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Old July 30, 2011, 09:46 AM   #51
Wyosmith
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An Auto loading pistol is a hand gun. It's not a "hands gun"
In over half of the deadly situations that are encountered, one hand will be occupied as the other draws the weapon.
If your chamber is empty, you can be disarmed in the first few seconds of the encounter with a LOT let danger to the enemy. You can also be forced to give ground when you would not want to do so, giving the initiative to the enemy.

All reasons for leaving the chamber empty are just reederic for being politically correct, or for succumbing to illogical social pressure and/or paranoia.

Carry a good pistol as it is designed to be carried, and always obey the 4 safety rules (below) and you'll be fine.

#1 Teat your gun as if it’s loaded ALWAYS!
#2 Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on target, or until you are ready to fire.
#3 Never let your muzzle point at anything you are unwilling to but a bullet into.
#4 Be sure of your target, and what is beyond your target.
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Old July 30, 2011, 12:38 PM   #52
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Can we get an emoticon of a beaten dead horse for threads like this and 9mm v .45 threads?

My response to this thread is yes carry one in the tube forever and always til death do us part.
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Old July 30, 2011, 02:44 PM   #53
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As long as we can use the same emoticon for the oil vs. grease threads. I think it's a swell idea.

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Old July 30, 2011, 03:52 PM   #54
Glenn E. Meyer
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Lucky this isn't my forum or I would ask how long it takes to rack a round to kill and horse and what round to use for a horse.

The OP should search here, THR and Glocktalk for every possible argument.

In fact, some posters have been banned over the heat of this argument.
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Old July 30, 2011, 04:08 PM   #55
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Banned?

Wow. It's just the friggin' internet!

EDIT: Meaning, of course, that it's not worth getting all upset about.

--Wag--
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Old July 30, 2011, 04:09 PM   #56
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I do not plan on throwing the gun at the BD so one in the chamber always!
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Old July 30, 2011, 04:30 PM   #57
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Unfortunately, threads like this too often devolve into silly hyperbole about the One True Method™, or One True Gun™, or One True Caliber™. What works for one person may or may not work for another person. Slamming others simply for not imitating what you do is both arrogant and not helpful.
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Old July 30, 2011, 04:50 PM   #58
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if your carrying a revolver would you leave the chamber under the hammer empty? doubt it.
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Old July 30, 2011, 04:52 PM   #59
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if your carrying a revolver would you leave the chamber under the hammer empty? doubt it.
I would if it were an ancient single action revolver design
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Old July 30, 2011, 05:33 PM   #60
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I don't carry and this is not my field of expertise but if you don't have enough time to rack the slide then do you really have enough time to access the situation and backstop.
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Old July 30, 2011, 05:39 PM   #61
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From earlier posts:

Girls, girls - does anybody ever go to places that don't allow any gun at all like government offices, post office, bars, schools, school ball games, etc.? I know I do. Without a gun I don't cringe in fear and tremble, do you? I just go. Then why would you feel it dangerous or unsafe to have a loaded gun without one in the chamber? Most of you are not Bruce Willis in Die Hard hiding out in the Nagasoni building. Separate the fact from fantasy. Most folks are just on the way to the grocery. For the most part I/you don't really even need a gun; we just want that option just in case. I like having one and feel safer with it in my pocket. Empty chamber makes sense to me. My guns my last resort.

Reality? How many of you civilian ccw folks have had to draw your pistol and use it at lightening speed? Too many people believe they live in the action movies. Be safe, not sorry, because sorry may not get it if your pistol goes off when you don't want it to.

I don't consider myself an expert at anything, but there was a time I kept 3 reloading presses busy - just use to love to shoot. I use to put many rounds down range but life doesn't allow me to do so as much anymore, still I get to the range when possible. I have been through several firearm certification courses. I'm not afraid of a gun - Just not worth the risk.

