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Old December 22, 2019, 08:32 PM   #1
American Man
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Are you prepared when you travel?

https://www.foxnews.com/us/missing-m...tal-found-dead

Anyone who followed this story knew there would be a tragic outcome. I'm not sure we're going to find out much more in the near future, especially since they are still trying to find the two suspects and this case could possibly go cold, hopefully not though.

Going off of the sitrep she relayed to her friend in the phone call, she obviously had a self defense mindset and tried her best to deal with the situation with what she had available. I don't want to turn this into a Minimum or Maximum number of rounds we should have available type of conversation. We all probably have a friend or two that this could happen to. This is more about Readiness. What does bother me about this is that is sounds like she got into an engagement, made the phone call to her friend, then ran out of ammo afterward and bailed out the back with what she had on or didn't have on, like not having her boots for one thing. Her shoes and phone were on the roof. Maybe after she ran out of rounds, she then grabbed her phone and boots and headed to the roof... and if someone was right behind her, maybe she had to hop off the roof immediately and then run right into the woods. Maybe the attackers heard her run out and saw her boots and phone and threw them on the roof so she would not be able to use them if she made her way back if they couldn't find her. These are some of the things we're probably not going to know for a while, if ever.

I do wonder if having a good shotgun would have been the difference in them gaining entry or breaking contact. Did she only have one magazine? Did she have a good taclight/flashlight? I have a lot more questions and I know I'm not going to get answers anytime soon.

What do you tell your friends if they're heading out of town for a few days?, or what questions do you ask? I always ask my brother if he's taking his AR pistol, and if he would say "no", I would have a problem with that.

Going to a cabin is not like going into town for some groceries so do you bring more guns and ammo, lights, etc? Do you bring more stuff with you if you are visiting friends for a weekend?

I know this isn't the greatest topic of conversation this time of year but I can't help but think this story needs to get out there and discussed.
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Old December 22, 2019, 09:34 PM   #2
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I am armed the same everyday when I venture out into the world. It makes no difference if I am on my property, going to the grocery store or traveling for business. My pistol on my hip and a spare magazine in my pocket. If I know I will be out after dark I carry my LED flashlight. Good lighting and also the potential to disorient any attacker.

Obviously if I am home there are additional weapons I can go to or have my wife go to if needed.

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Old December 22, 2019, 11:52 PM   #3
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I wonder if she had a spare mag... can't tell by the reporting. I don't want to assume she didn't have one. Going to a remote cabin, I'd be inclined to bring quite a bit more things. You're pretty much on your own and LE will probably not show up to save the day.
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Old December 23, 2019, 03:13 AM   #4
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This is a complicated and confusing story.

While it's clear that there was a good bit of shooting, there was no evidence of any bullets coming into the cabin, all the shots that hit the cabin were fired from inside going out. I've seen some pictures of the windows, and the shots appear to have been fired at too high of an angle to hit anyone on the ground outside the cabin.

Furthermore, although during the call she made, she claimed to have shot one of the attackers in the face, there was no evidence at all that anyone sustained any injuries. No blood found at the scene nor was there any evidence at all that someone else had been at the cabin.

She called a friend--not the police or a family member--and talked for four and a half minutes, during part of which the shooting was supposedly in progress. But although her report makes it sound like a close range shooting (she shot someone in the face) no injuries were apparently sustained on either side. Nothing is reported missing from the cabin.

The phone call, by the way, was the third she made. She tried to get hold of two other people (who have not been identified) before calling her friend.

The police found her handgun outside on the ground, but her cellphone and boots on the roof. The handgun obviously wasn't stolen by the attackers, and I have no idea what to make of either her or her attackers removing her boots and putting them on the roof.

Her car was found at the scene. Her purse was left behind. Her dog was inside the locked cabin, unharmed. She apparently gave the friend an incorrect house number (even though the cabin belonged to her family) which delayed the police response.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...in/4259145002/

I'll be interested to see how she died once the autopsy is completed, but given that none of the evidence seems to align with the claims she made on the phone, I'm kind of skeptical that there really was any kind of an attack.

It sounds more like she had some kind of break from reality. Her family mentioned that she had suffered a head injury earlier in the year. Her sister also discussed the possibility that Quintal had suffered some sort of mental breakdown or other medical problem.
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Old December 23, 2019, 07:36 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnKSa View Post
This is a complicated and confusing story.

