cam on 1861 navy

Buttonwood Bill · January 8, 2015, 07:50 PM

My Uberti 1861 navy wont go to halfcock properly. If I swap out hammers with my other piece it works fine. So I am pretty sure its the cam. Do I need another cam, or can I just drive the cam out slightly? Under close inspection the two cams look the same. Help?!

44 Dave · January 8, 2015, 08:32 PM

The cam trips the cylinder bolt. Do the cams look the same? Check the bolt end. Some cams are machined as part of the hammer. I have done a little fine tuning on a cam with a diamond Dremel tool.
Pictures may get you better advice.

Buttonwood Bill · January 8, 2015, 09:07 PM

Bolt looks good. Cams look the same. Cam looks like a different type metal. Gun with problem works fine when hammer swapped out. Gun without problem has same problem when hammer swapped out. About 1500 rounds fired through each. If cam is not part of hammer can I just tap it out a little to make it work? If I buy a cam will it be the right size and fit tight into hammer? Not sure how to enclose photos, will learn how soon. Thanks for the help.

denster · January 8, 2015, 11:05 PM

What do you mean exactly by not correctly going to half cock? The only thing the cam has to do with the revolver going to half cock is lowering the bolt so the cylinder can turn.
By the way the cam is a part of the hammer and can not be tapped out. Also it should not be filed or ground as it is case hardened and interfaces with the bolt which is a spring temper.

45 Dragoon · January 8, 2015, 11:48 PM

So, if I follow you correctly, each gun works fine unless it has the offending hammer. Have you compared hammer thicknesses?

Fwiw, just in the last few years the cam has been carved out of the hammer material.Older cams were separate and pressed in. You can file them flat (makes finding the center easier), drill hammer and install an old stock cam or, make one. If you make one, be sure to harden it before you install.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

44 Dave · January 9, 2015, 12:06 AM

Like Mike said, compare the hammer thickness. Mike has tricks to keep the hammer centered or shimmed one way or the other if needed. I have one old Pietta with the hammer screw shimmed and a centering pin through the hammer, all of this to keep the cam in the right place.

Fingers McGee · January 9, 2015, 12:12 AM

If it won't go to half cock, and the replacement hammer does, your half cock notch is broken on the offending hammer. You need a new hammer. Cam only affects the action of the bolt.

Now, if you are saying that when you try to cock the revolver, the cylinder will not move because the bolt is not dropping, then you may have a worn cam or a weak bolt leg.

denster · January 9, 2015, 12:58 AM

Several real possibilities suggested, but for a cogent on point answer we really need for you to describe exactly what is happening when you attempt to half cock either revolver with the offending hammer installed.

Gunfixr · January 9, 2015, 09:37 AM

As mentioned, there really isn't enough info here.
The simple answer is, just use the other hammer.
The long answer has questions in it.
Does the hammer move back to half cock, but won't stay there when released? If so, but full cock works properly, then the half cock notch in the hammer is most likely broken out.
Does the hammer stop, immediately after you start moving it back, and the cylinder doesn't turn? If so, and the cam looks good, something is amiss with the bolt. Due to tolerance differences, one cam might be slightly lower than the other, and the bolt leg is not slipping over on top of the cam of the problem hammer. If it worked before, and just started this, then the bolt leg on the hammer side has probably gotten bent down some, and you should replace and fit a new bolt.
A third option is the trigger nose has broken, but since the other hammer works properly, this isn't real likely.

Gunfixr · January 9, 2015, 09:39 AM

There are a few other possibilities that could cause the problem, but without the gun to look at, these are the most obvious.

Buttonwood Bill · January 9, 2015, 06:44 PM

Thank you all for the information. I learned quite a bit. I think it's hammer time. Who should I buy from? Are all hammers created equal? And what BP revolver should I buy next? The misses and I have a pair of Uberti 1861 Navys and want something else. We don't shoot competition, yet, and like the historically correct pieces. Also love these Colts. The look and balance are great. Also, any shooters in my area out there? We live in SW Florida. Everglades City.

denster · January 9, 2015, 10:48 PM

You will need a Uberti hammer for a belt pistol. The 1851, 1860 and 1861 all use the same hammer. Several places sell them and they are a bit pricey. One isn't any better than another.

James K · January 11, 2015, 03:05 PM

Check to make sure the sear portion of the trigger is entering the half cock notch all the way. If it doesn't, the half-cock (loading postition) won't work right. If the trigger sear portion is too large, as sometimes happens, remove metal from the FRONT of the sear so as not to cut through the hardening on the tip of the sear.

Jim

Gunfixr · January 12, 2015, 12:49 AM

For a uberti gun, get a uberti hammer. The Italian guns are not all made in the same factory, and are not all the same.

January 8, 2015, 07:50 PM	#1
Buttonwood Bill Junior Member Join Date: January 7, 2015 Location: Everglades City FL Posts: 6	cam on 1861 navy My Uberti 1861 navy wont go to halfcock properly. If I swap out hammers with my other piece it works fine. So I am pretty sure its the cam. Do I need another cam, or can I just drive the cam out slightly? Under close inspection the two cams look the same. Help?!

