3½ inch self-defense shotshell loads ?

[Pezo]

#4 buck is fine but as small as I'd go. I would not suggest bird shot at all for defense. But that's a given.

[TylerD45ACP]

Cylinder Bore 00B buckshot out of an 18" barrel at 7yds. has about a 5"-8" spread. That is depending of deformation of pellets and such. Some loads dont pattern well.

[wilson133]

Law enforcement considers the 2&3/4 low recoil buckshot to be adequate and they are much more likely to deal with drugged up maniacs than you. The important question that no one has asked you is if you live alone or is there a wife or gf that might need to use that shotgun for self defense when you are not there? How about a teenage son or daughter? The monster shells are definitely too much for them.

[mpd61]

After reading this thread I had to wonder how lucky our grandfathers were to have killed so many beast, fowl, and men with the measely 2.75"

Seriously...as a police firearms instructor I can wholeheartedly endorse the Low-recoil self defense loads being marketed today as absolutely effective and adequate.

[Shoes]

Would you rather be shot with 2.75 or 3"??? The answer: Neither. Trust the copper ( I was one as well). The biggest consideration should be who will you hit if the round penetrates the wall into your kids bedroom.

Bottom line, if you shoot a mope with a shotgun he's gonna stop doing whatever it was that honked you off.

Use the lightest load you can so it wont go through a wall. It WILL provide all the defense you"ll need.

Shoes

[Nnobby45]

Use the lightest load you can so it wont go through a wall. It WILL provide all the defense you"ll need.

We hear that philosophy a lot, but as you cut down on penetration for home safety reasons, you also cut down penetration on Bubba the home invader.

Not saying you shouldn't use lighter loads, just that there's a trade off you need to consider that all the advice about small buckshot or even birdshot doesn't address.


Yes, at typical home defense ranges where Bubba isn't hiding behind some heavy furniture, smaller shot works fine before it has a chance to spread out. If Bubba (and his friends) are behind cover, the smaller shot may not provide "all the defense you'll need". Usually? Yes. Always? NO.

The safest loads for HD are ones that wouldn't penetrate anything. The most effective loads can penetrate walls. Your call.


Just my thoughts on the matter.

[ADB]

Yes, at typical home defense ranges where Bubba isn't hiding behind some heavy furniture, smaller shot works fine before it has a chance to spread out. If Bubba (and his friends) are behind cover, the smaller shot may not provide "all the defense you'll need".

If you feel the need to be shooting at someone who's behind cover and not advancing on you, you're doing something wrong. A proper home defense strategy is to pick your choke point--stairs are usually good--and fire only if someone chooses to advance on you.

[Nnobby45]

If you feel the need to be shooting at someone who's behind cover and not advancing on you, you're doing something wrong.

An intruder who's criminally breached the sanctity of my home has advanced far enough.

Sorry to hear that you feel I'd be doing something wrong by eliminating a threat, in my own home, who's behind tactically advantageous cover from which he can kill me.

In any event, I think 00 buck can eliminate that advantage better than birdshot.

A re-evaluation of your statement might be in order.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

[BoomieMCT]

Originally Posted by shoes

Use the lightest load you can so it wont go through a wall. It WILL provide all the defense you"ll need.

I cannot agree with this. Check out "Shotgun Meets the Box O Truth" or "Rifles, Shotguns and Walls". I get the impression that anything that will penetrate a bad guy will also penetrate walls.

[VirtualGreg]

My hunting shotgun (and which served as my HD weapon of choice until I picked up the Glock) is a Benelli Supernova, which will take a round up to 3 1/2"

Whilst it served as my HD weapon I did have 5x3.5" 00 bucks ready, but with hindsight they were too impractical for all the reasons cited above. It has a huge amount of wallop. I used my stock 10 rounds up and haven't restocked. Also, a shotty that will take 3.5" shells won't be a gating factor in any future shotgun purchase - I don't hunt anything big enough that I need shells that big, and if I do revert back to the shotgun for HD purposes I'll be using 2 3/4" shells.

Also for what it's worth I probably wouldn't get another Benelli Supernova for hunting- heavy sonofagun. But thats for another thread

[darkgael]

The thing most folks don't realize about 3 1/2 inch shells is that the amount of powder is the same, there's just more shot. Using the good old f=ma formula, this means that the velocity of a 3 1/2 shell leaving the barrel will be less than a 3 inch shell of the same shot. Now, if you're blasting birds on the wing you're gonna want more pellets out there doing work but for a house there's really no need. Any 2 3/4 or 3 in buckshot will get the job done. No. 4, 0, 00 etc.