While it's clear that there was a good bit of shooting, there was no evidence of any bullets coming into the cabin, all the shots that hit the cabin were fired from inside going out. I've seen some pictures of the windows, and the shots appear to have been fired at too high of an angle to hit anyone on the ground outside the cabin.

Furthermore, although during the call she made, she claimed to have shot one of the attackers in the face, there was no evidence at all that anyone sustained any injuries. No blood found at the scene nor was there any evidence at all that someone else had been at the cabin.

She called a friend--not the police or a family member--and talked for four and a half minutes, during part of which the shooting was supposedly in progress. But although her report makes it sound like a close range shooting (she shot someone in the face) no injuries were apparently sustained on either side. Nothing is reported missing from the cabin.

The phone call, by the way, was the third she made. She tried to get hold of two other people (who have not been identified) before calling her friend.

The police found her handgun outside on the ground, but her cellphone and boots on the roof. The handgun obviously wasn't stolen by the attackers, and I have no idea what to make of either her or her attackers removing her boots and putting them on the roof.

Her car was found at the scene. Her purse was left behind. Her dog was inside the locked cabin, unharmed. She apparently gave the friend an incorrect house number (even though the cabin belonged to her family) which delayed the police response.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...in/4259145002/

I'll be interested to see how she died once the autopsy is completed, but given that none of the evidence seems to align with the claims she made on the phone, I'm kind of skeptical that there really was any kind of an attack.

It sounds more like she had some kind of break from reality. Her family mentioned that she had suffered a head injury earlier in the year. Her sister also discussed the possibility that Quintal had suffered some sort of mental breakdown or other medical problem.
I was thinking panic could have caused her to have done the things inside the cabin, possible warning shot in the rafters, poor visibility causing stray shots. People do crazy things when they panic. If there was some verbal back and forth while all this was going on and suddenly she is looking at an empty gun in her hand, that might have been reason to panic further and evac hastily. I assumed she would never be found if they did get her and assumed if she was out there that dogs would have found her quick.

She quite possibly could have planned this or panicked her way into this, but she didn't strike me as the Lt. Gliniewicz type. I bet the autopsy will lead to even more questions.
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Old December 23, 2019, 11:25 AM   #6
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I'm not going to attempt to interpret what actually happened in this case, but instead to simply answer OP's question.

The only changes I make are to bring along more ammunition, it's not hard to include a 50 round box of handgun cartridges when packing a bag, and to be sure I have a reliable flashlight if the trip will extend into the dark hours or overnight.

I pretty much always have a pocket knife, small compass, and multi-too with me along with a firearm anyway, so the above items would be in addition to these.
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Old December 23, 2019, 12:32 PM   #7
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How prepared are you to retreat into the woods sans boots and perhaps clothing? You know the concept of "get off the X" The size of the X changes from time to time. Regardless of how well prepared I might be given a large enough force and enough time any static location becomes breachable.

So if your forced to retreat from your home? I happen to have incorporated barefoot running into my routine here and there. Is it comfortable? Nope. Do I prefer running with shoes? Lots. But I can move without them.

From my home its two miles through the creek and some ravines to get to help in relatives or a half mile (though harder terrain with better sight lines for my pursuers) to get to a trusted neighbors. Even my kids can do this in the dark.

I hope, in my retreat, to realistically have my flashlight (though it would be best to not use), a pistol and two spare magazines, and my ax because its on the way out. IF I can get to it a rifle but honestly because of how I would be forced to retreat it would likely not be in the direction of retreat from the house.

In wilderness I am not familiar with? Retreat becomes far more problematic. The same is true for urban environments. You give up A LOT of defensive advantages as you become less familiar with the area.
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Old December 23, 2019, 01:21 PM   #8
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Camping or staying at a remote cabin require different prep then a stay at the Westin in Scottsdale Az.

Not just weapons selection, but medical, evac planning, the works.

For me a remote cabin or campsite means a long gun and spare mags
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Old December 23, 2019, 03:17 PM   #9
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I feel like preparedness is more a state of mind than anything else, to be honest.

In terms of gear, it's the same stuff I always have on me. Which is plenty.

HK P30L with 2 spare mags, light, knife, keys, wallet, tourniquet, quick clot combat gauze,etc.

My bag has everything I mentioned doubled up along with food, 2 battery packs for my phone, charger, oh the list goes on.

If it's a longer than 2-3 day stay, I take more stuff with me.

It mostly depends why I'm traveling. I'm a hurricane evacuation zone (South Florida) so if I'm traveling because of evacuation, then I bring everything with me. I won't go into detail on what "everything" entails, but it's everything. One of the reasons I've chosen to sell 90% of my weapons.
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Old December 23, 2019, 03:22 PM   #10
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The story is at best odd and sad, but also sounds like there was a lot more to understand than what we know.