January 8, 2015, 09:07 PM	#3
Buttonwood Bill Junior Member Join Date: January 7, 2015 Location: Everglades City FL Posts: 6	cam on 1861 navy Bolt looks good. Cams look the same. Cam looks like a different type metal. Gun with problem works fine when hammer swapped out. Gun without problem has same problem when hammer swapped out. About 1500 rounds fired through each. If cam is not part of hammer can I just tap it out a little to make it work? If I buy a cam will it be the right size and fit tight into hammer? Not sure how to enclose photos, will learn how soon. Thanks for the help.

January 9, 2015, 12:12 AM	#7
Fingers McGee Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2008 Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks Posts: 2,113	If it won't go to half cock, and the replacement hammer does, your half cock notch is broken on the offending hammer. You need a new hammer. Cam only affects the action of the bolt. Now, if you are saying that when you try to cock the revolver, the cylinder will not move because the bolt is not dropping, then you may have a worn cam or a weak bolt leg. __________________ Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce

January 9, 2015, 06:44 PM	#11
Buttonwood Bill Junior Member Join Date: January 7, 2015 Location: Everglades City FL Posts: 6	1861 Nvay cam Thank you all for the information. I learned quite a bit. I think it's hammer time. Who should I buy from? Are all hammers created equal? And what BP revolver should I buy next? The misses and I have a pair of Uberti 1861 Navys and want something else. We don't shoot competition, yet, and like the historically correct pieces. Also love these Colts. The look and balance are great. Also, any shooters in my area out there? We live in SW Florida. Everglades City.

January 8, 2015, 08:32 PM	#2
44 Dave Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2013 Posts: 584	The cam trips the cylinder bolt. Do the cams look the same? Check the bolt end. Some cams are machined as part of the hammer. I have done a little fine tuning on a cam with a diamond Dremel tool. Pictures may get you better advice.

January 8, 2015, 11:05 PM	#4
denster Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 581	What do you mean exactly by not correctly going to half cock? The only thing the cam has to do with the revolver going to half cock is lowering the bolt so the cylinder can turn. By the way the cam is a part of the hammer and can not be tapped out. Also it should not be filed or ground as it is case hardened and interfaces with the bolt which is a spring temper.

January 8, 2015, 11:48 PM	#5
45 Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2013 Posts: 656	So, if I follow you correctly, each gun works fine unless it has the offending hammer. Have you compared hammer thicknesses? Fwiw, just in the last few years the cam has been carved out of the hammer material.Older cams were separate and pressed in. You can file them flat (makes finding the center easier), drill hammer and install an old stock cam or, make one. If you make one, be sure to harden it before you install. Mike www.goonsgunworks.com

January 9, 2015, 12:06 AM	#6
44 Dave Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2013 Posts: 584	Like Mike said, compare the hammer thickness. Mike has tricks to keep the hammer centered or shimmed one way or the other if needed. I have one old Pietta with the hammer screw shimmed and a centering pin through the hammer, all of this to keep the cam in the right place.

January 9, 2015, 12:58 AM	#8
denster Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 581	Several real possibilities suggested, but for a cogent on point answer we really need for you to describe exactly what is happening when you attempt to half cock either revolver with the offending hammer installed.

January 9, 2015, 09:37 AM	#9
Gunfixr Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2007 Location: East Coast, USA Posts: 360	As mentioned, there really isn't enough info here. The simple answer is, just use the other hammer. The long answer has questions in it. Does the hammer move back to half cock, but won't stay there when released? If so, but full cock works properly, then the half cock notch in the hammer is most likely broken out. Does the hammer stop, immediately after you start moving it back, and the cylinder doesn't turn? If so, and the cam looks good, something is amiss with the bolt. Due to tolerance differences, one cam might be slightly lower than the other, and the bolt leg is not slipping over on top of the cam of the problem hammer. If it worked before, and just started this, then the bolt leg on the hammer side has probably gotten bent down some, and you should replace and fit a new bolt. A third option is the trigger nose has broken, but since the other hammer works properly, this isn't real likely.

January 9, 2015, 09:39 AM	#10
Gunfixr Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2007 Location: East Coast, USA Posts: 360	There are a few other possibilities that could cause the problem, but without the gun to look at, these are the most obvious.

January 9, 2015, 10:48 PM	#12
denster Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 581	You will need a Uberti hammer for a belt pistol. The 1851, 1860 and 1861 all use the same hammer. Several places sell them and they are a bit pricey. One isn't any better than another.

January 11, 2015, 03:05 PM	#13
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Check to make sure the sear portion of the trigger is entering the half cock notch all the way. If it doesn't, the half-cock (loading postition) won't work right. If the trigger sear portion is too large, as sometimes happens, remove metal from the FRONT of the sear so as not to cut through the hardening on the tip of the sear. Jim

January 12, 2015, 12:49 AM	#14
Gunfixr Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2007 Location: East Coast, USA Posts: 360	For a uberti gun, get a uberti hammer. The Italian guns are not all made in the same factory, and are not all the same.