+1. Good to read that. The only thing "more powerful" about a 3 1/2" shell is that it has more pellets in it.
Each pellet has the same energy as a pellet fired from a 2 3/4" shell. In fact, 3 1/2" buckshot loads evidently operate at about 200 fps slower than 2 3/4" loads. If part of the idea is that the 3.5 incher would be more useful against a bad guy under cover, you should rethink that. Out in the open, there's a greater chance that there might be more hits per shot and, thus, more energy per shot but at in home distances, you are looking at a pattern about ten inches wide at best - 18 pellets/9 pellets of 00. I suspect that nine will do the job decisively.
Pete

[thesheepdog]

Remington makes 3.5 Mag in 00 and 000 buck.

NOT RECOMMENDED FOR HD UNLESS YOU'RE EXPECTING T-1000 TERMINATORS AT YOUR DOOR!!!!!!

The recoil is waaayyy too heavy for HD. It's basically overkill.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Shotguns won't kill terminators. The low recoil 00 or slugs are easy to shoot.

I'd like someone to show where they didn't do the job as compared to a 3.5 load. t-test - anybody?

[Nnobby45]

The thing most folks don't realize about 3 1/2 inch shells is that the amount of powder is the same, there's just more shot

You have the right idea.

It gets confusing, though. The short magnum crams more shot into the case and results in less velocity. You can't get the heavier charge going as fast as the lighter one. Magnum means more shot.

Powder charge is reduced since the extra weight creates more resistance and therefore pressure. Or, the factory can use a different powder.

In the 3" or 3 1/2", Magnum applies both to the increased case capacity AND the larger shot charge it will accomodate. The increased capacity allows the velocity to be maintained compared to the 2 3/4" case with similar pressures. If you increase the shot charge in the Magnum case, velocity still drops compared to the lighter charge.

In any event, the factory that produces the ammo has it worked out thru testing. And they have special powders they've blended to accomplish what they need that aren't available to the handloader.

[ADB]

I cannot agree with this. Check out "Shotgun Meets the Box O Truth" or "Rifles, Shotguns and Walls". I get the impression that anything that will penetrate a bad guy will also penetrate walls.

Anything out of a shotgun will penetrate a wall. Period. Even the little plastic shot cup, filled with a load of tissue paper. This was actually tested by somebody here on TFL, and that went through wall board at HD ranges.

The key is always to know your backstop, and if you're in a situation where you can't control what's behind your target, then select an appropriate shot size.

[Shoes]

My point was, if you hit anyone with a shotgun, no matter what the load, they are hit. Average intruder wants money or valuables, and NOT being detected while doing so. Rarely, is there a gunfight, ie: hiding behind furniture, involved with these types of home invasions.

In short, shoot, or shoot at, a scumbag with a shotgun and you'll have him wishing he were anywhere other than in your home. I also suspect he'll be unassing the area with great haste.

If you can acomplish this with the least amount of damage or penetration to anything or anyone else your gold is achived.

Any guy that sticks around after that - continue to shoot hium until the desired effect is achived.

[hardworker]

I've never been shot by birdshot, but I imagine it would feel like getting stung by 100 hornets all at once, unless the distance was point blank in which case it is like getting shot by a slug.

[ADB]

I've never been shot by birdshot, but I imagine it would feel like getting stung by 100 hornets all at once, unless the distance was point blank in which case it is like getting shot by a slug.

Those would be some mean hornets. Let's take an example of birdshot we're all aware of: former Vice President Cheney's hunting accident. A light dove load, from what was described as 90 to 120 feet away, penetrated all the way into the victim's chest cavity and was touching the surface of his heart.

[Shoes]

I'm convinced I'm full of crap.... I thought about the longest hallway in my house and thought that this would be the longest "gunfight" I would have to defend against. Then I thought, "I'd hate to be tore up by birdshot at 17 feet". And it probably wont do any collateral damage.

Yep, I'm full of it...... Shoes

[NightSleeper]

I'd like someone to show where they didn't do the job as compared to a 3.5 load. t-test - anybody?

Hmmmm .... let me think a second ..... NAH!

[MTT TL]

Hearing about some of the violent home invasions and the types of folks doing it, not sure anything is too powerful.

In that case may I suggest:

[Nnobby45]

Then I thought, "I'd hate to be tore up by birdshot at 17 feet". And it probably wont do any collateral damage.

From my bedroom door to my safe in the living room (which is visible) is close to 15 yds. At that distance bird shot from my cyl. bore has spread out so it's wider than Bubba, and not likely to penetrate much past a leather jacket.

[Evyl Robot]

Any factory produce 3½ inch 12 gauge loads with 00, 000, or even 0000 buckshot suitable for self-defense loads ?

What are you defending against?

[Old Grump]

What are you defending against?

Why boogermen, closet monsters and monsters who live under the bed of course.

[Rifleman1776]

Some experts claim control of the shotgun is far more important than it's power. I have read (might have been by Moosad, but not sure) that a 20 ga. is more effective than a 12 because it can be brought back on target much quicker.