My wife and I enjoy getting out as often as possible, and we have traveled to many isolated cabins over the years, and had some wonderful times together. When ever we are headed into a remote area I always take a backpack that I prepare for such occasions. It contains, at a minimum, fifty rounds of applicable handgun ammo, and more spare mags, a hatchet, sheath knife, first aid kit, quart of water, some dried foods, spare socks, emergency blanket, compass, matches and a good flashlight with spare batteries. Other items might vary with the season.
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Old December 23, 2019, 03:23 PM   #11
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I have no idea what happened at that cabin.

As far as my own travel habits, I wherever legal have a handgun on me or at bedside, the same as at home. I make a habit of laying out the handgun, spare mag, and flashlight in the same order in the drawer of the bedside table, so I can find them by feel if needed. I also locate doors and fire escapes, and commit them to memory. I make sure my cell phone is handy and charged or on the charger at bedtime.
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Old December 23, 2019, 04:22 PM   #12
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I'm with JohnKSa on this one. Too much of what was found by local LE doesn't appear, on its face, to align with an actual "attack". Very strange. Out of the ordinary, to say the least. If the autopsy provides some answers, it may also provide some further questions.

To the OP's thread topic question?

Yes, when traveling (by road trip) I always take some additional precautions in adding more "safety equipment" in anticipation of unexpected difficulties. The location destination and route conditions factor into things, too.

I take extra flashlights, including backup LED lights, and extra batteries, as well as a charger for some backup rechargeable LED batteries. Backups for backups. Gotta be able to see in low/no light.

I generally don't step outside my house without having a small, but powerful, LED light in my pocket. That comes from too many years of working in LE and finding myself in low/no light conditions inside structures and other buildings even during the day. Also, it pays to be able to see details more clearly in "shadowed conditions" when trying to look at (or do) something, even outside at high noon. (Under the house, underneath something large, in some small enclosure, in thick & dense shrubbery, etc.)

Imagine how many otherwise normal people often panic, or at least act unprepared and confused, if the least little thing out of the ordinary happens. Think about being inside a large commercial building if the power fails, and the emergency lighting fails (or even works, but doesn't cover more than a small area around exits).

When traveling by road trip I tend to take a couple of LEOSA weapons along with me. Usually of different sizes for different carrying conditions and circumstances. Extra magazines for pistols (to supplement the normal spares), and ditto extra speedloaders/strips for revolvers. A full box of fresh ammunition tucked away for each caliber weapon, meaning in addition to what's already loaded in spare and backup-to-spare magazines, speedloaders/strips, etc.

Why? Because when unexpected things happen that may require the use of a gun, and you're some time/distance from local help (LE), it's better to have what you need with you. This is another habit I acquired during my years in LE, from learning the practical value of carrying extra 'extra' emergency gear in my marked and unmarked veh's (including backup ammunition to my usual spare ammunition). Might be helpful if your nearest cover is 30-60 minutes away.

Basic tools. Doesn't take much, and even that multi-tool kept in the glovebox can become a toolbox on the fly. Knives (folding & fixed, different sizes). Spare clothing (for anticipated conditions). Additional spare clothing and some emergency essentials in an easily grabbed and handled supplemental 'day pack', too. Something that can be grabbed if having to leave your car, meaning something more manageable than whatever of your regular luggage you may have to leave behind if you have to suddenly be able to move some distance. Extra foot gear, so you can take what may be 'best' for the moment.

This is all pretty basic stuff to folks who have to learn to prepare for exigent happenings that may coming calling without warning.

Now, how to think and act under duress and potential chaos? That doesn't come in a box. That more likely takes some training exposure, experiential knowledge (applying book knowledge) and learning to apply that acquired training, knowledge and experience to new situations.
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Old December 23, 2019, 05:19 PM   #13
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Flunks the smell test!

I carry an HKC or Glock leaving home for a short trip. On these short trips my shooting partner carries a Taurus 9mm. That should be sufficient to take care of most roadside problems. If more, we'd stay home. At home each of has the where with all to defend our homes.

I'm not leaving home and I'm not going to get hurt.

The event: I'd be looking for evidence of cocaine use. On can have delusions of attack and respond. This is a way of saying that it would an error not to hunt for substance use. I'd also look for evidence that the woman had taken her own life. There is a forensic autopsy that deals with these facets of a death. This would include metal health and living problems.