I haven't had a flat tire on my vehicle in many years. I carry a spare tire. I probably don't need one, but I still carry one just in case. I carry a gun just in case as a last resort. I want the option and its my right in the USA (so far). So I carry because I want to. Based on my history the odds I will need to draw and fire at lightening speed with no time to rack the slide are very remote. The possibility of an AD is unthinkable. With an empty chamber my odds of having an AD are near zero.

In all the years I've carried I have never had to pull my firearm and point it at anybody and pray I don't. If I felt in more danger or in worse situations I might do things differently. I feel pretty safe with the chamber empty in a gun where legal to carry - I try to separate the real probability from the fantasy.

Somebody said: If you have a gun, loaded mag, empty chamber, you don’t have a gun you have a stone. That’s nonsense. A stone is a stone, a gun is a gun. You can what if, what if, until you puke. What if 10 drug crazed bikers carrying swords attack you suddenly dropping out of a tree on your head and they cut one of your arms off and you can’t rack the slide and so on and so on. Come on, your stuck in a Steven Segall movie.

To the revolver post: A revolver is a whole different device. No you don’t need an empty chamber unless its single action and no transfer bar safety.

If any of you narcs or fantasy narcs working on the Mexican border feel they need to chamber a round in their pistol and stick it in their britches - have at it.

Last edited by tenusdad; July 30, 2011 at 06:03 PM.
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Old July 30, 2011, 06:14 PM   #62
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If you dont carry a SD gun with one in the chamber they you might as well not carry one at all. NO TIME to rack slides in fractions of seconds .
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Old July 30, 2011, 06:18 PM   #63
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my favorite line in the new true grit movie was when cogburn was in the court room. "if it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot!"
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Old July 30, 2011, 06:33 PM   #64
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LOL, Bridges was awesome.
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Old July 30, 2011, 06:46 PM   #65
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Can we get an emoticon of a beaten dead horse for threads like this and 9mm v .45 threads?
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Old July 30, 2011, 07:03 PM   #66
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Hahaha. That is AWESOME!!!

Make sure your skilled whichever way you roll, and keep on truck'n
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Old July 31, 2011, 12:27 AM   #67
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Clint Smith...

Noted tactics instructor & combat veteran; Clint Smith put it best;

"If you look like food, you will be eaten."

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Old July 31, 2011, 05:41 PM   #68
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Several advantages for chamber carry plus a few disadvantages.

1) Simplicity. No need to add another step to get the weapon in action.

2) Immediate first shot in the shortest time period, especially from retention position (that is grabbing distance.)

3) No need for two hands to chamber. You may have one hand hurt or busy and not be able to use two hands. Grappling with an attacker also makes chambering with two hands rather tough. Opponent may slam you to the ground, or grab the weapon, or just punch you while you try to chamber a round.

4) When under pressure you might short stroke the action and jam the weapon.

The downside is that if you forget the gun is loaded you can pull the trigger and have a AD/ND (but then, just KYFFOTFT till the weapon is on target.) Yes there are AD/NDs every year. No doubt many have their weapons chamber loaded, but then many are ‘cleaning’ their weapons and well, who knows what state their weapons was really in.

Now chamber empty (C3) has a few advantages.

1) A gun snatch will give you a few seconds for the BG to react (you hope) to get the weapon back.

2) If you have kids, and the slide is hard to rack, it's less chancy of they get the gun somehow (but then I feel you should just pick the gun up, ok.)

3) If your gun is not drop safe, then chamber empty is the best way to carry.

4) No safe way to carry the weapon (lack of holster, poor holster, etc..)

5) If you tend to take your gun out and play with it instead of keeping it holstered then C3 might be a better way to carry. (not kidding, there are people that do mess with their weapons like that.)

Overall, chamber empty is an inferior technique for most people. There are some where it serves a purpose like having the weapon hidden around the house and you have time to chamber a round, but for most, chamber loaded is the better technique for a defensive handgun.

Now why is it inferior? Because of the extra steps one has to take that mostly require two hands under very stressful conditions. Kind of like the technique of fanning a SA revolver.

Is chamber empty safer to carry? Not if you keep the weapon in a proper holster that covers the trigger guard and has adequate retention (in case of a fall or such) and don/doff with the weapon in the holster. That way the trigger cannot be pulled in any way.

