The effects of campus carry laws

Glenn E. Meyer · February 26, 2016, 11:06 AM

These are a set of stories about how campus carry is upsetting the world of higher education.

Some just boggle the mind with their misinterpretations and fears:

From the world of campus carry!

Campus carry (which didn't exist) used as excuse for Prof. threatening violence to a reporter:

http://chronicle.com/article/10-Reve...ampaignId=2549

Campus Carry leads to vigilante justice and will stifle in class discussion:

You can access the whole PPT here: http://fs.uh.edu/documents/events/Ca...2816132703.ppt

Dean flees to Pennsylvania from TX:

http://chronicle.com/blogs/ticker/te...#disqus_thread

spacecoast · February 26, 2016, 02:06 PM

Some small-minded (yet so-called "intellectual") people just can't wrap their minds around the vast majority of the population being able to responsibly carry a concealed weapon. Many of these "intellectuals" happen to be concentrated on our college campuses.

Many of these people tend to promote uninhibited and irresponsible behavior, and practice it themselves. Maybe that's why they are not willing to trust that others could be more mature than they are.

Their talking points are laughable -

Quote:

Excellent: “Most parents don't want their underage children to attend a gun-enabled campus”
Excellent: “The MILITARY doesn't allow guns in barracks and classrooms (outside of weapons training), why should there be guns in dorms and classrooms?”
Excellent: “Vigilante Justice has no place in a University”.
Too obscure: “John Wayne was on the side of James Stewart, not Lee Marvin in The Man Who Shot Liberty Valence”.

They couldn't even spell Valance correctly.

Hopefully when the sky doesn't fall in Texas it will prompt Florida and other states to open their campuses as well.

rickyrick · February 26, 2016, 02:37 PM

The thought process that paints the picture that every gun owner (carriers) is out for some action and to enact vigilante justice makes me laugh. My entire purpose for carrying a gun is to have it as one possible means to protect me and (more importantly) any family member that may be in my company. I do not do it for society. Sounds selfish, but that's the facts.

No one can deny me the right to protect myself or my family. That is the natural right that any living creature on this planet has. It's the most basic of rights that, I will not relinquish to any other entity.

I feel that people that don't think we can exercise our rights responsibly are only projecting themselves onto others.

DaleA · February 26, 2016, 02:41 PM

It makes me appreciate the following quote which has been used here several times before.

Quote:

"I don't mind it when stupid people say stupid things. Stupid people should be encouraged to say stupid things, that way we always know who the stupid people are." ~ Ted Nugent

K_Mac · February 26, 2016, 03:42 PM

Bringing concealed carry into the discussion was just one more way for former assistant professor Click to try to rationalize and justify the behavior that led to her firing. She was the one advocating violence to prevent what she believed to be unfavorable coverage of protestors. It was a simple straw man argument that had nothing to do with what happened, but for those with an anti-gun agenda the incident meets all the requirements to support their case.

carguychris · February 26, 2016, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K_Mac

Bringing concealed carry into the discussion was just one more way for former assistant professor Click to try to rationalize and justify the behavior that led to her firing. She was the one advocating violence to prevent what she believed to be unfavorable coverage of protestors.

Agreed, and I think the following excerpt points out her hypocrisy...

Quote:

The professor’s call for "some muscle" to help her remove Mr. Schierbecker from the protesters’ encampment was considered her gravest sin... she did tell investigators that it had been "protocol," based on her observations, to defuse heated situations by summoning large men.

In other words: it's not OK to have weapons, but it's perfectly OK to abuse one's position of authority to physically intimidate others if the end result is morally justifiable, to you.

Wait, come to think about it, doesn't the possibility of physically intimidating others depend on the intended subjects of intimidation being powerless?

Perhaps one of the reasons why private citizens choose to carry weapons is to avert being intimidated by ~~gangsters~~ authority figures like her?

The depth of hypocrisy and elitism that underlies her arguments boggles the mind.

kilimanjaro · February 26, 2016, 05:35 PM

The Dean of Architecture is lying about leaving Texas due to campus carry, no way around it. Colleges take months to vet and hire new upper level staff, CCW on campus is new in Texas.

Melissa Click was lying about Tim Tai being armed, no way around that, either. Her 'fears' were entirely false and made up only after she got into hot water about her bullying. Either that, or she was deliberately putting her fellow demonstrators at risk when she tried to instigate a confrontation.

Interesting how patently lying about one's actions seems to be acceptable behavior.