On the face, this story flunks the smell test.

Added: This assessment may be hard with skeletal remains.
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Old December 24, 2019, 02:28 AM   #14
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prepared?

I keep a basket with some water, light, food, a blanket, a tow chain or strap, booster cables and a few simple tools, in the vehicle all the time. I've tossed one of the Henry survival rifle (broken down) with a brick of .22's in there as well for longer jaunts out of state. Lately, I've come to the habit of carrying a 18-20" pump shotgun, sometimes a coach gun, with a variety of ammo, instead. Though I have a bunch of packs laying around, I don't really keep a bail out bag in the vehicle or at the house.

Would a shotgun have helped this poor soul? Dunno. Generally speaking, any long gun is better to fight with than a handgun. She would have had to have the skills to run a shotgun or any gun for it to do much good. Lots of folks buy a gun "to be safe" much like they a buy a toaster to make toast, and think they're good to go.

Circumstances are very cloudy on this one.
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Old December 24, 2019, 08:01 AM   #15
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Back in the 1960s I moved from the East Coast out to Arizona and quickly learned to stock the car trunk with the essential for that area. Back east that meant a couple bags of kitty litter for traction in mud, snow or ice; a set of tire chains and a block & tackle. In Arizona it meant a pretty complete first aid kit, at least two gallons of water and a tarp to create shade. Also I had a set of belts, spark plugs, a spare SU carb, distributor cap & rotor and set of plug wires. There was a tire plug set and a hand pump stored with the spare tire.

For protection I had a handgun OWB with an old JC Higgins pump 410 in the trunk. Well actually in the Boot since I had an MGB at the time.

In the Arizona of the 1960s if you had car trouble you either sat where you were and waited or fixed the problem and drove on.

These days there are LED lanterns, a full trauma kit, come-alongs, a solar charger, bug out bag with batteries, thermal blankets and water purifying stuff and fire starting kit, an Estwing hatchet, three 50ft lines and a small pop-up dome tent.
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Old December 24, 2019, 08:51 AM   #16
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Same here...no idea what happened in that cabin...

Traveling...the original title of this thread...my wife and I are retired and travel a lot...and we drive...after 40 yrs of flying, I can't stand to go thru an airport line any more. We both carry while traveling with two exceptions...our #1 son and family live in New York State and we don't take any guns with us up there...we live in KY and while Ohio and PA recognize KY's CC permit, NY recognizes virtually none others, and sometimes, truth be told, not even their own.

We also don't carry when staying at friends in Illinois either, another bastion of liberal politics. Traveling though that bankrupt, hermit corrupt Democratic Party Kingdom, we are VERY careful of the traffic laws, stop nowhere for fuel nor food, and get through as expeditiously as possible.

The north east, and the far west's ideas on the nanny state and universal disarmament are spreading and I fear the coming election. For gosh sakes, guys, get out the pro-2A vote, because the wolf is at the door.

The car also has a folding camp saw, a tarp, a small tool bag, matches, a multipurpose tool, and a pretty extensive first aid kit. Much of this also goes on the bike (BMW 1200GS) when I'm out riding with my MC buddies.

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Old December 24, 2019, 03:11 PM   #17
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Its a terrible thing that a young lady has died but there is nothing in that article that leads me to believe that a gun fight actually occurred. Several elements simply are not characteristic of such events and lack of evidence at the scene is very curious. I will wait and see what the Coroner says but right now, I don't buy it.


As far as being prepared when I travel.. well, I carry, I pay attention and I am suspicious of darn near everyone.
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Old December 24, 2019, 09:31 PM   #18
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American Man, your premise is an interesting one but not easily answered.

What ifs and what to carry when the ifs turn to crap?

Again no easy answers but when the crap hits the fan I hope I'm at the minimum armed with a semi-auto rifle with a chest rig fully equipped with appropriate magazines and a whole bunch of them!

On the other hand, I'll probably be having to make due with only with my lcrx loaded up with four rounds of .38+hollow points and a snake round!

Ok, so the bastards will smoke me, but I ain't going out alone! Ha!
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Old December 25, 2019, 08:26 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoo View Post
American Man, your premise is an interesting one but not easily answered.

What ifs and what to carry when the ifs turn to crap?

Again no easy answers but when the crap hits the fan I hope I'm at the minimum armed with a semi-auto rifle with a chest rig fully equipped with appropriate magazines and a whole bunch of them!

