The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: Semi-automatics

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old May 19, 2017, 08:34 PM   #1
Model12Win
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 20, 2012
Posts: 4,659
308 M1?

Anyone convert their Garand to 308? A lot cheaper than 30-06. I hear all it needs is a barrel swap and a spacer.
Model12Win is offline  
Old May 19, 2017, 09:14 PM   #2
Gunplummer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 11, 2010
Location: South East Pa.
Posts: 3,364
The Marines had a few when I was in. There was a sleeve in the chamber. Every once and a while the sleeve would come out with an empty case. Been a long time. I don't remember the feed set up anymore.
Gunplummer is offline  
Old May 19, 2017, 09:52 PM   #3
Cheapshooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 2, 2007
Location: Missouri
Posts: 6,921
I would never insult the character of an M1 Garand by "converting" it to 308 for the sake of cheaper ammo!!!
__________________
Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!
Cheapshooter is offline  
Old May 19, 2017, 10:43 PM   #4
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 17,162
It doesn't need a barrel swap, just a chamber insert. The Navy did it that way, for quite a few years.

and, yes, once in a while, the insert would come out during firing, but they kept using the system until they got actual m14s. There MAY be some M1s with chamber inserts still in service today, I don't know, only that the Navy isn't much concerned with rifles unless the caliber is measured in whole inches.

If ammo and gun tolerances "line up" right, you can fire .308 in a .30-06 chamber. The .308 case is slightly larger in diameter at the shoulder than the 06 case is at that same distance from the case head. The .308 wedges into the 06 chamber and forms a sufficient gas seal. (again, IF everything is within spec) the .308 case fireforms, leaving about no case neck, and the bullet strikes low, about 6" at 100yds.

With a slightly oversize chamber or undersize cases, this doesn't work well, so a chamber insert is used to make up for that. Never used one, personally, but have heard stories on both ends, where they sometimes, come out on firing, and other stories where the inserts get "pressure welded" into the chamber and NEVER come out. I see either one as equally possible.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old May 19, 2017, 11:12 PM   #5
Jim Watson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 14,109
Commercial inserts available here, if you want to cheap out.
http://www.mcace.com/adapters.HTM

There was a time when a .308 M1 was favored for service rifle matches, more accurate than either a .30-06 M1 or an M14. But I gather that is not the OP's interest.
Jim Watson is offline  
Old May 19, 2017, 11:16 PM   #6
Model12Win
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 20, 2012
Posts: 4,659
Thanks I really don't care if you wouldn't "insult the character" of your M1 because I see them as the tools they are and don't feel silly emotions towards inanimate objects. I don't really see how converting one to .308 is somehow wrong, considering the Navy did that to thousands of them.

So I did more reading, one can do a chamber sleeve or put a new barrel in, and add an optional spacer part just to keep any .30-06 rounds out of the action. Seems like a good way to run cheaper .308 and have the same overall experience. Just looking to see if anyone has ever actually done this here.
Model12Win is offline  
Old May 19, 2017, 11:17 PM   #7
James K
Staff
 
Join Date: March 17, 1999
Posts: 24,135
I used to have a bunch of 7.62 NATO (.308) cases that I fired in an un-modified M1 rifle just to show a know-it-all that the gun would not blow up if that was done accidentally. The cases look a bit like rimless .45-70. The rifle functioned perfectly.

Jim
__________________
Jim K
James K is offline  
Old May 20, 2017, 09:13 AM   #8
raimius
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 27, 2008
Posts: 1,720
CMP sells .308 M1s. The rebarrel them and put a spacer block in the magazine, so you can't accidentally load .30-06.
raimius is offline  
Old May 20, 2017, 09:17 AM   #9
Gunplummer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 11, 2010
Location: South East Pa.
Posts: 3,364
A little off track here, but am curious about the gas seal mentioned. I fired a 6.5 Arisaka in a 6.5x55 chamber. Not intentionally. Think about the length difference there. It had a very short neck and had formed to the chamber. I bet it had grown in length by over .200. The case was nice and clean when it came out. So, do you think the case has time to totally expand before the bullet is completely out of the case? It was an Arisaka action and the extractor held the case against the bolt face.
Gunplummer is offline  
Old May 20, 2017, 11:22 AM   #10
kraigwy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 16, 2008
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 10,822
Quote:
I used to have a bunch of 7.62 NATO (.308) cases that I fired in an un-modified M1 rifle just to show a know-it-all that the gun would not blow up if that was done accidentally. The cases look a bit like rimless .45-70. The rifle functioned perfectly
I've seen a bunch of those. I was running a sniper school for the NG and Reg Army. The National Guard had M1C/Ds, the Army M21s.

