12 Gauge Pump as an All-Purpose "One Gun"???

[AlphaHunter88]

As I mentioned in another thread, I'm a lifetime rifle hunter. That said, I'm about to begin preparing for my first turkey season and I'm looking at a good, versatile pump. At first thought, it was to be primarily a turkey gun, but now I'm looking at the bigger picture. I'm a huge fan of the "simpler is better" philosophy. If I were to be limited to taking a single gun with me in a SHTF scenario, why not a 12 gauge pump? But this leaves questions. Of course I'd be much happier if the single configuration could do it all (ie: 28" smooth bore with a scope using foster slugs for deer and the appropriate shot/choke combo for turkey, water fowl, home defense, etc. THAT would be my dream set-up, but I'm concerned about the accuracy of rifled slugs in a smooth bore to ranges of +-120 yds. This concern is based solely on opinions of the "CF rifle" crowd that I hunt and shoot with. Is there a good premium slug that will group consistently within a 3" target at the aforementioned range? Or would I be better off to save a little extra and buy something like the Mossberg 500 field/deer combo with a rifled slug barrel to fill the deer hunting niche. Either way I'm intent on having a 12 gauge as a good all-in-one solution. I'm definitely not recoil sensitive, so that isn't much of a factor in the decision. All feedback is welcome and encouraged! Go!

[lefteye]

A 12 gauge pump IS an all purpose shotgun. I recommend a Remington 870, a pump shotgun with a great reputation. I have several of them for several different uses. Remington makes rifled slug barrels that dramatically improve accuracy, particularly with sabot slugs. My deer shotgun has a cantilever mount for my scope and a rifled barrel. Most shotgun deer hunters would be surprised, if not shocked, by the accuracy of the rifled barrel with a scope. My longest shot with my 870 deer gun was about 125 yards at a running 10 point that is now on my wall.

[Blindstitch]

The Mossberg 500 is a good option but if you want to scope it you should get the cantilever barrel so it doesn't have to be zeroed every time the barrel is switched.

[jmr40]

There can be a good argument for a 12 ga pump being the most versatile weapon. The wide variety of loads can cover a lot of bases and a shorter 22-26" barrel that takes interchangeable tubes is a good compromise.

But that said, in the situation you describe I'd still take a Ruger 10-22 and a suitable handgun. A box 25 shotshells is larger and heavier than a box of 500 22's. A shot from a 22 is much quieter. With an accurate rifle and optics I can take small game at longer ranges than I could with a shotgun and while illegal for deer hunting I have no doubts about a carefully placed 22 taking down a deer in a survival situation And it'd do a much better job of SD than most give it credit for.

[AlphaHunter88]

I like the 870 platform, as it is still my agency's duty shotgun. That being said, if I were to buy one I'd want an older model Wingmaster. I'm not too crazy about the newer 870s. I also really like the controls of the M500 a lot better (action release and safety positions.) I used to have a Maverick 88 field/security combo and I absolutely loved that gun. IMO there isn't a better gun on the market at that price point. I'm actually thinking of buying another as a base to customize, since most all 500 parts are interchangeable with the 88 (minus the trigger and safety mechanism.) Then in the future I can get a rifled barrel with the cantilevered scope mount and be set for any hunting scenario. What I'm looking for is someone who still hunts with rifled slugs in a smooth bore to get some feedback. Is it still a viable option for deer out to ranges of between 60-80 yds? Anyone still use them? I'm only asking because I may have to plan to hunt this way until I can later get a rifled barrel (if I do buy a Maverick) because my "gun money" comes few and far between.

[243winxb]

Mossberg 500 field/deer combo with a cantilever rifled slug barrel is a good choice.

[MarkCO]

The difference between a rifled barrel shooting the $2 to $4 a pop slugs vs. a smooth bore shooting 1 ounce slugs is HUGE. My Benelli M2, 100 yard groups, I get about 4-5" 3 shot groups. At 150 yards, about 12" 3 shot groups. Those are on good days BTW. When I put on the rifled barrel, I get under 2" at 100 yards and 4" at 200 yards, consistently. Or as good as an AR with irons and 55 ball.