On the other hand, I'll probably be having to make due with only with my lcrx loaded up with four rounds of .38+hollow points and a snake round!

Ok, so the bastards will smoke me, but I ain't going out alone! Ha!
The lady in this story was probably more armed than most people that visit a remote cabin. I RV quite a bit and meet people... many in remote areas (dispersed camping) and I am always surprised at how many RVers are unarmed. Anything is better than nothing and anyone who has been RVing for a year knows there is a lot of things that can happen.. won't get into that right now.

I have to think there is more involved with this lady that can't be proven or released just yet. Her actions remind me of the two kids in the midwest who were riding around in single digit cold temps while smoking meth. I think it was 60 Minutes or some show that did a special on it where the kids called 911 about being lost and their car being broke down.

They are on the phone talking to 911 multiple times while LE is trying to figure out where they are and providing the operator with bizarre stories. They claimed to see people and that they would not talk to them when they were asking for help, which turned out to be cows afterward. They made their way to a house with a light and said the people inside would not help them, then they eventually separated and were both found dead.

LE found their car still running with the heat on. I might have messed up the story a little but it sounds similar to this lady's story, but without knowing the deal, it is probably worth analyzing, if anything to combat complacency in ourselves or friends we know.

Going to a remote cabin to me is definitely riskier than planning a trip and staying at a hotel for a couple days. Even a small hotel where the staff bed down for the night could assist or get 911 to respond rather than be left all on your own to deal with whatever occurs. I usually ask/annoy my friends with a few more questions based on their plans.

I have no idea if drugs were involved and I think the parents of those kids who froze to death didn't know either.

found a link to the kids story, just throwing it in here https://abcnews.go.com/Health/Primet...=549455&page=1

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Old December 25, 2019, 01:22 PM   #20
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Multiple guns, ammo, blow out kit, first aid kit, bug out bag.

I live in the north country. You do not go outside with shoes in the winter. In subzero temps your feet will start freezing immediately. The environment can be deadly.
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Old December 25, 2019, 02:16 PM   #21
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Just talking vacations . . . when taking road trips we have a couple of Glocks with few sticks of 33 rounders plus extra ammo and a shotty or AR in the trunk. When flying, we have a couple of Glocks plus extra mags/ammo. I absolutely despise flying on vacations these days.

We try really hard to not visit States for leisure that don't recognize our various CCW licenses. Might seem drastic but I have no desire to spend my hard earned money in States that don't believe in my right to defend my life or my loved ones.

Going back to the original story...that really sounds like the lady was on something. I would be interested to learn exactly HOW/WHAT she died from.
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Old December 25, 2019, 05:42 PM   #22
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I always carry a at least a handgun when traveling. If I’m traveling so far as to require stops between destinations I always have one concealed on my person and one for quick access in the vehicle.

If I’m traveling through or staying anywhere outside of a city, anywhere law enforcement response time is expected to be much longer, I’ll have a rifle or shotgun as well as the handguns.

I don’t usually carry a spare mag for my CCW, but I always have a spare mag in the vehicle for the handgun I keep there. The farther away I’m traveling or staying from civilization the more mags and ammo I bring for whatever I take with me.

I also keep a flashlight and a portable power bank/cell phone charger in the car. I also have a “get home bag” in the car that I can grab and go if I have to abandon the vehicle.

With what I carry on my wrist or in my wallet I wouldn’t have a problem evacuating into the woods with no other supplies, especially if I have both.

The most important thing I carry with me is the training to use all of the above mentioned tools.
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Old December 26, 2019, 06:49 AM   #23
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EDC: Glock 23 IWB + spare mag + Shield 40 in pocket.
When traveling I take a replacement for each of those plus a couple of flashlights.
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Old December 26, 2019, 08:16 AM   #24
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This looks like simple mental illness or hard drugs to me. Living off alone in the pucker bush like that is the first hint. I doubt very much she had all of her oars in the water when this happened. From the pictures she looks like she’s had a pretty hard ride for a long time.
Up here in the North country we’ve had several cases like that in the last few years. They get all hammered up and something stumble off and fall into a small creek and drown. None of them were gun toting recluses but they did manage to drown them selves in small bodies of water. For whatever reason people just don’t find them for a long time. When you really look around you’ll find there’s some strange birds and a lot of quiet drug addicts everywhere.
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Old December 26, 2019, 12:26 PM   #25
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Still no further details of the death?

Anyhow, reading through the thread posts it's nice to see that common sense hasn't died off to the extent that media sources would seemingly like to have us believe.
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