The guard guys kept grabbing the 308 ammo and running them through the Garands. Like you said, the brass looked like an in-belted 458 Win.

I had to put another ammo guy on orders to issue the right ammo to the right student.

They functioned but accuracy suffered a bit.

I have two Garands. One I got from the DCM a long time ago. The second I built at the CMPs Advanced Maint. Clinic. I debated making it in 308 but decided to stick to the '06 because its a Garand. The army's M1s were '06, the Navy used 308 Garands, and I'm Army so I had to have Army M1s.

When I ran the AK NG Marksmanship Unit, the AK Air Guard had Match M1s in 308.

I agree if you just want plinking ammo, the 308 would be cheaper, but I shoot mine in CMP GSM matches and load match ammo so there wouldn't be any cost savings. Plus I can use the same ammo in my M1903A2, A4 and M1917 witch I also shoot in the CMP Games.

I still have my M1A and Mode 70 Tgt if I want to shoot 308s.
__________________
Kraig Stuart
CPT USAR Ret
USAMU Sniper School Oct '78
Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071
kraigwy is offline  
Old May 20, 2017, 11:27 AM   #11
Jim Watson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 14,109
You have a 1903A2 as used to be an artillery subcaliber insert?
Neat.
Jim Watson is offline  
Old May 20, 2017, 11:56 AM   #12
T. O'Heir
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,225
"...chamber insert. The Navy..." And quit doing it because those inserts had a tendency to come out upon extraction.
"...brass looked like an in-belted(SIC) 458 Win..." More like a .444 Marlin.
"...The guard guys kept grabbing the 308 ammo..." And they weren't kicked off the range? RSO appeared to not be in control of his range.
"...my M1903A2..." Got the tank or arty piece to go with it? snicker.
Anyway, if you want a .308 M1, change the barrel and open the gas hole to .1". The mag well spacer is optional. It just extends the feed ramp a bit and may or may not be required. A hunk of neoprene or nylon glued in makes a good spacer.
__________________
Spelling and grammar count!
T. O'Heir is offline  
Old May 20, 2017, 12:11 PM   #13
AK103K
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 1, 2001
Posts: 9,589
I had an M1 in .308 that had been rebarreled and set up as a match rifle. The gun was an H&R that was all matching except for the barrel.

I suspect from the looks of the op rod, it was a host because of a barrel that had been screwed up using corrosive ammo and not cleaning it properly. Ive seen this on a couple of other M1's that had the issue. Other than some corrosion on the op rod, the rest of the rifle was basically pristine.

Mine always shot well, but I never really noticed any difference in accuracy between it and my M1's in 30-06.

I sold mine, but it took quite awhile, as most didnt seem to like the idea it was in .308.
__________________
"If the rule you followed brought you to this,
of what use was the rule?"

“The enemy is anybody who's going to get you killed, no matter which side he is on.” - Joseph Heller
AK103K is offline  
Old May 20, 2017, 08:51 PM   #14
1stmar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 21, 2012
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 2,096
I have a cmp special in 308. It shows signs of excellent accuracy. .5 now is not uncommon for 5 shot groups at 100. Trigger needs a bit of work. It's probably more 1 moa, tough to say my eyes are definetly a limitation. I removed the spacer block. Never had a feeding issue or the thought to put an 06 round in it. One of my favorite rifles for sure. Cmp uses Boyd's stocks and criterion barrels in their specials. Would definetly recommend.
1stmar is offline  
Old May 21, 2017, 06:07 AM   #15
Orlando
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2, 2009
Posts: 343
One of my favorite Garands is my Navy 7.62 rifle, and no it does not have a insert
If you want a 7.62 Garand, simply change the barrel

Orlando is offline  
Old May 21, 2017, 06:24 AM   #16
4EVERM-14
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 12, 2006
Location: Pennsy
Posts: 699
I earned the first leg points towards my Distinguished Badge with a .308 Garand. Built by a AMU armorer as a match rifle with a commercial .308 barrel and no spacer. Well balanced consistent performer with 168gr projectiles.
__________________
David
NRA Benefactor Member
Distinguished Rifleman #731
Presidents 100
4EVERM-14 is offline  
Old May 21, 2017, 06:43 AM   #17
wayne in boca
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 5, 2005
Posts: 329
Two of my Garands are barreled in 7.62 X 51.They are just a little more accurate than my Garands that wear original barrels in .30 US/.30-06.Maybe just because the barrels are newer than the military barrels but the difference is noticeable.Seem to recoil a bit softer too.Their character remains intact.
wayne in boca is offline  
Old May 21, 2017, 07:08 AM   #18
smee78
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 14, 2008
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 2,146
I always thought a 308 M1 would be fun too so I bought a M1A, works just fine.
__________________
We know exactly where one cow with Mad-cow-disease is located, among the millions and millions of cows in America, but we haven't got a clue where thousands of illegal immigrants and terrorists are
smee78 is offline  
Old May 21, 2017, 07:24 AM   #19
Screwball
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 16, 2012
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 420
I do think .308 Garands are nice... just I wouldn't get one.