As an all-purpose gun, sure, it will fill the niche. I shot my first bull elk with my 870 at 80 yards with a slug. Shot my first turkey, duck, goose, and chukar with the same shotgun. But with one barrel...that is a little tougher. I have a 21" rifle sighted smoothbore barrel, 24" vent rib barrel and 21" rifled barrel for my M2. If I had known I was going to end up the two 21" barrels, I would have bought it with the 26" barrel instead.

But, shells are heavy and bulky as compared to other choices in that "other" category.

[AlphaHunter88]

4"-5" groups, while terrible from a precision standpoint, would be acceptable for "minute of deer" accuracy, at least until I could get a rifled barrel (if I went with something like a M88.) Even if I went smooth bore to start with, I'd still get a hood-style scope mount for shooting slugs and dial in my point of aim.

[MarkCO]

Definitely.

The most accurate smooth bores I have shot have been the FNs. They are not cheap, but the P12 hangs right with rifled barrels out to 100. Thicker and chrome lined. The Winchester SXPs are sisters and might be one to consider. I have a few LE friends that use SXPs for their duty shotguns.

[osbornk]

I wanted an all purpose shotgun so I paid $298 for a field/deer combo Mossberg 500. It has 3 choke tubes and a 24" rifled slug barrel with rifle sights. I also found a Carlson turkey choke tube for $15.40. I think I am now prepared for anything I need regarding shotguns. I had two other shotguns I sold last week but I kept my old JC Higgins model 20 pump shotgun because it was made in 1947, the year I was born. I also have 22 rifles in various configurations to play with.

[GarandTd]

I'm in the m500/mav88 camp for sure. With what you're looking for, I think the m500 combo would be your one and done purchase. There are a couple different combos, but like 243winxb suggested, the one with the cantilevered rifled slug barrel and the accu-choke field barrel would be a good package. And like Osborne stated, it's not alot more $ than a Mav88.

[SHR970]

jmr40 wrote: A box 25 shotshells is larger and heavier than a box of 500 22's.

Not exactly true however not so far untrue as to make it a legitimate case in favor of the 22. The volumes of the two if packed in the smallest containers are close but the 22 definitely weighs more.

That said... 500 vs. 25.

Range advantage...22 LR hands down.

Game advantage. nominally the 12 gauge but the 22 can pretty much do all of the above too.

Accuracy. On the fly 12 gauge no contest. Relatively stationary... 22 no contest.

Ability to recover from a miss.... 500 vs. 25.

Having to deal with a few undesireables? 12 Gauge for pure visual value. 22 for pure tactical value.

If you are truely competent with a 22 you can do a lot more than the little round suggests.

[dahermit]

I have used pumps to kill ducks, and such. I have used 12 gauge pumps to kill about nine deer with #4 buckshot, and two with #1 buckshot in a sixteen gauge pump. The only complaint I have relative to pump action shotguns is that the ones I have used (Mossberg, Winchester and 870 Remington), the fore end/slides seem to rattle when one handles them, which could spook game (not ducks...they would not hear it), when using a blind. Therefore, I tend to favor autoloaders over pumps.

[lockedcj7]

If I could only have one gun, it would be a 12 ga. pump. I much prefer a 28" barrel with choke tubes for wing shooting so that would be my first choice. As time and money allowed, I would try to add barrels to improve performance in specific areas. There is a dizzying variety so it just depends on your priorities. Here would be my choices:

18" cyl barrel for home defense.
Full rifled cantilever scope mount (or scout mount) for deer.

[SHR970]

lockedcj7.. the OP included for a SHTF weapon. Include that in your choice and reeveluate. Are you so sure now?

[Tommyb78]

Just this year I shot a Heavy doe at about 75 yds. Remington 870 with 28" smoothbore. Remchoke im tube. Federal 2 3/4in 1oz slug simple bead sight. Put the bead right behind the shoulder and that's where it hit. When I opened up the old girl her heart and lungs were jelly. As long as you practice and find a slug that shoot accurately in your gun, these setups are good for deer. I will be using the same setup for turkey this spring. Just have to pattern some turkey loads. I will probably stick with 2 3/4" shells as I see no need to abuse myself anymore than that. Hope this helps you make a decision

[ShootistPRS]

There is no "one gun" for everything. I preach that one should own a 22 that will fire short, long and long rifle ammo, a 12 or 20 gauge pump shotgun, a pistol in a magnum cartridge so it can be used with the shorter versions of the same caliber, and a hunting rifle for longer ranges and large game. Those four guns are all you need to survive with but if you are going to be dealing with gangs and such you need guns to cover those areas specifically.
Start with the basics and build from there.

