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Old July 29, 2011, 03:39 PM   #26
jlwatts3
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I always carry with 1 in the chamber.
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Old July 29, 2011, 03:51 PM   #27
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Any firearm that is intended for immediate use should have a round chambered. Unless the firearm in question would be a liabilty with a round in the chamber.

We all know that our level of confidence and competence with a particular firearm, along with familiarity and experience, will be the limiting factor in it's usage.

I wouldn't carry a 1911 for a number of reasons that are my own, but it is no doubt a good pistol for ccw. It is a matter of confidence in the mechanical thumb saftey, and the grip saftey as well. With that I have been carrying for well over a decade using DAO or DA/SA pistols. The latter is preferred but former is tolerated.

My way of reasoning is that a pistol is for getting me to my longarm in waiting. Meaning that it is thereas a stop gap in an emergency. It must have a round in the chamber.

You will not be able to determine the time or place of an attack. It will never be where you have an advantage. The predator is going to search you out by how weak and unaware you appear to be. He will pick when and where and how. He is going to mitigate any kind of response he may anticipate. This automatically will put you at a disadvantage as you must react, so it is that you must minimize and fool proof any measures you have ready to deal with such a situation.

The first order is to make sure you can get that pistol in action effectivley. Messing about with switches and other things only complicate the task. The easier it is to go from holstered to bang is what you want. Count the steps and think out the problem, knowing that the whole time you are behind the curve in regard to the attack. It isn't that you cannot surprise them in a counter attack, but that they may be more competent than ones imagination may wish to believe. In that we want to make it very simple.

I can understand not having a round in the chamber if it is not anticipated to be needed. I keep longarms magazine loaded and chamber empty with the saftey off. This way it is as safe as it needs to be and I can get it into action with an economy of motion. If needed the longarms can be tossed around without fear of discharge, for example. Maybe your partner is the second part of a twin engine of mayhem when an intruder decides your home looks nice, I'd never toss a person a rifle or shotgun with a round chambered. Bad ju-ju me thinks. I am wandering here though.

Back to the point. Since the bad guy will decide to attack you in your weakest moment let us consider something very simple as this.

The bad guy has slipped your notice and though you swore no one was following you, there he is. He has the drop and now you are looking at a crashing right hook that could knock you out... Do you draw the weapon and cycle the action and take the haymaker blow, or do you attempt to block or parry him and then hope to be able to recover and get that pistol ready to shoot? In that same time he may actually be able to hit you a few more times as well and finish you off. If you had just simply had the round in the chamber he would be the one lying on the ground instead most likely.

Do not count on the situation to be suitable to what your manual of arms is. It will never be the way you want it to be. It will be raining, cold, and you will be sick or distracted by personal matters or some other such thing and then it happens. If you must assume, and we must, then we should assume it to be almost the worst we can imagine. Maybe when this guy took a swing you did block the initial blow , but now you discover that he had a lead pipe in his hand and your arm or hand is broken. How now do you get the pistol into the fight now? Have you trained for such circumstances? Will you have time.

Tactics are where you begin to see the short comings of technique and devise ways to improve them. Those that cannot see why a CCW should have one in the chamber have put little thought into tactics or the possibilty that their opponent may actually be superior in abilty or in the least that he may have advantage in his timing of the attack.

Carry as you like. You roll the dice and get what you get. Just try and figure a way to cheat the house and get away with it in a fight.
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Old July 29, 2011, 04:05 PM   #28
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I hope I'm allowed to post links to videos from another site. I like some of the things Lima has to say and this video really does a good job showing why you SHOULD have a round chambered if carrying vs. not.
http://www.youtube.com/user/limalife.../0/syxrpLbaEuY
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Old July 29, 2011, 07:34 PM   #29
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Wow. I didn't know a post count was indicative of knowledge, but I'm not surprised that someone who thinks a gun that isn't chambered is not REALLY a gun would feel this way. I would wager that I have more experience with firearms than 95% of the people who post here, but that's not the issue.

If you want to cherry pick things from what I said and create wild hypothetical situations, then yeah, I don't make much sense. As I said in my original post, the LCP is the ONLY gun I carry unchambered because of the manner in which I carry it AND the situation where I carry it. If you care to even look past my post count and want to know the real reasoning why I choose to carry that one particular gun that way, then you need to read the other thread. If you want to make up wild scenarios and take shots at my experience, character, and knowledge like a middle schooler from behind a computer screen, by all means, carry on. Why even take part in the discussion if you know everything and think anyone that might do something differently for a different reason is an idiot?
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Old July 29, 2011, 07:52 PM   #30
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Valid points, Slugthrower. However, like you, the LCP is my "around the house" weapon. I don't carry it when I'm out and about except for very rare circumstances. I have young children in my home, and a tiny loaded gun that can become unsecured without noticing is not an option for me.

When I am out, I typically carry a G27, G19, or P239 loaded and ready. That may surprise some since I only have ~75 posts.

Say what you will, but there ARE situations where it is totally appropriate to carry un-chambered. Hypothetical situations are just that. There ARE situations where it can be intelligent to do so. I don't know about where everyone else lives, but here there are more kids killed by accidental discharge than there are victims who are killed by an attacker simply because they weren't quick enough. Now, I'm not saying that it's always best to carry without one in the chamber, all I'm saying is that there are times when it is the right thing to do. If anyone disagrees, that's fine, but it doesn't mean I'm wrong or visa versa.
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Old July 29, 2011, 07:55 PM   #31
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I would carry with two in the chamber if it was possible.

that said, yes I carry with 1 in the chamber then a full magazine when carrying a semiautomatic.

