The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > The Harley Nolden Memorial Institute for Firearms Research

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old September 24, 2021, 05:12 PM   #1
LawrenceN
Junior Member
 
Join Date: September 24, 2021
Posts: 8
S&W DA .44 Russian Mystery Stamps

First off, greetings all from Ontario, Canada. I've come into possession of a pretty straightforward S&W DA with a 5" barrel. While cleaning the thing, I noticed two odd stampings on the barrel. From the pics, you'll note that these weren't applied at a factory but obviously hand stamped. I've put a request for any information about them on several forums including the S&W forum. I did find out from the serial number that it came off the line 30 Oct. 1890. It's in superior condition and mechanically excellent and I'm tickled pink to have it. I wasn't sure whether to post this here or in the Curio & Relic forum. These stamps, however, are a head-scratcher. I'm wondering if the "SMI" had a double struck "I" as it overlapped the "M". Pure speculation, but might the "MI" letters stand for "Military Institute"? As to the "C.T.G", is it an abbreviation for "cartridge" and if so, why the capital letters and periods. Might it be an acronym? To forestall any question regarding calibre, I've double checked and it is indeed in .44 Russian. So! Any feedback or input would be most welcome. Thank you.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSCN2560.JPG (266.5 KB, 124 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN2558 - Copy.JPG (49.6 KB, 111 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN2557 - Copy.JPG (55.5 KB, 108 views)
LawrenceN is offline  
Old September 25, 2021, 07:37 PM   #2
105kw
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 30, 2017
Location: Columbia Basin Washington
Posts: 407
To start out, I am not an expert on Top Break S&Ws.
The cartridge marking is odd, the US Army never adopted the 44 Russian as a service cartridge. The only other similar marking was on a Spanish copy of an N frame Hand Ejector.
A lot of S&W 44 Top breaks went to Mexico, and Central and South America for Police or Military organizations.
Try the S&W Collectors Association.
Post what you find out please.
Welcome to the Firing Line.
105kw is offline  
Old September 25, 2021, 09:11 PM   #3
LawrenceN
Junior Member
 
Join Date: September 24, 2021
Posts: 8
Thank you for the welcome

I've posted this on the S&W Collectors Forum. Research can be frustrating and still fascinating. Thus far, I've not had any solid information that can either clarify the stamps or point me in a direction for further research. Given the number of clubs and groups that came and went over these many years, it may be a futile endeavour, but I'll keep my fingers crossed. Should something of note come to my attention, for sure I'll post it here to share the knowledge.
LawrenceN is offline  
Old September 26, 2021, 11:54 AM   #4
FrankenMauser
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2008
Location: In the valley above the plain
Posts: 13,392
Feels like fuddery or bad import marks.

Interesting, but does not seem to be more than a one-off, and possibly done by Bubba at his workbench.
Beer on bench.
Gun on bench.
Stamps on bench.
"Hell yeah!"


When that was produced, the only notable SMI was an Italian small arms ammunition manufacturer. So that is of little help. And if it had been stamped for *that* SMI, they would have included their signatory star.
__________________
Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.
FrankenMauser is offline  
Old September 26, 2021, 12:23 PM   #5
LawrenceN
Junior Member
 
Join Date: September 24, 2021
Posts: 8
It may be, but speculation is all I have at this time, pending someone who knows the origin or meaning of the stamps. I have a feeling that it may have been a military academy, or some form of military shooting club or training group. C.T.G., perhaps Cadet Training Group? Again, it's only speculation.

Last edited by LawrenceN; September 26, 2021 at 01:29 PM.
LawrenceN is offline  
Old September 26, 2021, 09:28 PM   #6
FrankenMauser
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2008
Location: In the valley above the plain
Posts: 13,392
I posted pictures to a group, to see what they think.
No one seems to know what it is, but I'll let you know if something comes up.
__________________
Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.
FrankenMauser is offline  
Old September 26, 2021, 11:27 PM   #7
105kw
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 30, 2017
Location: Columbia Basin Washington
Posts: 407
Ctg is a abbreviation of cartridge, S&W used it as well as other manufacturers.
105kw is offline  
Old September 26, 2021, 11:41 PM   #8
Jim Watson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 18,453
But that is not a S&W stamp.
Jim Watson is offline  
Old September 27, 2021, 04:41 AM   #9
LawrenceN
Junior Member
 
Join Date: September 24, 2021
Posts: 8
As I noted in my OP, normally I see cartridge abbreviated as "ctg.". The fact that it's in Capital letters and with a period after each letter would lead me to speculate that it's an acronym for something. No one on the S&W forum has been able to come up with a suggestion either. Without question, the stamps were applied by some sort of club or organization post production. It's a real head-scratcher. If I ever find out the origin of the stamps it may or may not add value to the pistol, but for me, it's more solving a mystery.
LawrenceN is offline  
Old September 27, 2021, 10:12 AM   #10
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 41,367
You might want to spend the money on a research letter from Smith & Wesson. Depending on the records for the gun they can often give you information on where it was shipped originally - i.e., the wholesaler or even the individual if it was purchased direct from the factory.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old September 27, 2021, 07:09 PM   #11
LawrenceN
Junior Member
 
Join Date: September 24, 2021
Posts: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Irwin View Post
You might want to spend the money on a research letter from Smith & Wesson. Depending on the records for the gun they can often give you information on where it was shipped originally - i.e., the wholesaler or even the individual if it was purchased direct from the factory.
Thank you for the suggestion. That will be one avenue to explore. Mind you, it would only bear fruit if the pistols were part of an order from S&W. If they were purchased through a normal everyday retailer, I'd probably be snookered. Still, I'll not shut myself away from any potentially viable avenue of research.
LawrenceN is offline  
Old December 7, 2021, 06:38 PM   #12
Unclenick
Staff
 
Join Date: March 4, 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 21,013
I took a closer look at the stamps. It appears to me that the double "I" may actually be a Roman numeral IV with the V being very narrow. So it might be "Service Model IV", or some such. The much smaller E1 or E7 at the bottom, I have no idea about.

The C.T.G might be assembler or armory inspector initials, but they might mean Cadet or Cavalry Training Gun or Group or some other such thing. It might also be the two periods are just decorative spacers for emphasis, and it means "Cartridge" as opposed to cap and ball. I just don't know.

If S&W tells you anything useful, it would be good to know.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg S&W 44 Russian.jpg (244.8 KB, 145 views)
__________________
Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member
CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor
NRA Certified Rifle Instructor
NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle
Unclenick is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.04412 seconds with 11 queries