Deaf
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Old July 31, 2011, 06:37 PM   #69
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To each his own, you guy's carry the way you feel safest, I always carry one in the chamber, and have been doing this for over 30 years, with no negative results. If you think you will have time to react, and rack one in the chamber while in shock (because shock is what you will be in) good for you, because the average incident/attack is going to happen so quick it's going to be hard enough just to think about whats happening. Give it some thought!
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Old July 31, 2011, 10:31 PM   #70
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Just for fun, try this story for all you "you're gonna die if you don't carry in the chamber" fellers:

A friend of mine recently had an AD at a fancy coffee shop. Fortunately, the only thing that was injured was the sofa he was sitting on and his pride. But he lost his CFP because of it and now he can't carry concealed. Seems to me he's at an even greater disadvantage now vs. those who choose to rack a slide.

I think either method is a perfectly viable carry option. The key to either is to practice and train continually.
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Old July 31, 2011, 10:41 PM   #71
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A friend of mine recently had an AD at a fancy coffee shop.
An AD? really? So the gun "just went off" all by it ownself? Broken part? Poor/no holster? How did this "accident" occur? Tell us that we might avoid a similar situation......
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Old July 31, 2011, 11:22 PM   #72
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Just for fun, try this story for all you "you're gonna die if you don't carry in the chamber" fellers:
So, is this story real, or a dramatization?

Quote:
A friend of mine recently had an AD at a fancy coffee shop. Fortunately, the only thing that was injured was the sofa he was sitting on and his pride. But he lost his CFP because of it and now he can't carry concealed. Seems to me he's at an even greater disadvantage now vs. those who choose to rack a slide.
Make of gun? make, and type of holster? Was it in his pocket and he reached in it for something? Was the gun "cocked & locked? Was it in his pocket along with keys, or other items? Lots of details left out of what looks a lot like a "general" story line that didn't really happen!

My uncle's neighbor's cousin's friend heard of a guy who kenw someone that...
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Old July 31, 2011, 11:28 PM   #73
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Methinks mehbee someone along the line has confuse the first and fourteenth letters of the aplphabet........
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Old August 1, 2011, 12:28 AM   #74
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Don't really have a dog in this fight, but I usually do what the police or others do... and they carry one in the pipe. I figure I'm going to be nervous if I'm ever in a situation that I can't remove myself from that requires my gun, and I like to keep things simple.

Also, the manufacturers usually have a specific carry method in mind during thr design process. I carry my Sig P238 cocked and locked, because that is how it was designed to be used. My H&K P2000, popular with the border patrols down south, is also meant to be carried with one in the pipe, and the long trigger pull from the LEM trigger is adequate safety in the right holster. My CZ-75B will be cocked and locked once I satisfy myself it is reliable next weekend. However, for whatever reason my Dad doesn't feel comfortable with a round chambered in his carry guns, and it's worth it to him to sacrifice a bit of speed and an extra round for the security of an empty chamber. No skin off my back, and he hasn't had any problems because of it.

I was nervous having a round chambered at first, but once I realized that I had well-engineered firearms that required action on my part to discharge, I stopped worrying. As long as I follow the gun safety rules, I feel like I'm not incurring any risk that cannot be properly managed.
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Old August 1, 2011, 01:35 AM   #75
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Lots of details left out of what looks a lot like a "general" story line that didn't really happen!
Always interesting to see the arrogance. The story was real. So is a slew of others that haven't turned out as rosy. Honestly I could care less that you are unhappy left without all of the juicy details as I have no intention of providing them, -- nor am I offended that you don't believe me. Believe how you wish. Carry how you wish. Each mode of carry has it's risks and rewards. Only you can determine which rewards are most important to you and which risks you are willing to take. Only you can decide whether you will scoff at or respect another for choosing different risks and rewards than yourself.

And please jimbob - let's not get into semantics on the AD/ND thing. Do we need to start calling car accidents car negligents?
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