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Old June 23, 2017, 12:59 PM   #1
Bartholomew Roberts
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TFL Lawyer Makes Indiana News

I notice a fellow TFL member has made the local news for challenging the county's attempt to create a gun ban in violation of Indiana state law by claiming that an unused storeroom was a "courtroom" and thus prohibiting carry in the building.

https://lafayettecitizenjournal.com/...-foia-request/
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Old June 23, 2017, 01:05 PM   #2
Sequins
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Interesting backdoor gun ban technique.
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Old June 23, 2017, 01:28 PM   #3
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Very interesting and shady.
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Old June 23, 2017, 01:31 PM   #4
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New TFL slogan: "Kudos for Kirk!"

(Or is that "Kudos to Kirk!"?)
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Old June 23, 2017, 11:27 PM   #5
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Interesting that "they" almost immediately went after him "out of bounds" when he started asking uncomfortable questions. That's virtually an admission of guilt--but I imagine they thought he would shut up once he realized that they were willing to play dirty.
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Old June 24, 2017, 07:04 AM   #6
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Very shady of the county. Good for Mr. Freeman!
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Old June 24, 2017, 09:42 AM   #7
Aguila Blanca
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Quote:
Interesting that "they" almost immediately went after him "out of bounds" when he started asking uncomfortable questions. That's virtually an admission of guilt--but I imagine they thought he would shut up once he realized that they were willing to play dirty.
Unfortunately, this is not unusual. The Powers That Be don't like to be questioned ... or caught out.

I live in a state that issues carry permits, generally without a lot of hassle. In my small town (population under 10,000) there are somewhere in the vicinity of 475 carry permits issued (verified with the State Police, which is the issuing agency) as of two years ago. My town also has a local ordinance prohibiting the "possession" (not just "carry" of a loaded firearm on any Town-owned property. When I discovered this ordinance (by accident), I consulted the local police, and I was informed that, yes, Town-owned property includes Town roads. I live on a Town road. This means that (1) legally, I can't walk to my mailbox with a loaded gun on my hip, because the mailbox is within the road right-of-way. (2) If I want to go armed to anywhere, I have to start out unarmed and drive either a mile north or two miles south, until I reach a state road, whereupon I can find somewhere to pull off (not not on Town-owned property) to load up.

I engaged a firearms rights attorney and we approached the Town Council about amending the ordinance to fix what we perceived to be the unconstitutional nature of this ordinance. After three meetings and much correspondence, they proposed a revision that would:
  • Create a carve-out for the police (currently there isn't one);
  • Create a carve-out for lawful carry on public roads; and
  • Make it a violation to possess ANY firearm (even unloaded) on Town-owned property.
So their proposed "fix" would actually make things worse. There is still no way for anyone from out of town to know about this ordinance -- who researches the local ordinances of every town they drive through or visit for business purposes? There are no signs posted on major roads leading into the town, and no signs posted at entrances to town facilities. Under the existing ordinance, I can at least stop on the state road a quarter of a mile from the library and town hall, unload, and leave my unloaded pistol in the car while in the building. Under the proposed revision, I couldn't even do that (legally). I would have to know in advance that I was going to the town hall, and leave the gun at home. Or else park in the church parking lot a quarter of a mile from town hall and leave the gun there.

The Town attorney assured my attorney, before sending us the proposed revision, that they had fixed the problems and that he was certain her client (me) would "love" the revised language. What a joke! The proposed revision was clearly a "poison pill" proposal. In one of our meetings with the Town Council, the mayor (an attorney) basically acknowledged that they know the ordinance violates both the federal and state constitutions, but "We don't like guns."

And that's the crux of the issue. When the Powers That Be are willing to put their personal dislike for firearms ahead of their sworn duty to defend and uphold the constitution(s), you can expect them to play dirty at every opportunity.

In my case, the next step would have to be to file a lawsuit. But the state's judiciary are overwhelmingly liberal Democrats who hate guns, so that's not a good option ... and I don't have the money to undertake the suit anyway. So, in the end, we slunk away with our tails between our legs, and the old ordinance is still in effect.
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Old June 24, 2017, 04:53 PM   #8
Bartholomew Roberts
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Aguila Blanca, have you contacted the NRA Civil Rights Legal Defense Fund? That is just the type of case they are often good at handling.
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Old June 24, 2017, 10:51 PM   #9
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Aguila,
State pre-emption. Most cities will fall into line after you beat them once. You may fight a few cities for decades anyways(Cleveland), but at least you will win each fight.
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Old June 24, 2017, 11:55 PM   #10
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My state doesn't have preemption.


I didn't intend to hijack this discussion. I only used my situation as an example of why we should never trust government entities.
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Old June 25, 2017, 03:48 PM   #11
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Quote:
Quote:
Interesting that "they" almost immediately went after him "out of bounds" when he started asking uncomfortable questions. That's virtually an admission of guilt--but I imagine they thought he would shut up once he realized that they were willing to play dirty.
Quote:
Aguila Blanca
Unfortunately, this is not unusual. The Powers That Be don't like to be questioned ... or caught out.
Amen to all the above.
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Old June 25, 2017, 08:55 PM   #12
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Awhile back (maybe six months to a year) there was a video on Youtube showing a meeting of the city council in some municipality, somewhere in the U.S. I'm sure it's still there, but I didn't bookmark it and I haven't been able to find it.

The video showed discussion regarding the adoption of a municipal anti-gun ordinance. It was pointed out by someone that the state in question had preemption, so if passed the ordinance couldn't be enforced. And one knucklehead councilman stated flat out that he didn't CARE if the ordinance couldn't be enforced, because "We have to do something."

When our rulers think (allegedly) in such manner, there is no point in trying to reason with them. It's all about the sound bites.

Last edited by Aguila Blanca; June 25, 2017 at 09:02 PM.
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Old June 25, 2017, 08:58 PM   #13
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My state does have pre-emption. I've still had city policymakers tell me that they wanted me to figure out a way to ban guns from X, Y or Z. I've also heard things like, "Well, even if we can't ban guns, we can still ban ammunition, right?"
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Old June 26, 2017, 05:12 AM   #14
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Anybody ever been reassured by:

"Oh don't worry about that. We won't enforce it that way."
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Old June 26, 2017, 10:03 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by DaleA
Anybody ever been reassured by:

"Oh don't worry about that. We won't enforce it that way."
Yes.

When I was researching the effects of my town's ordinance, I called the police department to ask if it applied on public roads. The Deputy Chief told me that, as far as they were concerned, it did -- the rights-of-way for Town roads are owned by the Town.

But (he said), "Nobody's going to go to jail over this."

Right - Until the next Chief decides to enforce it more strictly, or until a cop makes a traffic stop when he/she is having a bad hair day ...
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Old June 26, 2017, 09:50 PM   #16
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Quote:
"Oh don't worry about that. We won't enforce it that way."
How do you think gun control was passed in the South after the Civil War?
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