[Rifletom]

Posts #4, 6 and 16 pretty much sums it up. These are very good starting points.

[dahermit]

Not to hyjack this thread, but what advantage does a pump over an auto, save for a generaly cheaper price?

[ShootistPRS]

semi-auto shot guns are notoriously picky when it comes to feeding reliably. There are some that are better than others but pump shot guns rarely have feed problems - even with reloads.
That can be a big advantage in defensive situations. I have seen twice when a semi- auto shotgun jammed in three gun competition and if that had been a defensive situation it would have meant the difference between life and death. I have never seen any feed problems with pump guns.

[FITASC]

Not to hyjack this thread, but what advantage does a pump over an auto, save for a generaly cheaper price?

None, nada, zip, nil.

semi-auto shot guns are notoriously picky when it comes to feeding reliably.

TOTAL BS. Any shell that will have a feeding issue with a semi will also have that same issue with a pump. I shoot semis - my gas guns - one of which is a 3.5" gun - handle my 3/4oz reloads with ZERO malfs. If your reloads are hanging up - sounds more like crappy reloads.

A pump is a jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none. It can do a variety of tasks, but it isn't the best choice for anything. There are better choices for clays, for hunting, for HD/SD.

[NateKirk]

I've found that items that do everything tend to do them poorly...

That being said, unless you're hunting at ranges of 150 yards plus, an 870 will be able to do everything you need it to do and do it very well, like mine has been doing for years. You just have to get past the fact that you're using a boring ol' 870

Also rifled slugs are more accurate to longer ranges than people think. I personally can't, but my brother with perfect eyesight can bust clays with them at 100 yards all day long. Just my .02 cents

[osbornk]

Not to hyjack this thread, but what advantage does a pump over an auto, save for a generaly cheaper price?

A pump is the revolver of shotguns. It can be dirty, mistreated and abused but it generally goes bang every time you pull the trigger. A semi-auto is a semi-auto whether it is a pistol or a shotgun. They are very reliable if they are kept clean, properly adjusted and are treated reasonably well but they have failures if they are not.

I have more trust in a pump shotgun the same way I do a revolver.

[Hawg]

I like a pump shotgun. I don't care for semi autos.

[jmstr]

I have three types of shotguns: double-barrel, pump and semi.

My experiences are pretty limited. However, I would keep the pump over the other two if I could only have 1 shotgun.

In my experience a semi-auto shotgun, as a category, is not the best for a 1 shotgun, end of times, scenario.

My experience has shown that you have to spend the time to find the loads that the shotgun likes. I don't mean in terms of patterning, but in terms of loading and ejecting.

For example, my semi won't cycle low power loads under 1250fps and under 1oz on a reliable basis. It fails to eject them, and then tries to load. Jams are only fun on toast or in the garage.

In my experience, a pump can handle 2.5 dram loads all the way up to my 'monster' 3.5" magnum rounds. And all without doing anything more than wincing at the pain.

My semi can handle hotter rounds, after changing a gas bushing. But the low stuff jams it.


I know that others have VERY different results. I know that others have MUCH more extensive experience. I know others say 'well, just use the rounds the semi was designed for'.

However, if I can only have 1 shotgun, I want it to chamber/fire/extract/load every available round of the gauge and shell length that it was designed for.

A pump does that without hesitation. Semi's may have a narrow range of load options that they are reliable with.



Now, I also understand the 'right tool for the right job' approach, and there are better models for each application for a shotgun. That is why I have SxS, O/U, and Semi. Yet, a pump allows someone to accomplish almost any application.

Kind of like a Honda Accord can do almost anything that a person needs from a car [not a truck], like getting to work, taking 4 people to dinner/movies, bringing home groceries/mall shopping, long trips to national parks, fun drives in the mountains/along coast. However, there are car models that are better for every application. Most people can't afford multiple cars.

I know, shotguns are not cars. But, some people can't afford multiple shotguns either.

I am sure that more reliable semi-auto shotguns can be found than mine [S&W 1012, from Turkey, @ 2005], but I am also confident that they cost more than a $400 Rem 870 or Mossy 500.

Again, I'd keep my 870 over the others if I could only have one, but I'd miss the others.