Getting the hots for a .41magnum - Page 3

22-rimfire · August 8, 2019, 09:55 PM

All things being equal, there is a difference if you shoot standard factory loads in both the 44 mag and 41 mag. I don't think it's a huge difference in terms of feel.

jetinteriorguy · August 10, 2019, 04:34 PM

I can't relate recoil compared to a 44mag, but a relatively moderate load in a .41 is about the same as a really hot .357 in my experience. A hot .41, well, it has a lot more recoil in my loads. Moderate in a .41 is a 210-220gr lead/plated bullet around 800-850 fps, and hot for me is a 210gr jacketed bullet around 1450fps. A hot .357 is a 158gr jacketed bullet around 1300fps.

Hanshi · August 10, 2019, 05:33 PM

The real problem with the .41 mag is that when someone gets the .41, he immediately wants to turn in into a "sub caliber" .44 mag. That alone prevents many from enjoying and getting the best use from their .41 mag. I'm a .41 mag fan and consider it the ideal (for myself) whitetail revolver. I've taken plenty with the .357 and the .44 mags so I know what I'm looking at. I found that a good 210 grain JHP at 1380 fps (+ or -) is relatively pleasant shooting, curtains on deer and great to handload. After killing two bucks with a 225 grain swc at 1450 fps, I dropped the load. It didn't kill as well as the JHP although it would be a fine wild hog round. The .41 mag should be enjoyed for what it is and not criticized for what it is not.

I've owned at least three 1970s era S&W M57s and at least two OM black hawks. I let the 4-5/8" Ruger get away from me but still have the 6-1/2" BH. One 6" 57 and a 4" 57 left home but I've still got a fine 6" 57. Recoil doesn't bother me and that includes the .44 mag. I'm also sure I had a NM .41 BlackHawk or two at some point in my muddled past.

Yep, I'm a fan of the .41 and like it a great deal. But I'll never try to turn it into a sub caliber .44 mag or a super sized .357.

rodfac · August 10, 2019, 06:04 PM

Quote:

I found that a good 210 grain JHP at 1380 fps (+ or -) is relatively pleasant shooting,

Hanshi...I gotta say it...you are one tough guy to honestly make that statement. No offense is meant...that level of recoil in my BH's and the Smith really rings my chimes.

I agree, it's a hellofa caliber, versatile, accurate, but definitely a reloader's proposition. Best Regards, Rod

Charlie98 · August 11, 2019, 08:45 AM

Quote:

The .41 mag should be enjoyed for what it is and not criticized for what it is not.

Indeed, and I suspect most .41 fans are the same way. Its just when everyone starts trying to justify it against the .357 or .44 that the cherry picking starts. Personally, I don't think the .41 needs justification for existence, just like the .40S&W doesn't... it is what it is.

Hanshi · August 11, 2019, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodfac

Hanshi...I gotta say it...you are one tough guy to honestly make that statement. No offense is meant...that level of recoil in my BH's and the Smith really rings my chimes.

I agree, it's a hellofa caliber, versatile, accurate, but definitely a reloader's proposition. Best Regards, Rod

Rodfac, recoil from single actions has never bothered me as the revolver rolls up in the hand rather than back into the thumb web like most double action revolvers. that "hot" swc load gets only 18 grains of 2400 so exceeds the velocities usually quoted. I was surprised when I chronographed it. For lead bullet loads I use 18 grains of 2400 in the .41 mag, .44 mag and .45 Colt. Arthritis in my hands/wrists now make it unpleasant to fire many "hot" loads in one sitting, especially the Smiths. The single actions are still not bad.

Charlie98 · August 12, 2019, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Rodfac, recoil from single actions has never bothered me as the revolver rolls up in the hand rather than back into the thumb web like most double action revolvers. that "hot" swc load gets only 18 grains of 2400 so exceeds the velocities usually quoted. I was surprised when I chronographed it. For lead bullet loads I use 18 grains of 2400 in the .41 mag, .44 mag and .45 Colt. Arthritis in my hands/wrists now make it unpleasant to fire many "hot" loads in one sitting, especially the Smiths. The single actions are still not bad.

Oddly enough, I've always considered recoil from my Vaquero (with heavy loads) quite punishing... but roughly the same loads in a .41 Bisley I had, not so much. Same-same with heavy .41 loads in my Smiths vs my Dan Wesson. Grip shape, grip profile, grip material... and, at the end of the day... everyone's individual shooting hand, handle recoil differently.

rodfac · August 14, 2019, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Grip shape, grip profile, grip material... and, at the end of the day... everyone's individual shooting hand, handle recoil differently.