JimPage · February 26, 2016, 07:50 PM

Anyone with half a brain who saw the tape of her hysterical call for muscle could see what she was doing. All else is the big lie from her trying to get out of taking responsibility for her action.

adamBomb · February 26, 2016, 09:35 PM

I shoot with several faculty members at my local college who are professors. They are all for ccw on campus. What you are seeing here is a few who are very vocal about this issue. Its not everyone. They say that many of faculty against this are just not well informed on the issue. best thing we can do is make them informed.

kilimanjaro · February 26, 2016, 10:18 PM

I will agree that the only thing dumber than a teenager is a college kid, but I have yet to see a CCW holder of any age play stupid games with a weapon.

Read in the news of maybe a dozen incidents nationally in 30 years involving CCW foulups. I'm not the least concerned about the bloodbath hyperbole.

Shadow72 · February 27, 2016, 02:06 AM

From what I have seen, Rice & Baylor have opted out, which as private schools, the law allows. University of Texas & to a lesser extend University of Houston seem to be tying themselves into knots over how to comply with the new campus carry. Major conflict seems to be wheter firearms are going to be allowed in campus dorms. Law seems to be written to allow firearms in dorms and UT seems to think there is a loophole to not allow fireams in dorms. I believe that the Texas AG has warned UT that it's dorm plan isn't acceptable. The whole thing is going to end up in court before it's settled.

2damnold4this · February 29, 2016, 06:31 PM

Interesting link on the UT Austin working group's recommendations.

From the link it seems like many of the concerns are unfounded:

What we can say is that we have found little evidence of campus violence that can be directly linked to campus carry, and none that involves an intentional shooting. Everytown for Gun Safety Support Fund (EGSSF), which represents itself as “an independent, non-partisan 501(c)(3) organization dedicated to understanding and reducing gun violence in America,” tracks school shootings that have occurred since the Sandy Hook elementary school shooting in December 2012.17 As of December 3, 2015, it listed 69 college or university shootings. Five of these occurred in states that had campus carry laws in place at the time of the shooting.18Two were on Wisconsin campuses, both of which prohibit concealed handgun carry in buildings. One is the recent tragedy at Umpqua Community College. As mentioned above, although Oregon is a campus-carry state, Umpqua CC prohibited students from carrying firearms in college buildings, and we are unaware of any mention that the shooter there possessed a license to carry.
The other two shootings listed by EGSSF took place in Utah and Idaho; both involved accidental discharges.19We are also aware of two other accidental discharge incidents – one each in Colorado and Utah – that predate Sandy Hook and so are not listed by EGSSF.20Of these four accidental discharge incidents, two involved a license holder who was openly displaying a handgun to another person,21 and the other two involved license holders who were carrying their handguns unholstered in their pants pocket.22
Both at the public forum and in online comments, some respondents claimed that the introduction of campus carry in other states has caused an increase in the rate of sexual assault on campus. We have examined this and find that the evidence does not in any way support the claim of a causal link between campus carry and an increased rate of sexual assault.23 This is not to say that such a link may not exist. But it has not been demonstrated.
The same is true regarding suicide rates. We found no evidence that campus carry has caused an increase in suicide rates on campuses in other states.24 Again, this is not to say that such a link may not exist. But it has not been demonstrated.

February 26, 2016, 11:06 AM	#1
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	The effects of campus carry laws These are a set of stories about how campus carry is upsetting the world of higher education. Some just boggle the mind with their misinterpretations and fears: From the world of campus carry! Campus carry (which didn't exist) used as excuse for Prof. threatening violence to a reporter: http://chronicle.com/article/10-Reve...ampaignId=2549 Campus Carry leads to vigilante justice and will stifle in class discussion: You can access the whole PPT here: http://fs.uh.edu/documents/events/Ca...2816132703.ppt Dean flees to Pennsylvania from TX: http://chronicle.com/blogs/ticker/te...#disqus_thread __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

February 26, 2016, 02:37 PM	#3
rickyrick Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Posts: 8,237	The thought process that paints the picture that every gun owner (carriers) is out for some action and to enact vigilante justice makes me laugh. My entire purpose for carrying a gun is to have it as one possible means to protect me and (more importantly) any family member that may be in my company. I do not do it for society. Sounds selfish, but that's the facts. No one can deny me the right to protect myself or my family. That is the natural right that any living creature on this planet has. It's the most basic of rights that, I will not relinquish to any other entity. I feel that people that don't think we can exercise our rights responsibly are only projecting themselves onto others. __________________ Woohoo, I’m back In Texas!!!

