February 17, 2009, 09:49 PM | #1 |
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Chimpanzee Attack
Maybe you have heard about the latest animal attack--In California on monday, a 200lb Chimpanzee that was raised in captivity, like a human, suddenly mauled a woman. If you think this might be a joke, check out what kind of damage this thing did: He severely mauled her face and "He bit both of her hands off...It's terrible," said Lynne Mecca, a friend of the victim.
Article here: http://wcbstv.com/breakingnewsalerts....2.936381.html And in 2005 a chimpanzee attacked a man very severely, biting off all his fingers and 'other parts' leaving him in a coma for several weeks. Ive looked up 'chimp attack' on youtube and seen some pretty scary attacks. These guys apparently like to disable the hands and fingers first, perhaps instinct to a primate attacking another primate. Anyway I was thinking, what do you do in the face of such a vicious creature, apparently able to bite off fingers like snacks, that is instinctively lunging at your hands. Can you retain your weapon? Is it even possible to defend yourself with a bladed weapon if your gun is knocked away? I know its not likely to face an angry chimp. It just made me think. What could you do? Last edited by MikeGoob; February 17, 2009 at 09:56 PM. |
February 17, 2009, 09:55 PM | #2 |
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Honestly, I don't know. If your armed, of course, then you have some chance to avoid injury. I seriously doubt a backup blade would have done much good. Its a sad situation and people should realize that keeping 200lb monkeys and tigers and bears is ill advised.
From what I understand it trapped a LEO in his car and then proceeded to open his car door when the cop double tapped it. Also, heard some of the neighbors reporting that this animal was NOT friendly and this was a problem before all this happened. Imagine living next to a 200lb monkey who hated your guts. Sad situation.
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February 17, 2009, 11:15 PM | #3 |
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Monkey attack
Chimps are not particularly benign. Some years ago there was a researcher studying baboons. He was interviewed, and pointed out that he always carried his broomhandle Mauser pistol when he was out in the field with the baboons. His experience had led him to conclude that they were dangerous and untrustworthy.
More recently, several animal researchers were severely injured by chimps. They were not armed. |
February 17, 2009, 11:54 PM | #4 |
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Chimps are extremely dangerous and as they mature, it gets worse.
Forget using a blade---might as well use one against a rhino. The owner of this chimp was stabbing it with a butcher knife to stop the attack--didn't work. According to what I read and heard on the news, he bit the hands off and ATE them. Many people do not know that chimps eat meat and love it----they eat more than bananas. The owner NEVER should have called in someone the chimp did not live with. As far as a firearm, IF you were extremely quick and at the ready AND able to make the first shot a "fatal" shot, you may stand a chance. Wild animals are WAY faster than we are and close and cause damage very quickly.
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February 18, 2009, 01:19 AM | #5 | |
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That chimp got what was coming to him. |
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February 18, 2009, 01:35 AM | #6 |
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Deleted a couple of posts.
This thread is for discussing the tactics of defending against the admittedly unlikely attack of a Chimp or other large primate. It's not for discussing the ethics or wisdom of having exotic or dangerous animals as pets, the intricacies of animal psychology or the proper treatment of animals in captivity.
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February 18, 2009, 01:53 AM | #7 |
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Well first of all if your neighbor has any kind of animal that you are unsure about, then you need constant situational awareness, which you should already have. My backdoor neighbor has had a large, seemingly ill-tempered pitbull for a while and I have always kept that in my mind while outside. There is nothing better than being aware and being prepared. The places we are most comfortable we are also most vulnerable. All of that being said, a chimp can and will rip your limbs from your body.
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February 18, 2009, 03:14 AM | #8 | |
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IIRC, the guys that go to Africa generally shoot baboons on site. They are an African pest, apparently. They are extremely tough, and a 375 H&H, or even the 375 Rum are not considered improper. Same with Hyenas.
Chimps aren't far behind. They are incredibly powerful, and, your chances of getting a shot off aren't much, since they are also VERY fast, and smart. Watch a chimp take a car tire and bend it into a figure 8, and you'll get the general idea. In this situation, there simply is never enough gun. Situations like that are what this gun was designed for: Quote:
Ed Harris. Comes with dies, brass about 30 pieces, already formed. This is a stopping rifle, period. Same class as the .505 Gibbs, etc. It feeds FLAWLESSLY. And all those folks that make fun of our high powered snubbies, this one's in 50-110, that's a buffalo cartridge: Last edited by Socrates; February 18, 2009 at 03:29 AM. |
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February 18, 2009, 04:19 AM | #9 |
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I think what makes animal attacks so bad is the difference in the mental state after being shot. A chimp can be killed with any caliber that’ll effectively kill a human, but unfortunately an animal doesn’t react the same as most humans would when mortally wounded. While there are exceptions, many people will stop an attack after being shot. An animal is likely to fight to its last breath.
