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View Poll Results: Are you open to any form of gun control? | |||
1. Absolutely against ANY form of gun control | 56 | 72.73% | |
2. Open to sensible control laws | 19 | 24.68% | |
3. For more restrictive gun control laws | 2 | 2.60% | |
Voters: 77. You may not vote on this poll |
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June 23, 2014, 10:34 PM | #126 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 8, 2012
Posts: 2,556
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So you want a consistent class that's good for all 50 states and DC, and the legal systems of each jurisdiction? I didn't know where you're from, I wasn't suggesting you were from Oregon. Oregon and Washington are neighbors, both are Shall Issues. One requires training, one does not. And the numbers just aren't that different. Oregon's class syllabus does sound an awful lot like that Hunter's Ed class you were talking about earlier. And I'm lost.... what was your point exactly? That the permits I'm talking about as pointless aren't pointless because you feel there should be some training requirement that isn't there in the vast majority of jurisdictions? In other news, Justice League of America membership cards aren't useless, because people should go through the same training regimen as Batman as soon as they get one. Then build a Batmobile and Batsuit. |
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June 23, 2014, 10:53 PM | #127 | ||||||||||||
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Join Date: January 24, 2011
Posts: 1,427
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No FBI statistics as it seems unintentional / negligent discharges don't even register. Quote:
You may wish to do some reading of the research by Gary Kleck. He has documented the most information on firearms use / misuse by anyone that I know of. @ Jim Dandy Quote:
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You claim that these are [MY] classes, tests, and cards. You fail to recognize that WE, as law-abiding, responsible gun owners have a voice in government. So many members on here make this seem like a "us verse them" anytime the government is mentioned. If you take that mentality, we are already losing the battle. If there was a law that required I re-qualify on a regular basis, I would comply with it. I don't have time to practice as often as I would like, but I do practice with pellet guns and Airsoft guns. I believe that we should be responsible for EACH AND EVERY SINGLE ROUND that leaves our guns. To me, that means maintaining a level of proficiency so I greatly reduce my chances of hitting an innocent bystander. Maybe you are the selfish one who believes that your right to self defense trumps an innocent bystander's safety since a required training class is too much to ask. Quote:
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Want to see the content of California training for guards: Ca. DoCA Manual As was stated by others before me, so you want the government to mandate the training? This is the required material for the 8 hour course. BTDT. and as I stated before, the qualification shoot as well as the requalification is the same as it is for Law Enforcement. More and more I fail to see your point. Edit to add: with ~13% of the US population this one state does make for an interesting potential data pool. @Jim Dandy Quote:
If you have anything valuable to add, I'm listening (or reading). @SHR970, Quote:
I will reiterate that the intention is not to deny anyone a right to self defense or attempt to strip anyone of their ability to do so. The underlying reason is to prevent unnecessary deaths caused by accidents and allowing unrestricted access to mentally unstable people. As I have also stated, statistics about reduced gun violence don't mean a damn thing to those who have recently lost loved ones. Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; June 23, 2014 at 11:30 PM. Reason: Posts Merged |
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June 23, 2014, 11:41 PM | #128 | |||||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: August 8, 2012
Posts: 2,556
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There is no second set of rights for apartment dwellers. So, yeah, I'm still waiting. What makes shooting at one person with one innocent bystander in a convenience store result in less collateral damage with a CCW, than an apartment building with apartments on 5 sides without one? Hey, this is your reasoning. The logic should work. I'll wait. Longer. Again. Quote:
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For all your stigmatizing over my "complacency" allowing a hunting right that never was to become a privilege, you continue to try and treat the right to keep and bear arms AS a privilege. For the record, I don't mind snark, but find it a bit hypocritical to claim civility while slapping people around verbally. |
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June 23, 2014, 11:53 PM | #129 | |
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Join Date: August 30, 2009
Location: Northern AZ
Posts: 7,172
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June 24, 2014, 12:07 AM | #130 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 8, 2012
Posts: 2,556
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While I'm thinking about this... you folks who are all in favor of required competency tests that don't infringe on someone's right to self defense. What do you plan on doing about the nearly blind guy who has no intention to ever shoot anyone unless and until he's in direct physical contact with whoever is assailing him? http://blogs.lawyers.com/2013/09/bli...apons-in-iowa/
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June 24, 2014, 12:45 AM | #131 | ||||||||
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Join Date: March 11, 2005
Posts: 3,840
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@Jim Dandy,
Seems like a wonderful waste of time to continue this banter, but I will attempt to respond to your points before I call it a night. Quote:
Regarding hunter education classes, do a quick Google search and see how many states claim a significant reduction in accidents since the classes were implemented. My hope is that firearm safety classes for new gun owners will reduce accidents and senseless deaths. Besides, a standardized class is much more consistent that just anyone teaching a new gun owner. There may be great teachers and there may be horrible teachers. A consistent guide will reduce the variability in the teaching. Quote:
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Regarding this comment Quote:
Regarding my business, I guess you would know exactly how many managers I run. For the record, I am Asian. I also have 2 Caucasian GMs, both females, 1 white AM, and a mixed AM. I take pride in the fact that I have a diverse work force and that I am able to promote minorities. The break down was for the purpose of prima facie evidence that there is not grounds for discrimination in my hiring practices as alleged by my former employee. Furthermore, the whole reason for going into that discussion was that the legal system is not really as fair as you make it out to be. People have the right to sue whoever they want provided they can find an attorney to take the case. While it is important that the "little guy" can have his day in court, to claim he is on equal ground when going against much larger companies (except in class action suits) is false. While the Second Amendment grants us the right to keep and bear arms, the high number of accidental shootings and recent uptick in mass shootings indicates (at least to me) that something needs to be done. I'm guessing that you are fine with the number of accidental shootings and mass shootings since you feel that no action is needed. Quote:
Feel free to declare yourself the winner in this debate if that was your objective. I have answered your questions to the best of my ability and feel any further response to you would be an exercise in futility. Have a nice day.
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The ATF should be a convenience store instead of a government agency! |
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June 24, 2014, 12:55 AM | #132 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 11, 2005
Posts: 3,840
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@Jim Dandy,
Since you posted this before I finished my response, I would like to quote from the article you shared. Quote:
With that, I'm done. Stick a fork in me.
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The ATF should be a convenience store instead of a government agency! |
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June 24, 2014, 08:49 AM | #133 | |||||||
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Join Date: August 8, 2012
Posts: 2,556
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Why is someone who is allowed to have firearm in the first place, and thereby trusted to possess it, while obeying all laws on when and when not to shoot, not trusted with it 50 feet away on the street in front of their home without paying another 50 bucks and getting fingerprinted for a little paper card? Can you please answer this WITHOUT attempting to twist the original status of this Everyman into a danger in their own home, but being OK with that? Quote:
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June 24, 2014, 12:12 PM | #134 | ||||
Staff
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 13,059
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Incidentally, I'm in more real danger from a soccer mom weaving across three lanes of traffic while she's trying to text someone than I am from a CCW holder on the street. And she's had mandatory training and licensing.
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Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe |
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June 24, 2014, 12:29 PM | #135 |
Staff
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,839
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Although civil for some time, this one is devolving, and is skirting perilously close to personal attacks, and so we're done with this one.
CLOSED
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All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better. |
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