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Old March 10, 2019, 01:35 PM   #26
Fingers McGee
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Welcome back to the Forum Doc. You've been missed.
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Old March 10, 2019, 01:57 PM   #27
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Thanks Fingers

I am glad to be back and hope I can be a contributor but in the end, what's one curmudgeon more or less?
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Old March 10, 2019, 09:02 PM   #28
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Curmudgeons are a dime a dozen. Interesting curmudgeons are much rarer. You've always been in the later group Doc.
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Old March 11, 2019, 06:26 AM   #29
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Tnx, Denster

Nice to be communicating with y'all.
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Old March 11, 2019, 08:03 AM   #30
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"Back again with Percussion shotgun." I read the title and was going to skip this post. I mis took Percussion for Precision. Oppsie. Then I figured, I would post some sarcasm. Seemed prudent to look at the pics first! What a surprise! A great post & interesting gun.

It takes a curmudgeon to know one. I am in good company here.

So where am I? "North coral" I have to watch this sub forum
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Old March 11, 2019, 11:59 AM   #31
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Quote:
So where am I? "North coral" I have to watch this sub forum
Don't just watch it, jump in with both feet.
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Old March 11, 2019, 01:46 PM   #32
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Just so y’all will be reassured…..

Here is how this trade started.

Since I am moving to FL and can’t take much of anything along, a lot of my stuff has to be either sold, given away, or abandoned. I had to liquidate an entire shop full of tools and equipment. This process started about three months ago and much of the stuff has been listed in either CL or eBay for that entire time. What remains is what nobody wants and what I can't take along.

I am moving in two weeks so I am in the short strokes.

A guy called me up and offered a trade for one of the pistol display cases I had made. He wanted to trade a Garland Cook knife. (Photo) I accepted and mentioned the other stuff I had to get rid of. We went back and forth and finally came to an agreement on the four firearms for tools which I had been listing for a total of 300.00.

So I gave up tools which after three months of listings, nobody wanted and he gave up some old guns that were worth about as much as the scrap metal. We are both probably secretly chuckling about it.

Once I examined the firearms, I quickly abandoned any hope of ever getting the shotgun to shootable condition. I knew I was looking at a relic/wall-hanger.

The Stevens was even more so since ammunition is no longer reasonably available. And, fixing the stock would be more expensive than the rifle would ever be worth. Ironically, the closest to shootable are the two junk revolvers.

Maybe I’ll trade the shotgun or the rifle for something at a gun show in Fort Myers.
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File Type: jpg Knife.jpg (126.9 KB, 22 views)
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Old March 11, 2019, 02:12 PM   #33
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Dang Doc, if I wasn't broke I'd try to talk you out of the shotgun and the Stevens.
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Old March 11, 2019, 04:21 PM   #34
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Unfortunately....

They are on the way to Naples.
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Old March 11, 2019, 08:21 PM   #35
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Not a problem Doc. Broke anyway lol
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Old March 12, 2019, 05:36 PM   #36
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Hawg

That is a disease that is going around.
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Old February 10, 2020, 04:56 PM   #37
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Started in on the shotgun

Got it apart after having to destroy three major screws. Made those today. I will post photos as the project moves forward.
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Old February 10, 2020, 07:21 PM   #38
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Look forward to seeing pictures!
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Old February 15, 2020, 01:50 AM   #39
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Thanks, TK.

I am making good progress on this shotgun. I hope you all are not disappointed with my approach to this shotgun.

I think the piece in the condition when I got it had no collector value. It was completely non-functional because:

1. The nipples and interior of the beach were rusted so bad that the fire channels were completely plugged. I could only get one of the nipples out.
2. The hammers would not remain at full cock. They stayed at half cock but even a minor jolt would knock them off of half cock.
3. One of the barrels appeared to be either loaded or plugged to about an inch forward of the breach.
4. Stock cracked all the way through
5. Missing ramrod
6. Additional cosmetic issues that just made the thing look terrible.
7. I am fairly certain this is a cheap original. Workmanship is okay but far from top of the line.
So my approach to the project is to renovate into a shootable shotgun, repair the wood issues, replace the nipples with new ones, remake the screws and missing parts, verify the barrels are good, and (the worst part) remove the old patina to make the piece look more functional.

As I said previously, I think this shotgun was made in about 1860 to 1890. It has a Belgian proof mark and I will check the images to see if the style of that mark will date it more precisely.

Apologize for no photos yet. This is going to be a lengthy presentation. I hope you all have the tolerance to stay with me.
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Old February 15, 2020, 07:27 AM   #40
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Here are some of the photos of the original

These photos provide an idea of the original patina.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Breach original.jpg (82.6 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg Fore stock fitting.jpg (106.7 KB, 17 views)
File Type: jpg Original breach.jpg (74.6 KB, 20 views)
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Old February 15, 2020, 07:29 AM   #41
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Proofs

Theses are the proof marks.

The main proof dates the piece before 1893.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Breach with proofs 2.jpg (92.7 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg Breach with proofs.jpg (92.2 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg Breach with proofs 3.jpg (84.1 KB, 15 views)
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Old February 17, 2020, 12:26 PM   #42
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Was able to get one of the nipples out. I found that the flame channel is pretty huge when it is cleared. Between an eigth and three sixteenths in dia.