February 26, 2016, 03:42 PM	#5
K_Mac Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2010 Posts: 1,850	Bringing concealed carry into the discussion was just one more way for former assistant professor Click to try to rationalize and justify the behavior that led to her firing. She was the one advocating violence to prevent what she believed to be unfavorable coverage of protestors. It was a simple straw man argument that had nothing to do with what happened, but for those with an anti-gun agenda the incident meets all the requirements to support their case. __________________ "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Benjamin Franklin

February 26, 2016, 07:50 PM	#8
JimPage Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2010 Location: Rome, NY Posts: 941	Anyone with half a brain who saw the tape of her hysterical call for muscle could see what she was doing. All else is the big lie from her trying to get out of taking responsibility for her action. __________________ Jim Page Cogito, ergo armatum sum

February 26, 2016, 05:35 PM	#7
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	The Dean of Architecture is lying about leaving Texas due to campus carry, no way around it. Colleges take months to vet and hire new upper level staff, CCW on campus is new in Texas. Melissa Click was lying about Tim Tai being armed, no way around that, either. Her 'fears' were entirely false and made up only after she got into hot water about her bullying. Either that, or she was deliberately putting her fellow demonstrators at risk when she tried to instigate a confrontation. Interesting how patently lying about one's actions seems to be acceptable behavior.

February 26, 2016, 09:35 PM	#9
adamBomb Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2015 Location: coastal NC Posts: 645	I shoot with several faculty members at my local college who are professors. They are all for ccw on campus. What you are seeing here is a few who are very vocal about this issue. Its not everyone. They say that many of faculty against this are just not well informed on the issue. best thing we can do is make them informed.

February 26, 2016, 10:18 PM	#10
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	I will agree that the only thing dumber than a teenager is a college kid, but I have yet to see a CCW holder of any age play stupid games with a weapon. Read in the news of maybe a dozen incidents nationally in 30 years involving CCW foulups. I'm not the least concerned about the bloodbath hyperbole.

February 27, 2016, 02:06 AM	#11
Shadow72 Member Join Date: October 27, 2015 Location: Tejas Republic Posts: 70	From what I have seen, Rice & Baylor have opted out, which as private schools, the law allows. University of Texas & to a lesser extend University of Houston seem to be tying themselves into knots over how to comply with the new campus carry. Major conflict seems to be wheter firearms are going to be allowed in campus dorms. Law seems to be written to allow firearms in dorms and UT seems to think there is a loophole to not allow fireams in dorms. I believe that the Texas AG has warned UT that it's dorm plan isn't acceptable. The whole thing is going to end up in court before it's settled.

February 29, 2016, 06:31 PM	#12
2damnold4this Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 2009 Location: Athens, Georgia Posts: 2,526	Interesting link on the UT Austin working group's recommendations. From the link it seems like many of the concerns are unfounded: What we can say is that we have found little evidence of campus violence that can be directly linked to campus carry, and none that involves an intentional shooting. Everytown for Gun Safety Support Fund (EGSSF), which represents itself as “an independent, non-partisan 501(c)(3) organization dedicated to understanding and reducing gun violence in America,” tracks school shootings that have occurred since the Sandy Hook elementary school shooting in December 2012.17 As of December 3, 2015, it listed 69 college or university shootings. Five of these occurred in states that had campus carry laws in place at the time of the shooting.18Two were on Wisconsin campuses, both of which prohibit concealed handgun carry in buildings. One is the recent tragedy at Umpqua Community College. As mentioned above, although Oregon is a campus-carry state, Umpqua CC prohibited students from carrying firearms in college buildings, and we are unaware of any mention that the shooter there possessed a license to carry. The other two shootings listed by EGSSF took place in Utah and Idaho; both involved accidental discharges.19We are also aware of two other accidental discharge incidents – one each in Colorado and Utah – that predate Sandy Hook and so are not listed by EGSSF.20Of these four accidental discharge incidents, two involved a license holder who was openly displaying a handgun to another person,21 and the other two involved license holders who were carrying their handguns unholstered in their pants pocket.22 Both at the public forum and in online comments, some respondents claimed that the introduction of campus carry in other states has caused an increase in the rate of sexual assault on campus. We have examined this and find that the evidence does not in any way support the claim of a causal link between campus carry and an increased rate of sexual assault.23 This is not to say that such a link may not exist. But it has not been demonstrated. The same is true regarding suicide rates. We found no evidence that campus carry has caused an increase in suicide rates on campuses in other states.24 Again, this is not to say that such a link may not exist. But it has not been demonstrated.