Already have a Garand in .30-06. I have a N/M M1A, so I rather keep .308 in magazines and .30-06 in enbloc clips. I do have an Ishapore 2A1, so stripper clips can go either way... since I also have a M1903 (is a reproduction USMC sniper, so don't use clips anymore).

For me to get a .308 Garand... I'm at the same argument that I had with the M1A. The .308 isn't doing anything that a .30-06 can't... and if I'm not getting a removable magazine, why invest?

Again, that is completely my stance on it. I've heard good things about them (especially the Navy conversions), but if I got another Garand, it would be .30-06... and likely a Mini-G.
Screwball is online now  
Old May 21, 2017, 08:52 AM   #20
Reloadron
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 8, 2016
Location: Cleveland, Ohio Suburbs
Posts: 811
While I do not have a .308 Winchester or 7.62 NATO chambering I do have one I rebarreled in 7mm - 08 Remington:


I have one in the standard 30-06 Springfield chambering also and if I get a beater I have a .308 Winchester barrel I can put on it.

While I have read about chamber adapters I have never used one. They get some bad rap as to coming out with a spent cartridge. As far as doing the barrel swap all that is needed is a barrel chambered in .308 Winchester and the tools to do the swap. The most challenging part in my opinion was indexing the barrel. All of the needed tools are available from Brownells.

I like the .308 guns simply because I feel a reduction in the recoil. Not to say the M1 Garand in the 30-06 Springfield chambering is punishing but the .308 Winchester flavors are more pleasing to shoot. I like my 7mm-08 version as it is just plain fun and enjoyable to shoot.

Ron
Reloadron is offline  
Old May 21, 2017, 09:29 PM   #21
agtman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2001
Location: midwest
Posts: 1,479
Have many M1s in 30.06, and several in .308/7.62.

This .308 "Special" was built by CMP armorers on an HRA receiver, using in-spec USGI parts, a Criterion barrel, and new Dupage wood.

It's hands down the best shooter in my M1 collection.


Last edited by agtman; May 22, 2017 at 06:24 PM.
agtman is offline  
Old May 22, 2017, 04:05 PM   #22
jrothWA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 11, 2006
Posts: 2,185
Made my own 7.62NATO M1 Garand....

bought a well used M1 from dealer prior to Clinton forcing those guys out-of -business.

Bought "short-chambered" 7.63 barrel from Douglas, Inc.,
attended the National that year (1995) and the Gents @ the DCM van, pulled and installed the barrels, and rechambered to correct headspace, using Mil-Spec standards.

Bought a good birch M1 stock and followed the inletting specs found in Kunhansens' book. Refinish the stock and mounted the handguards as specified in the the book.

No Spaacer as I located a laser engraver that engraved a sight cover with "7.62 NATO".

WORKS NICELY! glad I did it.
jrothWA is offline  
Old May 22, 2017, 04:27 PM   #23
Reloadron
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 8, 2016
Location: Cleveland, Ohio Suburbs
Posts: 811
jwrothWA:
Quote:
No Spaacer as I located a laser engraver that engraved a sight cover with "7.62 NATO".
I like that. short of looking at the barrel on my 7mm-08 Remington there is no way to know the chambering. I have plenty of sight covers, I'll have one engraved. Obviously (and fortunately) the rifle won't chamber a 30-06 Springfield cartridge and actually won't even chamber a .308 Winchester but I would like some external marking of the caliber.

Ron
Reloadron is offline  
Old May 22, 2017, 06:32 PM   #24
agtman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2001
Location: midwest
Posts: 1,479
As far as that commonly seen .308/7.62 plastic "spacer" goes, ... it's not a feeding aid.

It's actually a simple safety device. It's meant to keep the cartridge-ignorant/newbie dimwits out there from trying their mightiest to jam an en-bloc clip of 30.06 rounds into a .308 chambering.

Stay focused my dudenals. It ain't rocket science.
agtman is offline  
Old May 26, 2017, 02:47 AM   #25
bamaranger
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 9, 2009
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 5,937
Tanker

Yes, I know, there was never actually a GI "tanker".

But there are these days, and even shorter M1's, Shuff's Mini-G being the most recent. Always thought that a short M1 would be well suited to the .308.
There was a time when I was really hot to get a tanker. Now, I doubt that I could resolve the front sight well enough on a shorty to shoot it satisfactorily.
bamaranger is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2016 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.09760 seconds with 10 queries