Border shuffle?

ZVP · January 24, 2015, 12:51 PM

Did oldtime right or left hand shooters carry their revolvers set-up for a strong side pull or carry both left and right holsters and use the Border shuffle?
I carry my Piettia Police strong side and my Piettia '51 crossdraw.
Most comfortable and not confusing when drawing.
ZVP

Hawg · January 24, 2015, 02:16 PM

Methinks the guys that carried two guns during peace times were few and far between.

T. O'Heir · January 24, 2015, 03:38 PM

Kind of suspect "The Border shuffle" is a Hollywood/19th Century dime novel/CAS/western novel invention.
I think Hawg is right about guys carrying 2 guns too. Firearms were relatively more expensive in 1880 than they are now. Not everybody carried a handgun or even owned one. Certainly not a Colt model anything.
Colts were very high priced. Average factory wage was around $1.34 a day in 1880, about $40 per month. A Colt SAA ran around $20.

bedbugbilly · January 24, 2015, 05:50 PM

Look at some of the old photos from the 1880s - 1890s - you'll see they were carried both ways - strong side or cross draw. But . . . realize that they were carried on "gun belts" not the fancy Hollywood versions that fast draw enthusiasts like to portray. Often times, the gun belts were of the "money belt" design. Sometimes they had loops for the pistol cartridges, sometimes a combination of loops for pistol and rifle bullets.

And remember also . . . not all working "cowboys" wore six-guns while they worked. They were often put in the saddle-bags if they had one. It's hard enough to do a cowboy's job without a gun hanging on you belt all the time.

John Chisum, a famous Texas cow-man is reported to have never carried a holstered handgun. When his men asked him why, his reply was . . . "You carry the guns. I'll carry the brains."

Think about it a little . . . if you were riding on horseback, which would be more convenient to pull if necessary? On your strong side which would require you to drop your hand and reach down and back or in a cross-draw position right up near your front and almost behind the saddle horn where all you had to do was drop your hand and pull? I'd opt for the cross-draw.

Another thing to also consider is that many "hand guns" in that time were "utility" tools to put meat on the table and/or protection. Not everyone had a holster. Pant's belts were not in common use but if the trousers were tight enough in the waist, it could be tucked in. Often times, if the individual was in a wagon or carriage, they often carried a "buggy rifle" or shotgun. Over the years, I have seen and looked at many muzzleloading "buggy guns" - side locks with a short barrel and also a number of short barreled "under hammers". And of course there were also a number of "pocket" size pistols easily carried in a coat pocket. My grandfather, who was born in 1867, carried a "British Bull Dog" while he was on the harness racing circuits with his horses during the late 1880s up through the very early 1900's. That era was a heyday for the "Saturday Night Specials" - named because folks often carried them when they went to town on Saturday night - the common night for shopping in rural America in those days when the work week was over and everyone went to town to get supplies.

aarondhgraham · January 24, 2015, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Kind of suspect "The Border shuffle" is a Hollywood/19th Century dime novel/CAS/western novel invention.

You say this as if it were a bad thing.

No my friend, you are correct,,,
But it's okay to theorize about this because it's fun.

When I played in SASS I wore two 1858 Remingtons,,,
One straight down on the right (strong) side,,,
The other was cross-draw left of center.

That worked very well at two pistol stages,,,
I would face square to the target while shooting my right hand gun first.

Before I holstered it I swiveled a bit to the right,,,
That automatically gave my crossdraw a downstage orientation.

Then as I holstered with my right hand,,,
I used my left hand to grab the top of the crossdraw gun,,,
My left hand (on top of the gun) literally handed it to the shooting hand.

I did it smoothly and was not concerned with speed,,,
It worked well even though it got me chuckled at quite a bit.

Could that be known as an Aarond Shuffle?

Aarond

.

Model12Win · January 24, 2015, 06:35 PM

Go to a local SASS or CAS shoot and see how they do it.

I've seen guys do it in a number of ways. I personally like a double cross draw as it allows a pull of either gun with either hand.

Snyper · January 24, 2015, 09:39 PM

I suspect modes of carry then were just as diverse as they are today, and were all determined by personal preference and what they happened to be doing at the time

January 24, 2015, 12:51 PM	#1
ZVP Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2009 Posts: 1,102	Border shuffle? Did oldtime right or left hand shooters carry their revolvers set-up for a strong side pull or carry both left and right holsters and use the Border shuffle? I carry my Piettia Police strong side and my Piettia '51 crossdraw. Most comfortable and not confusing when drawing. ZVP

January 24, 2015, 03:38 PM	#3
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Kind of suspect "The Border shuffle" is a Hollywood/19th Century dime novel/CAS/western novel invention. I think Hawg is right about guys carrying 2 guns too. Firearms were relatively more expensive in 1880 than they are now. Not everybody carried a handgun or even owned one. Certainly not a Colt model anything. Colts were very high priced. Average factory wage was around $1.34 a day in 1880, about $40 per month. A Colt SAA ran around $20. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

January 24, 2015, 05:50 PM	#4
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,287	Look at some of the old photos from the 1880s - 1890s - you'll see they were carried both ways - strong side or cross draw. But . . . realize that they were carried on "gun belts" not the fancy Hollywood versions that fast draw enthusiasts like to portray. Often times, the gun belts were of the "money belt" design. Sometimes they had loops for the pistol cartridges, sometimes a combination of loops for pistol and rifle bullets. And remember also . . . not all working "cowboys" wore six-guns while they worked. They were often put in the saddle-bags if they had one. It's hard enough to do a cowboy's job without a gun hanging on you belt all the time. John Chisum, a famous Texas cow-man is reported to have never carried a holstered handgun. When his men asked him why, his reply was . . . "You carry the guns. I'll carry the brains." Think about it a little . . . if you were riding on horseback, which would be more convenient to pull if necessary? On your strong side which would require you to drop your hand and reach down and back or in a cross-draw position right up near your front and almost behind the saddle horn where all you had to do was drop your hand and pull? I'd opt for the cross-draw. Another thing to also consider is that many "hand guns" in that time were "utility" tools to put meat on the table and/or protection. Not everyone had a holster. Pant's belts were not in common use but if the trousers were tight enough in the waist, it could be tucked in. Often times, if the individual was in a wagon or carriage, they often carried a "buggy rifle" or shotgun. Over the years, I have seen and looked at many muzzleloading "buggy guns" - side locks with a short barrel and also a number of short barreled "under hammers". And of course there were also a number of "pocket" size pistols easily carried in a coat pocket. My grandfather, who was born in 1867, carried a "British Bull Dog" while he was on the harness racing circuits with his horses during the late 1880s up through the very early 1900's. That era was a heyday for the "Saturday Night Specials" - named because folks often carried them when they went to town on Saturday night - the common night for shopping in rural America in those days when the work week was over and everyone went to town to get supplies. __________________ If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63

January 24, 2015, 09:39 PM	#7
Snyper Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2013 Location: Eastern NC Posts: 3,047	I suspect modes of carry then were just as diverse as they are today, and were all determined by personal preference and what they happened to be doing at the time __________________ One shot, one kill

January 24, 2015, 02:16 PM	#2
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	Methinks the guys that carried two guns during peace times were few and far between.

January 24, 2015, 06:35 PM	#6
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	Go to a local SASS or CAS shoot and see how they do it. I've seen guys do it in a number of ways. I personally like a double cross draw as it allows a pull of either gun with either hand.