PM	#19
allaroundhunter Senior Member Join Date: May 6, 2012 Location: Southeast Texas Posts: 1,670	Ag3nt....you got off easy. Unless you want worse consequences (and yes, worse is possible), I would leave it be. Sent from my HTC One X

August 14, 2012, 12:16 AM	#21
Tom Servo Staff Join Date: September 27, 2008 Location: Foothills of the Appalachians Posts: 13,059	Question asked and answered. If there's any further information, start a new thread. __________________ Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe