.45-70 powder choice?

[wjg686]

Now that we can use straight-walled cartridges for deer in Ohio, I plan to hunt with a Winchester (Japanese) 1886 short rifle in .45-70. How to choose a powder, and why do you recommend it, please?

[wncchester]

My only method of selecting a powder for anything is what my loading manual says; figger they know more about what is best than the guys at the barber shop... or the web.

[44 AMP]

Even though the .45-70 has a large capacity, the straight case is best with quick to medium burn rate rifle powders. Really slow burning powders for large magnums are inefficient in the .45-70.

The 86 Winchester, while stronger than the Trap Door Springfield design, is not the rifle to try and make a magnum .45-70 in.

CAREFUL handloading can safely beat the black powder speed factory load in the Winchester, by several hundred FPS. If you need more than that, you need a different rifle.

If you are looking to duplicate factory loads (or just a bit more), there are a number of suitable powders.

I use IMR 3031, and the Lyman manual "factory duplication load", with a 400gr cast slug for general use.

Since the .45-70 has been in use since 1873, there is a lot of loading data for the .45-70, and many modern reloading manuals have a section covering loads for the 1886 Winchester. Get some!

[schmellba99]

I use Varget in both my 1895 Marlin and my Sharps (Pedersoli). Burns clean, no real complaints on my end.

[myfriendis410]

I've used a number of powders, mainly under a 500 cast bullet. For hunting you will want something in the 300 to 400 gr. range. The Remington 405 gr. softpoint is a great accurate bullet. Powders that work well are IMR4198, IMR4895, RL7, IMR331, Benchmark, Varget etc.

Definitely want to use 1886 data. The Sierra manual only lists a 300 and a 350 gr. loading.

My favorite powders though are IMR4198, IMR4895 and RL7 with Benchmark following in 5th place. You also don't really need to hotrod it as the original loading was pretty sedate but still killed a lot of stuff.

[coldbeer]

50 grains of IMR 3031 with the Remington 405 gr soft point is my favorite load for my Marlin 45-70. It's not the most powerful load in the world but it's accurate and easy on the shoulder.

[mehavey]

Traditional Velocities:
- UNIQUE (the do-all powder)
- SR4759 (another classic)
- AA5744 (ditto)

Medium-Hot Loads:
IMR3031 (ditto ditto up to ElStompoGrande)

...and then of course the old standby
64-65gr Swiss 1½ topped off by a card wad and ignited by a pistol primer




Personally, very little on this continent is going to stand against even plain old trapdoor loads at Ohio distances.
Something about that slow-movin' freight train with a pre-expanded bullet, don'cha know...

[NoSecondBest]

I have a Winchester/Miroku 1886 and most every powder I've tried has yielded good results. My favorite is 2400 and a Remington 300 grain JHP or a Remington 405 grain JSP. I can consistently get five shot groups at 100yds just under two inches. You will find out that the Winchester/Miroku has absolutely no throat at all and most bullets heavier than 350 grains may not chamber. In fact, mine wouldn't even chamber the Hornady 300 grain round nose bullets. The gun is built to SAMMI specs and there is no throat with that spec. I took the gun to Turnbull's and had the throat lengthened quite a bit. It will now shoot any bullet I want to use. My favorite now is the Remington 405 grain JSP and 2400 powder. I use very light loads and so far every deer I've shot with this load has been a complete pass through. I doubt you'll ever recover a bullet from a white tail with this caliber no matter how light a load you use.

[wjg686]

Thanks very much! I have Lyman's and Sierra's reloading manuals, which list several loads. Hence the question as to which powder. I'm shooting .45-100 (Goex FF) out of my TC Omega Z5, which hurts both the deer and my shoulder. I'm thinking a true .45-70 load with a 300g bullet should do well at the 75 yards and under ranges I get here. I don't need magnum loads for our deer, and like the idea of not having to wash the rifle after using (or not using) it.

[flashhole]

Powder selection depends a lot on bullet weight.

I settled on two bullets

1) Hornady 350 grain jacketed bullet and use H-4895 powder ... an impressive combination.

2) I cast a 340 grain bullet using wheel-weight lead. This works really well with Varget at the lowest charge weights. My teenage daughter uses my Guide Gun with this load for deer and does really well with it.

I also have a 525 grain hard cast lead bullet loaded over RE#7 powder. Accurate in my gun but not at all fun to shoot so I hold these in reserve for marauding mad elephants that escape from the zoo. This thing will penetrate a freight train ... lengthwise.

[Howard31]

I had better luck with the 405 gr Jacketed bullet with 52 or 53 grs IMR 4895 in my Trapdoors. The Speer book says 49 to 53 grs. Fortynine grs will give you 1500+ fps velocity. That should knock a Deer over .

[chiefr]

Goex FFG

[Strafer Gott]

AA 5744 and 405 gr LRNFP hard cast makes a little cloud to go along with the thunder. It's not Black powder, but it's fun.

[CCCLVII]

For Hunting load I like IMR 4198

For shooting popgun loads I like trailboss

I have heard that some of the magnum handgun powders such as 2400 or H110 work well in a 45-70 but I have never tried it.

[zeke]

H4198 for 300 and 350 jhps. Very easy to replicate the factory 300 grain jacketed loads, which are fine for deer. Also softer shooting.

[mavracer]

The 86 Winchester, while stronger than the Trap Door Springfield design, is not the rifle to try and make a magnum .45-70 in.

CAREFUL handloading can safely beat the black powder speed factory load in the Winchester, by several hundred FPS. If you need more than that, you need a different rifle.

The 1886 action is stronger than the Marlin 1895 and modern repo's will gobble up Buffalo Bore's magnum 45/70 loads like candy.

[Deja vu]

If I could only have a single powder for every thing it would be 2400. It works great with 500+ grain bullets!

For hot hunting loads I like 4198

[WIN1886]

In my new model 1886 ( Miroku made version ) extra light rifle....I use IMR 4198 and IMR 3031 powders with jacketed bullets ! In an older rifle I use SR4759 with heavy cast bullets ! No need to jack up the loads for hunting deer but I have loaded a few hot ones for the Ruger #1 for kicks ( and it does ) !

[bfoosh006]

I have had good accuracy with Rem. 405gr and H322... used Hodgdon load data.

[darkgael]

When I was loading smokeless powders for my 45-70s, I used 3031, 4198, H322, Re7.....I liked Re7 the best with bullets in the 300-350 grain range. Most commonly I used 340 grain cast bullets.
Nowadays, I drop enough FFg into the case so as to have a mild compression when seating 405s atop a grease cookie.
As for "hot" hunting loads.... why? Even at 1300 fps.... you will have a 400 grain chunk of lead flying through the air..... what need for anything hotter?
Pete

[flashhole]

I'll bite .... what's a grease cookie?

[mehavey]

Some people (myself included at one time) melt their BP lube in a flat pan to about 1/8" - 1/4" depth, then cut out "grease cookies" of lube. These "cookies" are inserted into the case after the first card wad, then covered again with a second card to keep it from sticking to the bullet as it exits the muzzle. Theory is that it both cushions any pressure deformation of the bullet base, AND leaves a heav[ier] layer of lube within the barrel for the next shot,

I did this (soaked a 1/4" cut wad of felt weather-stripping in melted lube) on my 45-3¼/580gr paper-patch many years ago..... but now find it superflous as I damp-patch the bore anyway to be nice to the paper patching.

In fact I no longer do it on any of my single shots (2 sharps, a rolling block and a high-wall) -- and use a single card wad only -- as I find a blow tube works perfectly well even after a 30-min range delay in which fouling can otherwise harden considerably.

On a repeating lever-action, however, the grease cookie could have some benefit

[chiefr]

BP cartridge reloading is nothing close to smokeless, 24 & 36" drop tubes, grease cookies, beeswax and olive oil, lard, wads, paper patches, blow tubes, compression plugs, milk jugs full of soapy water are common lingo.

I would never fire anything but black powder thru any antique trapdoor.

1886s and Marlins, no problem. I like 3031

[darkgael]

I did this (soaked a 1/4" cut wad of felt weather-stripping in melted lube) on my 45-3¼/580gr paper-patch many years ago..... but now find it superflous as I damp-patch the bore anyway to be nice to the paper patching.

The single card is what I do when shooting my muzzleloaders.....my grease cookie is a lot simpler than described...maybe "wax cookie" is a better descriptor.
I use two 0.030" fiber wads with 1/8" of beeswax between them - that all goes between the bullet and the BP.

Just last year, I was playing around with some heavy smokeless loads for a single shot....350 grain JSP and loads of 4198 that started at 47 grains and topped off at 52.