Yep, gotta agree with this as well...for me, the single action grip, as originally devised, handles recoil better than the DA revolver grip as produced by S&W and Colt.

That hump on their DA/SA's, IMHO, was added to facilitate DA use for quick follow up shots. For precision, in my hands at least, it's SA triggers that do better. And any S&W or Colt has a better SA trigger break than my beloved Rugers or Colt SSA's.

Of late, I've been doing a lot of DA shooting with a Smith M18 .22 revolver. More to improve my efforts with a Smith M60 with a 3" tube, (a regular carry piece when headed for the big city). But even a blind squirrel finds the occasional nut as just a few minutes ago, I managed a 1/2" gp for six shots from the 10 yd line on my home range. CCI Sub-Sonic .22 LR HP's filled the charge holes... and you'll no doubt agree that the gun really likes them. Too, I was having a exceptionally "good eyes" day.

All of that blather notwithstanding, the .41 is, was and will continue to be an outstanding caliber for a multitude of legit uses.

Best Regards, Rod Pic of the Smith M18 .22

GaryED50 · August 15, 2019, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brutus

I'm a caliber junkie, I love reloading for all my firearms especially the odd balls.
Never had a .41 mag. so it is starting to call out to me.
Problem is the only one I'm interested in is the Smith 657 pre-lock mountain gun. Probably going to take a while to find but in the meantime I'd like some insight from those who own one.

Ive owned three different 41 magnums two model 57's and 1 nickle 58. (wish I still had that one) Their a great addition to any collection. I'd go for it

Gary

Crunchy Frog · August 15, 2019, 10:40 AM

I was already handloading pistol ammo when a friend offered to sell me a Model 57 that he had gotten in trade. I sort of like having something different and the “lack of power” compared to a .44 Magnum didn’t bother me at all.

The fact that it is a “niche” or “oddball” means that you might be able to get a bargain on the gun or ammo/components. About the only bargain I have gotten at a gun show was on .41 Magnum dies and factory brass.

I’ve kicked around getting a stainless Ruger Bisley Blackhawk to have a second gun in this chambering. I’d really like to have a Marlin 1894 in .41 but those are very dear. I passed up an 1894 Cowboy on Gunbroker that sold for $1,300; I should have snapped that one up.

jetinteriorguy · August 15, 2019, 06:19 PM

Don't count out a Henry BBS in .41 mag. I love mine, with iron sights and my old eyes shooting off hand at 50 yds every shot in a 4" circle is doable. Off bags at 100 keeping everything in 6" is pretty regular. And it packs a pretty good wallop, 210gr XTP hollowpoints at almost 1600fps MV ain't no slouch. If I ever used it for hunting I bet a nice 4 power scope would cut those groups in half.

Charlie98 · August 15, 2019, 07:54 PM

I bought my 1894FG new for something like $429... I wish I would have bought 10 of them. They are worth every penny, however.

I have mine converted to a straight-grip and lever, and have a Williams peep on the receiver. It loves IMR4227 and Cast Performance 250grn FP's... but, really, shoots anything well.

jetinteriorguy · August 16, 2019, 05:29 AM

I wanted a .41 lever and passed on a couple of Marlins while they were still in the $500.00-$600.00 range. Then the price went through the roof and I gave up. A few years later lo and behold Henry came through and I snatched one asap. I liked it so much I had to add one in .357 as well. No regrets. Just so much fun to shoot, and one of the most natural feeling guns I've ever shot.

jumpingeezer · August 17, 2019, 12:57 PM

I never thought of the .41 Mag as something that I just had to have. It always seemed to me to be the perfect solution to a non existent problem. I would have never paid close to retail for a gun in this caliber.

Over a decade ago I came upon two of them at an estate sale for a price that I just couldn't refuse. One was a Ruger Blackhawk and the other was a S&W Model 57. Both were in excellent shape. I figured I could turn them over for a reasonable profit if I couldn't find a place for them in my "arsenal" so I purchased them both.

Like I said, this was over a decade ago and I still own them both and shoot them both regularly. They are now some of my favorite handguns. Accuracy is outstanding with either revolver.

