.223 enough for deer - Page 5

guntotin_fool · May 17, 2008, 01:25 AM

.223 is too small for MOST northern deer, particularly when MOST of the ammo sold over the counter for it is loaded with bullets too light for adequate penetration, and too thinly constructed for big game. Sure you can kill a deer with a .22 hornet or a big bear with a .22 long, its been done, but a lot more run off and die slow than get recovered in my experience.

Why risk it, particularly when the platform of an AR is mentioned, that might be a decent battle rifle, but its a sucky deer gun. Now before people label me a Fudd, I have several EBR's including a couple set for Varmints, and I have no problem shooting prairie Dogs with 5.56 and 6x45 because that size round was made for that, Deer rifles should be compact light, east to carry, have enough punch for good clean one shot kills at any angle, not the bare minimum unless you completely promise to never take that bad angle shot, no matter what the size of the deer. Personally I do not want to miss that shot at the 16 point swamp monster because i do not have a gun strong enough to take a 3/4 away angle shot as it walks away. If I was shooting a 223, i could not in good conscience take that shot.

My personal favorite deer gun is a savage 99 Eg in 300 savage. Lyman peep sight, and simple leather sling. I can hit deer at 250 yards and in, and with 165 handloads, I can comfortable shoot through a deer from any angle that it provides me.

Swampghost · May 17, 2008, 02:16 AM

guntotin, we had a FL deer taken at camp this year with a .300 Savage. Down here most is up close and personal, we had doe tags and 100# minimum. The 105# doe was hit from about 50-75 feet. IMHO, the 300 Savage was more than enough, almost embarrassing.

guntotin_fool · May 17, 2008, 09:27 PM

A hundred pound deer in the north is a young of the year. 200 pound does are common, 300 pound live weight bucks are not uncommon. Field dressed bucks that run in the mid to upper 200's are pretty darn common.

Hence I added to my arguement that a Northern deer needed a bit more gun.

I run about 265 lb, the deer behind was at least that much, the two behind the boy are a doe and her young of the year, both shot with a 250 savage. The doe weighed 170 the young was just over 90, both shot at about 125 yards, The buck I shot running dead at me after the boy shot the doe, at about 80 yards

sureshots · May 21, 2008, 10:59 AM

I have A gut feeling that A good portion of the members who have replied to this thread have never attempted to kill A whitetail deer with A 223 cal.Rifle. I have, many times. A good hunter with the proper skills can easily do this if he follows A few simple common sense rules. One should stay away from the extremely long shots,running shots, shots where you do not have A clear view and it also helps to have A rest for your rifle and the right bullet. This may not be the best choice of Cal. for everyone but it can be very effective in the right hands. I am not saying that this cal. is not on the light side,it is. I'm just saying that you can kill deer on A regular basis with this Cal.. This is not just my opinion it is indeed A fact because I personally know others who have taken many deer with this Caliber. I am going to start A new thread on the art of the rifle section asking for members to provide info on kills with the 223 Cal.

Art Eatman · May 22, 2008, 07:57 AM

Again, remember that the odds are that folks like us who spend time at this sort of forum are likely to hunt and shoot more often than the average hunter. YOU may well pick a specific point on your deer. Ol' Joe might just aim somewhere in the brown.

sureshots · May 22, 2008, 08:23 AM

Art, I agree with you 100%. It would amaze everyone to know the number of hunters who just shoot at the whole deer. I think when one begins to pick A spot to shoot your animal it is A good sign one has started to mature as hunter. This is the factor that will result in one shot kills and will often eliminate the need for tracking A wounded animal. Its not always the gun or the caliber, its more the factor of the Man behind it. A bad shot is just that ,reguardless of the Caliber.

May 21, 2008, 10:59 AM	#104
sureshots Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 2008 Location: Piedmont,NC Posts: 464	No Experience I have A gut feeling that A good portion of the members who have replied to this thread have never attempted to kill A whitetail deer with A 223 cal.Rifle. I have, many times. A good hunter with the proper skills can easily do this if he follows A few simple common sense rules. One should stay away from the extremely long shots,running shots, shots where you do not have A clear view and it also helps to have A rest for your rifle and the right bullet. This may not be the best choice of Cal. for everyone but it can be very effective in the right hands. I am not saying that this cal. is not on the light side,it is. I'm just saying that you can kill deer on A regular basis with this Cal.. This is not just my opinion it is indeed A fact because I personally know others who have taken many deer with this Caliber. I am going to start A new thread on the art of the rifle section asking for members to provide info on kills with the 223 Cal.

May 22, 2008, 08:23 AM	#106
sureshots Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 2008 Location: Piedmont,NC Posts: 464	Pick your Spot Art, I agree with you 100%. It would amaze everyone to know the number of hunters who just shoot at the whole deer. I think when one begins to pick A spot to shoot your animal it is A good sign one has started to mature as hunter. This is the factor that will result in one shot kills and will often eliminate the need for tracking A wounded animal. Its not always the gun or the caliber, its more the factor of the Man behind it. A bad shot is just that ,reguardless of the Caliber.

May 17, 2008, 01:25 AM	#101
guntotin_fool Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2004 Posts: 1,446	.223 is too small for MOST northern deer, particularly when MOST of the ammo sold over the counter for it is loaded with bullets too light for adequate penetration, and too thinly constructed for big game. Sure you can kill a deer with a .22 hornet or a big bear with a .22 long, its been done, but a lot more run off and die slow than get recovered in my experience. Why risk it, particularly when the platform of an AR is mentioned, that might be a decent battle rifle, but its a sucky deer gun. Now before people label me a Fudd, I have several EBR's including a couple set for Varmints, and I have no problem shooting prairie Dogs with 5.56 and 6x45 because that size round was made for that, Deer rifles should be compact light, east to carry, have enough punch for good clean one shot kills at any angle, not the bare minimum unless you completely promise to never take that bad angle shot, no matter what the size of the deer. Personally I do not want to miss that shot at the 16 point swamp monster because i do not have a gun strong enough to take a 3/4 away angle shot as it walks away. If I was shooting a 223, i could not in good conscience take that shot. My personal favorite deer gun is a savage 99 Eg in 300 savage. Lyman peep sight, and simple leather sling. I can hit deer at 250 yards and in, and with 165 handloads, I can comfortable shoot through a deer from any angle that it provides me.

May 17, 2008, 02:16 AM	#102
Swampghost Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: Florida, east coast Posts: 2,106	guntotin, we had a FL deer taken at camp this year with a .300 Savage. Down here most is up close and personal, we had doe tags and 100# minimum. The 105# doe was hit from about 50-75 feet. IMHO, the 300 Savage was more than enough, almost embarrassing.

May 22, 2008, 07:57 AM	#105
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Again, remember that the odds are that folks like us who spend time at this sort of forum are likely to hunt and shoot more often than the average hunter. YOU may well pick a specific point on your deer. Ol' Joe might just aim somewhere in the brown.