Ammo Woes

[csocs_wolf]

Roughly 15 years ago, I reloaded 500 rds of 7mm Mag (Remington nickel plated brass, federal primers, Combined Technology ballistic tip bullets). After 15 years of on and off hunting, I still have a couple hundred left. They always worked GREAT for me, whether it be deer, antelope, or elk. Left a nice big wound tract. Everything dropped immediately on impact. Until 3 years ago.

I hit 3 animals 3 years ago, all well over 100 yards, except for one deer. I had a magic bullet incident where the bullet went in the sweet spot and came out the same side through the shoulder. Figured it was a fluke.

I hit 6 animals 2 years ago. 2 of those were 100 yards or less. On a deer, the bullet fragged / disintegrated. On an elk, it also disintegrated. Nothing through vital organs. It did stop it in it's tracks, hit it like a sludge hammer. Quit breathing and died there without taking a step.

Then last year I hit 4 animals. All were between 80 and 120 yards. Had bullet performance issues on nearly ALL of them.

So I'm wondering here.....can bullet performance decrease over time? Does powder or projectiles age? Or is it a strange coincidence that I'm just now getting the opportunity to hit animals closer in and am just now seeing results of the high velocity of the 7mm Mag with these bullets?

My AB2 loves the ammo. Great accuracy. Would hate to not get to use up what I have left and have to start buying premium bullets again. What do you think?

[tahunua001]

answers to your questions:

1. yes gun powder does age, however it gets less efficient, not moreso, you would be seeing lack of expansion and penetration issues rather than disintegration projectiles. projectiles do age, but it takes several decades before jackets flying off become a problem, 15 years would not be a sufficient amount of time.

2. could it be close up shots? yes, definitely. most projectiles are designed for terminal performance at velocities of between 1300 FPS and 2600 FPS, your 7 mag is probably pushing 3000+ FPS at 100 yards and closer, the bullets just may be having problems holding together, especially if they hit bone.

3. ballistic tips are generally designed to do a mixture of weight retention and disintegration. they are designed to create a large wound by shedding the jacket and some of the nose weight but most of the core is supposed to stay in one piece and continue on, creating a deep wound channel in addition to the imediate explosive tissue damage. they are similar to the hornady SST in that regard and are designed mostly for use on medium game, not so much for elk. better options for elk are bonded bullets or solid copper bullets which are designed to penetrate deep and hold their weight while losing little of their jackets. some such projectiles are hornady GMX and interbonds, Speer deep curls, anything made by barnes, swift sciroccos, and nosler Etips, accubonds, and partitions.

4. you may have also gotten a defective box of bullets when you were reloading, which is why you had great performance at first and now as you're shooting some of the defective ammo you are noticing different results.

given my limited experience, I would say that they are behaving exactly as would be expected given the velocities you are likely seeing and the type of game you are using them on, one thing you may try to test, grab a few random bullets from different boxes, shoot them into a 16 inch round piece of firewood at 100 yards. split the wood with an ax and see whether you are getting uniform penetration depths or if it's sporadic, also not expansion and weight retention of the projectiles as you retrieve it from the firewood. if it's all uniform then you're likely just seeing typical performance, otherwise you probably bought a defective box of bullets and loaded it up without knowing it.

[csocs_wolf]

Thanks for your response. Lot of information here.

Was just looking at Partitions or Accubonds. So expensive.

I reloaded 50 core-lokt's at the same time I did the CT BT's. Maybe I'll give those a try this season, before I have to take out a second mortgage to buy more. Just stinks I can't really see how they're working in a paper target. I'll definitely try out your firewood test with both bullets.

[csocs_wolf]

I bought a Tikka T3 in .308 this year for my boy. Bought several boxes of Accubond for it. So I'll be able to see how those do this season compared to my old reloads.

[Mobuck]

1. I wouldn't consider CTBT bullets to be a good choice for elk when fired from a 7mm mag.

2. It IS possible you're seeing some velocity fluctuation after the 15 years but I haven't seen this happen--ammo storage conditions would impact this.

3. Wet newspaper will give you a better comparison than firewood(which in itself is highly variable consistency). Either way, you won't gain much by shooting these materials under 200+ yards as the BT's will simply disintegrate.

4. I haven't had good results with Accubond bullets on deer sized game(257 Wby factory load w/110 AB). Very narrow wound channel with excessive penetration--zips through like a FMJ.

[Dufus]

The bullet is not the piece of the pie that you want to cheap out on. After all, it is the component that gives the end result of your hunt.

[tahunua001]

I didn't suggest the wood as an accurate test of penetration and expansion but it does do a good job of testing uniformity between loads and tests whether bullets are yawing/tumbling. unless you hit a knot, the bullet should perform pretty close to the way it was intended, without having to deal with cleaning up 40 pounds of wet newspaper when you're done.

[Pathfinder45]

you could switch to Nosler Partition bullets for hunting, work up an accurate load and load up a few boxes of ammo just for hunting and to re-check your zero before the hunt. Meanwhile, practice with cheaper bullets.

[Rifletom]

Pathfinder45 got there first. Nosler Partition.

[TimSr]

Was just looking at Partitions or Accubonds. So expensive.

With your previous loads you've been shooting under a box and a half per year, and your worried about bullet cost for an elk hunt? Load some up, check sighting, and set the rest aside for hunting, and practice with the stuff that shatters on impact!

[csocs_wolf]

I'm not worried about the cost of a couple boxes. My initial thought was to buy the bullets and reload the 300 or so I've expended. You're right, that shooting this at paper and trying out Partitions or something bonded on my next hunt would be a smarter route to take.

[T. O'Heir]

"...can bullet performance decrease over time?..." No. Powder, maybe, if the ammo has been stored improperly, but the bullet is a hunk of inanimate metal. Metal doesn't go bad unless it gets wet. Even then it's ferrous metals only that rust. Copper will tarnish with age, but doesn't deteriorate. Lead just turns grey.
No need for over priced premium bullets. Ain't nothing better than a Cor-Lokt.
If most of your shot are at or under 100, lose the Magnum. Mind you, there is no game in North America that requires a magnum of any kind to kill. However, if you're not practicing with the thing regularly, it's more likely your 15 year older shoulder is complaining. Shooting skills do deteriorate if you don't practice.

[csocs_wolf]

I live in WY. And while recently I've been lucky enough to have a ton of close-in shots, that isn't the norm. I've really enjoyed the long flat trajectory of the 7 Mag combined with those CTBT bullets to take antelope at 400+ in the plains. I obviously can't switch out bullets in the field because something pops up too close. Need something that can perform at 5-600.

While I am definitely getting older, my aim and shot placement has not yet waivered. And during the adrenaline of the hunt, my shoulder doesn't feel a thing. At the range is a different story. That's why God made sissy pads.

[musher]

projectiles do age, but it takes several decades before jackets flying off become a problem