Yes, they are a reloaders proposition if economical shooting is what you are looking for. Factory loads are expensive but components aren't any more expensive than for any other caliber. Starline brass is affordable and available, so is hard cast lead. I love shooting hard cast lead bullets with a stout load of 2400, but my favorite range loads are with a mild load of 7.0gr. Unique with those same bullets. Neither of these loads lead the bore of my revolvers and almost anyone can handle the Unique loads.

I love seeing the astonished look of confidence when a new shooter consistently hits the target with one of those huge guns using those light loads.

I'm still looking for that great deal on a lever gun in this caliber.

MikeG · August 17, 2019, 10:51 PM

I bought a S&W model 57 in 1982 and loved it. Sadly, a few years ago I was forced to sell it during a rough patch.

In June this year, we ran across a Henry Steel Carbine in .41 Magnum, and I got it for Father's day. I still have the reloading dies for .41 magnum and will load for it.

Now I'm considering a handgun in the same caliber, another 57, a Blackhawk or a Redhawk.

RJM52 · August 18, 2019, 06:57 AM

...I'm just "odd"... .41 Magnum is my favorite revolver cartridge and .38 Super is my favorite semi-auto cartridge.... For me they both have astounding accuracy and shootability...

Not sure at this point how many .41s I own... Have them from S&W, Ruger, Freedom Arms, Marlin, Taurus, USFA, TC, and IMI.

One thing not mentioned about accuracy is that almost all of the .41s made are bored the same, unlike many .44s and .45s many of which have way oversize cylinder throats...

As to ammo...there is now more commercial ammo from the Big Three and other smaller companies than ever before in history...and fewer new guns than ever before. If it wasn't for Ruger, Freedom Arms and Henry the .41 would be about dead as S&W only offers one...with "The Hole". But if one wants a nice .41 there are usually a lot for sale on the web, most in real nice condition.

One can now also buy .41 Special brass from Starline and loaded ammo from Reed's Ammo and several others. Target velocity .41 Magnum ammo is also available from HSM, Georgia Arms and several other smaller makers. I don't see where it is any more expensive than buying comparable ammo in .44 Magnum, .44 Special or .45 Colt...

Started this thread over on the CastBoolit Forums...lots of good links and posts for "Cult" members....

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...ad-Data-Center

...a few of mine...

1979 57 blue Class A
1964 57 blue
1980 57 nickel Class A
1980 57 blue
1986 657 stainless
1999 657 Mountain Gun

1964 Model 58 parkerized...

1990s vintage Hunter, serial number 5...

1986 657 4"...

1970s vintage 57 8 3/8"...

...great caliber...just neglected...

Bob

ammo.crafter · August 18, 2019, 09:35 AM

Have been hunting with model 57 6" for years and it is a joy to shoot and extremely accurate.

Remove 1/10th inch from standard 41 Mag brass to form the 41 Special for target practice and non-hunting situations. I believe Starline now sells 41 Special brass.

Lots of bullets for the 41 out there from jacketed to hard cast lead to play with. Do not reload with Blue Dot powder.

This round is definitely a reloader's caliber.

jumpingeezer · August 23, 2019, 05:29 PM

Why trim down a the standard length case? Just load the standard case with a reduced load and have fun with it! That's what I have done for many years and the accuracy has always been great.

No need to over complicate things. KISS!

jetinteriorguy · August 25, 2019, 05:06 PM

I too have never understood a .41 Special. There are no revolvers made for it, so no need for the difference in length to prevent putting a magnum length cartridge in by accident as in the case of either a .38Sp, or a .44Sp. If worried about too much open space in the case, just seat deeper with a reduced load. The .41 Mag was conceived and built from the beginning as a magnum only, not a hopped up special. But hey, whatever floats your boat.

Charlie98 · August 27, 2019, 09:11 AM

Quote:

I too have never understood a .41 Special.

I'm with you on that one... it doesn't really provide any benefit, the cylinder is Magnum length in any event. But, hey, to each his own.

Now... if S&W ever produced that 686 in .41 Special...! Me thinks they would have a line around the block for them, full of rabid .41 fans.