Initially it was completely plugged. The breach of the left barrel was also fouled. About an inch of fouling (although I think it was not fouling) or mud (although it was pure black) or perhaps the remnants of a load of powder. No wad or anything else.

The nipple on the right barrel was so rusted and boogered up it would not come out. Had to be drilled but once I drilled through it, the nipple loosed enough to turn it out with an easy out.

Nipple are 7 mm by 1.0 pitch. The one good original took a number 10 cap. In that nipple the flame channel was open.

The shotgun appears to have been stored in an outside wood pile for about thirty years.

Left and right side of the stock in pretty banged up.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Breach nipple out.jpg (71.3 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg Stock left side.jpg (71.9 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg Stock right side.jpg (72.5 KB, 11 views)
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Old February 17, 2020, 12:37 PM   #43
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Stock

The stock was broken through about an in forward of the trigger.

I don't have a photo of the damage to the left side of the stock but thankfully both sides could be brought together with only minor cosmetic work.

I thought I might make some wood putty by mixing the sanding dust from the stock with wood glue.

First time I tried that. It make a very solid joint. Stronger than the original wood. Unfortunately the color of the putty is not a match for the wood in the stock.

I'll try to get a shot of that so you can see what I mean.

The shotgun never had the fittings over the wedge holes. So the wood around the wedge holes is in very rough shape. I will make some bezels to do over the holes to try to pretty up the sides of the arm.

When I got the shotgun, the wedge was missing, as was the ramrod
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Stock crack right.jpg (89.7 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg Wedge hole 1.jpg (59.9 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg Wedge hole 2.jpg (98.7 KB, 16 views)
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Old February 17, 2020, 09:33 PM   #44
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I'm sure it had wedge escutcheons at one time but after they were removed for whatever reason the stock could have been sanded. It looks like you can see the outline of one in your bottom pic. I also doubt it's been sitting in a wood pile for 30 years. I've got an old Parker that a man had hanging over his back door on a covered porch and it's in a lot worse shape that yours. When I took the barrels out of the stock the solder had rotted and the whole thing just fell apart. The stock is a lot worse than yours.
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Old February 18, 2020, 12:40 PM   #45
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Well....

Hawg,

If it had escutcheons before it has them again. I made a set from a piece of steel conduit

I think this thing would shoot. I made the nipples for it yesterday (Too lazy and cheap to buy a pair). It popped caps on both barrels. The flame channels are wide open.

Today, I deposited some metal on the breach hooks (or whatever the things are called that hold the barrels into the stock). It was very loose and the extra steel filed down made it a nice tight fit.

A previous owner did some work on the muzzles which resulted in about a five degree down angle. I trued that up as well.

The welding on the breach hooks went pretty well, so I am thinking that I will try the same technique on the right hammer. The skirt is splayed out and very worn.
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Old February 18, 2020, 02:21 PM   #46
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Some words on the barrel proof marks.

It is marked with the E over L.G over the star in an oval. Muzzle loading black powder before 1893 (Belgium).

It has the candlestick holder for black powder

It has the script E L optional provisional.

There is a star over a capital D on both barrels

The left barrel is marked 18 over capital P.

The right barrel is marked with a capital MC.

There are other marks I can't make out.

The bore at the muzzle measures .78.

I date the shotgun's manufacture sometime between 1852 and 1893.
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Old Yesterday, 03:17 PM   #47
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Photos of the finished piece.

Took this with sunlight only in just before dusk light.

I am happy with the way the wood came out.

It is sanded down to 220, then tung oil applied with a bare hand. Then steel wool and then another tung oil treatment.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Left side d.jpg (97.5 KB, 1 views)
File Type: jpg Left side e.jpg (89.3 KB, 1 views)
File Type: jpg Right side a.jpg (115.6 KB, 1 views)
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Old Yesterday, 03:22 PM   #48
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Nipples

Here are some shots of the nipples.

Cut the nipples from a hunk of grounding rod.

Cut in the shoulder.

Then threaded the nipple to 7mm by 1.0 mm pitch
Attached Images
File Type: jpg NIpples stock.jpg (76.6 KB, 1 views)
File Type: jpg Cutting the shoulder diameter.jpg (56.0 KB, 1 views)
File Type: jpg Nipple threading.jpg (86.6 KB, 1 views)
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Old Yesterday, 03:28 PM   #49
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Nipples process

More shots of the nipples.

I got the drill bit dimensions from the one original nipple that came out in one piece.

The nipple shoulder diameter was also taken from the original nipple as was the nipple end dimensions. Taper was derived by calculating the correct extreme end diameter for a number 10 cap.

Shoulder flats were cut to eye. I have no idea if they are close. They work with a nipple wrench so I guess they are Okay.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_1179.jpg (84.8 KB, 1 views)
File Type: jpg NIpple almost finished.jpg (53.1 KB, 1 views)
File Type: jpg NIpple cutting the shoulder.jpg (76.5 KB, 1 views)
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Old Yesterday, 03:33 PM   #50
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FInal installation

More nipple shots.

The nipples are not a precise match.

But they are close enough for my eye.

Both pop caps.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Two finished nipples.jpg (77.2 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg Nipples in place.jpg (75.4 KB, 1 views)
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