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Old November 17, 2018, 08:04 PM   #1
Mobuck
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pistol with shoulder stock

Is it "AOW"?
The reason for asking, I just had an epiphany of firearms interest. A rimfire pistol with a shoulder stock with an attachment that fits into the mag well, is retained by the mag catch, and includes an integral 5 shot magazine. The pistol functions as designed with standard mags but instantly turns into whatever a shoulder stocked pistol would be. Not much design needed-just copy the top 1/2 of a factory mag.
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Old November 17, 2018, 08:07 PM   #2
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A pistol with a shoulder stock is a rifle. If it has a barrel length of 16" or more then it's just a regular Title 1 rifle. If it has a barrel less than 16" then it's a Title II short barrel rifle.
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Old November 18, 2018, 07:48 PM   #3
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The barrel would be 4-6" and overall length with the stock attached probably around 18"
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Old November 18, 2018, 09:47 PM   #4
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Theo is correct.

Attach a shoulder stock to a pistol and it becomes a Rifle. According to BATFE definitions (paraphrased), a pistol is fired from the hand, a rifle is fired from the shoulder. A shoulder fired firearm with a rifled barrel less then 16” is a SBR.
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Old November 18, 2018, 11:20 PM   #5
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The barrel would be 4-6" and overall length with the stock attached probably around 18"
Yep that would be a bad idea. Those folks who interpret the NFA laws have a tendency to think that anyone who possesses a long-arm with a barrel of even slightly less than 16 inches to be on the same level as a violent antisocial offender. Doesn't matter if it is accidental or intentional. To them, it is "guilty until proven innocent".

It's a good thing that you sought advice from here before you embarked on your project.
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Old November 19, 2018, 03:40 AM   #6
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Mobuck make it an armbrace and you should be ok
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Old November 19, 2018, 07:56 AM   #7
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I thought there were some "special regs" applied to pistols with shoulder stocks(Hi-powers, Bergmans, Mausers)?
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Old November 19, 2018, 07:58 AM   #8
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There are a few collectible exceptions; some of the Lugers, etc.
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Old November 19, 2018, 08:40 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Mobuck View Post
I thought there were some "special regs" applied to pistols with shoulder stocks(Hi-powers, Bergmans, Mausers)?
Yes, but that doesn't have anything to do with the fact that those are pistols with shoulder stocks, it's simply because they're antiques that are classified as Curio and Relic firearms and are therefore exempt from the NFA short barrel rifle rules.
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Old November 19, 2018, 12:23 PM   #10
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it's simply because they're antiques that are classified as Curio and Relic firearms and are therefore exempt from the NFA short barrel rifle rules.
I need to point out that the current BATF "interpretation" requires that Curio & Relic pistol to use an original stock. For decades the rule was no stocked pistols, period! (other than as registered short barrel rifles), then they said C&R pistols with stocks were ok. And we went "yay!"

Then, later they changed their minds yet again, and said C&R pistol with stock ok ONLY if stock is original mfg. Meaning period construction current with the C&R pistol. Not a reproduction. Trouble is, with most if not all the "period" stocks, there are no serial numbers, and often no markings of any kind, so, 'prove" its original? how?

Had a Broomhandle Mauser. legal pistol. Couldn't have the stock/holster, owning both without registration would have been a crime. Then they changed the rules. Now, its ok, NFA registration no longer required. Got a nice stock/holster. Probably (almost certainly a repro) but all good.

THEN they changed their minds, AGAIN, and since there's no way to tell, FOR CERTAIN that the stock was made in the 20s and not the 70s guess what? get rid of the stock, or register the combo as an SBR (again!)

I got rid of the stock. And its a moot point now, as the pistol has been passed on to another collector. Still the lesson is clear. They CAN and DO change what is, and isn't legal.

This is where I find amusement with all the people giggling and dancing about how their "pistol braces" are legal and not "stocks". Today they are.
Tomorrow?? who knows? Not even the ATF...

Enjoy them while you can, guys, it may not (and probably won't) last...
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Old November 19, 2018, 08:48 PM   #11
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That must have been what I was thinking of. I remembered some sort of "it is but it isn't" back and forth pertaining to the older stuff.
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Old February 24, 2019, 11:24 AM   #12
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Arm brace it and don't look back!

Life's too short waiting for Form 1s...

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Old March 17, 2019, 10:07 PM   #13
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Someone was listening. I saw an ad today for a "clamp on" fore arm brace for a GLOCK.
I hope the ones for a Ruger 22/45 will be out soon.
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Old March 18, 2019, 02:58 PM   #14
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This is where I find amusement with all the people giggling and dancing about how their "pistol braces" are legal and not "stocks". Today they are.
Tomorrow?? who knows? Not even the ATF...
Any law or interpretation can be changed in the future, not just those involving arm braces.
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Old March 19, 2019, 12:34 PM   #15
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Any law or interpretation can be changed in the future, not just those involving arm braces.
This is certainly true. Changing the law requires an act of Congress. Changing the interpretation does not, and my point was that the ATF has a history of repeatedly changing their interpretation of what is, and isn't legal, and what does, and doesn't require Federal licensing where certain items are concerned.
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