August 10, 2019, 05:33 PM	#53
Hanshi Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2017 Posts: 239	The real problem with the .41 mag is that when someone gets the .41, he immediately wants to turn in into a "sub caliber" .44 mag. That alone prevents many from enjoying and getting the best use from their .41 mag. I'm a .41 mag fan and consider it the ideal (for myself) whitetail revolver. I've taken plenty with the .357 and the .44 mags so I know what I'm looking at. I found that a good 210 grain JHP at 1380 fps (+ or -) is relatively pleasant shooting, curtains on deer and great to handload. After killing two bucks with a 225 grain swc at 1450 fps, I dropped the load. It didn't kill as well as the JHP although it would be a fine wild hog round. The .41 mag should be enjoyed for what it is and not criticized for what it is not. I've owned at least three 1970s era S&W M57s and at least two OM black hawks. I let the 4-5/8" Ruger get away from me but still have the 6-1/2" BH. One 6" 57 and a 4" 57 left home but I've still got a fine 6" 57. Recoil doesn't bother me and that includes the .44 mag. I'm also sure I had a NM .41 BlackHawk or two at some point in my muddled past. Yep, I'm a fan of the .41 and like it a great deal. But I'll never try to turn it into a sub caliber .44 mag or a super sized .357. __________________ Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

August 15, 2019, 07:54 PM	#62
Charlie98 Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2006 Location: Great state of Texas Posts: 1,077	I bought my 1894FG new for something like $429... I wish I would have bought 10 of them. They are worth every penny, however. I have mine converted to a straight-grip and lever, and have a Williams peep on the receiver. It loves IMR4227 and Cast Performance 250grn FP's... but, really, shoots anything well. __________________ _______________ "I have this pistol pointed at your heart!" "That is my least vulnerable spot."

August 18, 2019, 09:35 AM	#67
ammo.crafter Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2006 Location: The Keystone State Posts: 1,970	41 mag Have been hunting with model 57 6" for years and it is a joy to shoot and extremely accurate. Remove 1/10th inch from standard 41 Mag brass to form the 41 Special for target practice and non-hunting situations. I believe Starline now sells 41 Special brass. Lots of bullets for the 41 out there from jacketed to hard cast lead to play with. Do not reload with Blue Dot powder. This round is definitely a reloader's caliber. __________________ "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading". --Thomas Jefferson

August 8, 2019, 09:55 PM	#51
22-rimfire Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2005 Location: Tennessee Posts: 5,323	All things being equal, there is a difference if you shoot standard factory loads in both the 44 mag and 41 mag. I don't think it's a huge difference in terms of feel.

August 10, 2019, 04:34 PM	#52
jetinteriorguy Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2013 Posts: 3,172	I can't relate recoil compared to a 44mag, but a relatively moderate load in a .41 is about the same as a really hot .357 in my experience. A hot .41, well, it has a lot more recoil in my loads. Moderate in a .41 is a 210-220gr lead/plated bullet around 800-850 fps, and hot for me is a 210gr jacketed bullet around 1450fps. A hot .357 is a 158gr jacketed bullet around 1300fps.

August 15, 2019, 10:40 AM	#60
Crunchy Frog Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2008 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 591	I was already handloading pistol ammo when a friend offered to sell me a Model 57 that he had gotten in trade. I sort of like having something different and the “lack of power” compared to a .44 Magnum didn’t bother me at all. The fact that it is a “niche” or “oddball” means that you might be able to get a bargain on the gun or ammo/components. About the only bargain I have gotten at a gun show was on .41 Magnum dies and factory brass. I’ve kicked around getting a stainless Ruger Bisley Blackhawk to have a second gun in this chambering. I’d really like to have a Marlin 1894 in .41 but those are very dear. I passed up an 1894 Cowboy on Gunbroker that sold for $1,300; I should have snapped that one up.

August 15, 2019, 06:19 PM	#61
jetinteriorguy Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2013 Posts: 3,172	Don't count out a Henry BBS in .41 mag. I love mine, with iron sights and my old eyes shooting off hand at 50 yds every shot in a 4" circle is doable. Off bags at 100 keeping everything in 6" is pretty regular. And it packs a pretty good wallop, 210gr XTP hollowpoints at almost 1600fps MV ain't no slouch. If I ever used it for hunting I bet a nice 4 power scope would cut those groups in half.

August 16, 2019, 05:29 AM	#63
jetinteriorguy Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2013 Posts: 3,172	I wanted a .41 lever and passed on a couple of Marlins while they were still in the $500.00-$600.00 range. Then the price went through the roof and I gave up. A few years later lo and behold Henry came through and I snatched one asap. I liked it so much I had to add one in .357 as well. No regrets. Just so much fun to shoot, and one of the most natural feeling guns I've ever shot.