I guess the first thing you have to accept in this kind of attack is the fact you’re not going to walk away unscathed. Stand with your non-firing side forward, then let the chimp chew on your non-firing hand and arm while you unload with your firing hand. When thinking about a dog attack I’ve always figured this is likely your best bet. I don’t see it being any different in the unlike event of being attacked by a chimp. |
February 18, 2009, 05:32 AM | #10 | |
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+1. The psychological factor in one-shot stop statistics is hard to quantify, but is doubtlessly a large factor for humans. This is why it is difficult to look at one shot stop statistics of a given cartridge. It is nearly imposible to determine how much the psychological factor(s) had to do with a person ending the fight after the first shot... Many people are just predisposed to fall down after getting shot. This is why it is important to train to place several shots, spaced 2-3" apart rapidly to the threat. Both body then head shots fired continuously until the threat subsides. With an animal attack of any kind, this same rule would apply. Keep shooting until the threat is over. Of course for larger animals like a bear, lion, elephant, etc... a more powerful cartridge then what is typically carried would be needed. For common animals that pose a threat, dogs, coyotes, chimps...a number of service rounds fired to the body/ head should do the trick. |
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February 18, 2009, 06:24 AM | #11 | |
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I don't think you are really factoring in how weak humans really are.
Just watch a chimp swing around sometime, and you get the distinct feeling that they have cables for tendons, and, are solid muscle of a type humans can't really dream of. Likewise cats. My cat can jump about 8 times her height. That would make Dwight Howard a real superman, with a 56 foot vertical. Back to primates: One of the strength tests for gorillas is twisting truck tires into figure eights. Another: Non-husked coconut in super thick packing cardboard. Gorilla shakes box. Uses thumbs to peel cardboard off that would take a packing knife for us. Gets to coconut. Shakes by ear. Peels husk like it's the skin of a grape. Now has coconut. Pushes down on the ground. Does it again, slow, coconut breaks open. Gorilla enjoys the milk. The apes have a mechanical advantage in the way their tendons are connected, related to humans. They are farther apart, and, that gives them a huge leverage advantage. By the way, chimps are pretty good at this kind of stuff: Quote:
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February 18, 2009, 06:43 AM | #12 |
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http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2009...tacks_wom.html
Conklin said it wasn't clear what set him off, but theorized Travis' bout with Lyme disease - which can cause panic attacks, paranoia, personality changes and mood swings in people - could be connected. Travis was taking medication for the disease, Conklin said. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2009...rs_horr-2.html |
February 18, 2009, 07:16 AM | #13 |
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Actually humans are not necessarily all that weak. It's just that they (we) are better at some things than most animals and not so good at other things as most humans. Humans are particularly good at running (no joking here), not that people are so fast but few animals could run a long distance, not that they ever would. But many animals can out jump humans easily. But also, most animals are in better training than the average human, too.
Chimps used to be used a lot in jungle movies but they were generally young and even so, actors reported lots of bites.
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February 18, 2009, 07:38 AM | #14 |
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Animals in general do not act like humans when fataly shot. All they know is survive. They don't go "oh i'm shot boo hoo", they will fight to the last breath and then some.
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February 18, 2009, 07:39 AM | #15 |
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I do remember hearing one tactic with dogs: If they are running at you and a bite is imminent, you hold out your 'bad' forearm for them to bite (hopefully with a shirt wrapped around it if you have time). While he bites what you hold out, your good hand can stab/shoot his underbelly, neck etc.
With a chimp that can apparently snip off fingers and hands with those teeth, im not sure that would work too well however |
February 18, 2009, 08:56 AM | #16 |
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From general looking around, it seems that most apes that are shot are shot with 30-06 or larger caliber rifles.
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February 18, 2009, 09:09 AM | #17 | |
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Quote:
Tactics for dealing with one? Well, anything would be better than trying to take it on bare handed that's for sure. |
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February 18, 2009, 03:27 PM | #18 |
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Here is the 911 call: warning--VERY disturbing
http://www.youtube.com/v/OXK8Y_62Ysw The most poignant part is perhaps the woman SCREAMING for guns. Kind of drives home the point that you need to have a gun well before you actually need to use it. |
February 18, 2009, 04:19 PM | #19 |
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That is very disturbing.
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February 18, 2009, 04:33 PM | #20 |
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One of the disturbing things is you can tell the dispatcher thinks it's some kind of prank at first.
At 2:25 the friend is torn up and she's says "my god where are they, where are they?" 3:26 - They finally arrive and start shooting. Seriously, an excellent response time by the police but may literally have been a lifetime for the friend. |
February 18, 2009, 09:57 PM | #21 |
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A sad story, my heart goes out to the owners and the victim. When I first read the story in the news I started my what gun for Chimps count down. It didn't take long. The most dangerous animals on the planet have opposable digits. Chimpanzees have 4 of them. Maybe we should strike now?
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February 18, 2009, 10:19 PM | #22 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
Anyone actually seen any pics of the victim? From what I understand her face was ripped off, hands gone, etc. Also, does anyone know what they hit the chimp with and how many rounds it took? I think I heard 3-4 on the tape, but I wasn't counting. |
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February 18, 2009, 10:48 PM | #23 |
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This report suggests that he'd been hit w/ multiple shots from the officer's service pistol - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E4G4gtsOQQ
FWIW adult chimps are notoriously dangerous. The ones you see on TV and in the movies are typically much younger. They're usually retired to sanctuaries, or some other appropriate setting, once they get older. |
February 18, 2009, 10:53 PM | #24 |
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ZeSpectre, its possible the recording is edited for time.
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February 19, 2009, 12:59 AM | #25 |
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For those who still don't understand how strong a 200lb chimp is there's an informative exchange near the end of the 911 call.
The dispatcher advised the chimp owner to lock her car doors and she replied: "It don't matter, he'll rip the doors right off."
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