August 17, 2019, 12:57 PM	#64
jumpingeezer Member Join Date: November 19, 2015 Posts: 88	I never thought of the .41 Mag as something that I just had to have. It always seemed to me to be the perfect solution to a non existent problem. I would have never paid close to retail for a gun in this caliber. Over a decade ago I came upon two of them at an estate sale for a price that I just couldn't refuse. One was a Ruger Blackhawk and the other was a S&W Model 57. Both were in excellent shape. I figured I could turn them over for a reasonable profit if I couldn't find a place for them in my "arsenal" so I purchased them both. Like I said, this was over a decade ago and I still own them both and shoot them both regularly. They are now some of my favorite handguns. Accuracy is outstanding with either revolver. Yes, they are a reloaders proposition if economical shooting is what you are looking for. Factory loads are expensive but components aren't any more expensive than for any other caliber. Starline brass is affordable and available, so is hard cast lead. I love shooting hard cast lead bullets with a stout load of 2400, but my favorite range loads are with a mild load of 7.0gr. Unique with those same bullets. Neither of these loads lead the bore of my revolvers and almost anyone can handle the Unique loads. I love seeing the astonished look of confidence when a new shooter consistently hits the target with one of those huge guns using those light loads. I'm still looking for that great deal on a lever gun in this caliber.

August 17, 2019, 10:51 PM	#65
MikeG Senior Member Join Date: April 2, 2002 Location: Falcon Colorado Posts: 256	I bought a S&W model 57 in 1982 and loved it. Sadly, a few years ago I was forced to sell it during a rough patch. In June this year, we ran across a Henry Steel Carbine in .41 Magnum, and I got it for Father's day. I still have the reloading dies for .41 magnum and will load for it. Now I'm considering a handgun in the same caliber, another 57, a Blackhawk or a Redhawk.

August 18, 2019, 06:57 AM	#66
RJM52 Member Join Date: September 17, 2006 Posts: 31	...I'm just "odd"... .41 Magnum is my favorite revolver cartridge and .38 Super is my favorite semi-auto cartridge.... For me they both have astounding accuracy and shootability... Not sure at this point how many .41s I own... Have them from S&W, Ruger, Freedom Arms, Marlin, Taurus, USFA, TC, and IMI. One thing not mentioned about accuracy is that almost all of the .41s made are bored the same, unlike many .44s and .45s many of which have way oversize cylinder throats... As to ammo...there is now more commercial ammo from the Big Three and other smaller companies than ever before in history...and fewer new guns than ever before. If it wasn't for Ruger, Freedom Arms and Henry the .41 would be about dead as S&W only offers one...with "The Hole". But if one wants a nice .41 there are usually a lot for sale on the web, most in real nice condition. One can now also buy .41 Special brass from Starline and loaded ammo from Reed's Ammo and several others. Target velocity .41 Magnum ammo is also available from HSM, Georgia Arms and several other smaller makers. I don't see where it is any more expensive than buying comparable ammo in .44 Magnum, .44 Special or .45 Colt... Started this thread over on the CastBoolit Forums...lots of good links and posts for "Cult" members.... http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...ad-Data-Center ...a few of mine... 1979 57 blue Class A 1964 57 blue 1980 57 nickel Class A 1980 57 blue 1986 657 stainless 1999 657 Mountain Gun 1964 Model 58 parkerized... 1990s vintage Hunter, serial number 5... 1986 657 4"... 1970s vintage 57 8 3/8"... ...great caliber...just neglected... Bob

August 23, 2019, 05:29 PM	#68
jumpingeezer Member Join Date: November 19, 2015 Posts: 88	Why trim down a the standard length case? Just load the standard case with a reduced load and have fun with it! That's what I have done for many years and the accuracy has always been great. No need to over complicate things. KISS!

August 25, 2019, 05:06 PM	#69
jetinteriorguy Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2013 Posts: 3,172	I too have never understood a .41 Special. There are no revolvers made for it, so no need for the difference in length to prevent putting a magnum length cartridge in by accident as in the case of either a .38Sp, or a .44Sp. If worried about too much open space in the case, just seat deeper with a reduced load. The .41 Mag was conceived and built from the beginning as a magnum only, not a hopped up special. But hey, whatever floats your boat.