I also feel that if the OP or any one else feels more safe to carry with out one in the chamber than leave them be. Do what you feel more comfortable with. He is all ready way ahead of the typical American in that he has a weapon on him.
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Old July 29, 2011, 08:25 PM   #32
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My CCW class instuctor (Deputy Sherrif) was asked during the class, if you were allowed to carry with a round chambered. The deputy responded, "There wouldn't be much point in carrying it (the gun) if you didn't (have a round chambered)." Every time I step out the door, I chamber one.
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Old July 29, 2011, 08:54 PM   #33
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We are talking pocket gun here. How important it is to have it chambered when sitting in the car? It's almost impossible to pull it out quickly so getting it ready with high SA is possible. I have Taurus TCP and for now I carry it not chambered. I'm carrying concealed for few days only (I had open carry license for many years) so all of it is new to me. I'm testing it how the gun behaves in the pocket or in IWB holster to get feel for it. It's hot now but later I will carry one of my Glocks and those will be chambered. My job is really gymnastic so all of it is necessary to be sure that the rig is working.
I'm also watching if I can keep finger of the trigger(selfcheck)
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Old July 29, 2011, 08:54 PM   #34
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I'm not arguing against carrying with one in the chamber, but this guy does pretty well without one racked http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUd2F...eature=related
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Old July 29, 2011, 09:10 PM   #35
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I always keep one in the chamber of my M&P 40, whether it's on my waist or on my nightstand. YMMV
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Old July 29, 2011, 09:48 PM   #36
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Quote:
I would carry with two in the chamber if it was possible.
Not that it would be an improvement, but ......

http://bondarms.com/

Quote:
Every time I step out the door, I chamber one.
How's about this idea: Stop futzing with it: leave it chambered, in the holster, unless you are cleaning it or drilling/dryfiring or actually shooting it.
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Old July 29, 2011, 11:05 PM   #37
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Ummm, yeah always one in the chamber unless i'm cleaning it, just fired the last round in the magazine or if i'm doing a random function check.

Always hope for the best but plan for the worst as my sig says!
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Old July 29, 2011, 11:26 PM   #38
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Condition III, loaded pistol mag-empty chamber....

To me, to carry a concealed firearm with a empty chamber is up to the owner/CC license holder. Some may feel it's safe or prudent, others may not.

I think it's a format or policy that the license holder or gun owner should choose & their ideas or plans should be respected.
It is safer for some loaded weapons, but most modern firearms will be fine as long as you keep your firing hand fingers off the trigger until you are ready & able to shoot.
To my knowledge, the IDF(Israeli Defense Forces) & other security/LE units in Israel use the "condition III" method on a regular basis w/o incident.

While I was a lower enlisted MP in the US Army, our SOP was to carry 1911a1 .45acp pistols & the new M9 9x19mm sidearms with loaded magazines/empty chambers.

When I do armed details or carry a concealed firearm, I load the weapon with a round in the chamber too but I can see the value in using a condition III carry style.
It could be very safe or practical for a home defense weapon to prevent ADs or careless use by anyone untrained but as I stated, it's up to the firearm's owner.
It's a lot like motorcycle riders or owners who can choose to wear or not wear a safety helmet.
Let those who ride decide.
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Old July 29, 2011, 11:39 PM   #39
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It may never happen but there are too many things that can go wrong and you will never have a chance to chamber a round before its to late. You are fighting off an attacker, injured in one arm, hundreds of scenerios where you cant chamber a round. I will always carry with one in the chamber. If others want to carry without one in the chamber, fine, but I dont think its a good idea.
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Old July 29, 2011, 11:50 PM   #40
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HOW MANY REINCARNATIONS IS THIS THREAD GOING TO HAVE???

An empty chamber is an empty gun!!! Useless when seconds count!!!
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Old July 29, 2011, 11:52 PM   #41
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Old July 29, 2011, 11:56 PM   #42
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I'm carrying a S&W 469 now, so Yes +1
When I carry my RIA CS +1
When I carry my my my wife's LS 60 yes all 5 of them
When I carry my Armscor 200 or 206 yes all 6 of them

I think you get the Idea here
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Old July 29, 2011, 11:56 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slugthrower:
The bad guy has slipped your notice and though you swore no one was following you, there he is. He has the drop and now you are looking at a crashing right hook that could knock you out... Do you draw the weapon and cycle the action and take the haymaker blow, or do you attempt to block or parry him and then hope to be able to recover and get that pistol ready to shoot? In that same time he may actually be able to hit you a few more times as well and finish you off. If you had just simply had the round in the chamber he would be the one lying on the ground instead most likely.

Do not count on the situation to be suitable to what your manual of arms is. It will never be the way you want it to be. It will be raining, cold, and you will be sick or distracted by personal matters or some other such thing and then it happens. If you must assume, and we must, then we should assume it to be almost the worst we can imagine. Maybe when this guy took a swing you did block the initial blow , but now you discover that he had a lead pipe in his hand and your arm or hand is broken. How now do you get the pistol into the fight now? Have you trained for such circumstances? Will you have time.
I wasn't going to comment on this thread since I just left a comment on the other thread that is basically a duplicate of this one, but this entry made me!

A neighbor was walking down our street for exercise & listening to music on his Ipod. He had earlier noticed a guy that made him feel uneasy. Later in his walk the same guy jumped out from a bush and hit him on his head with a pistol. The thug had circled around on an adjacent road and hid in the bush because he knew my neighbor was distracted by his Ipod. The neighbor had no chance to defend himself. He had been caught completely off guard. He doesn't carry and all he could do is give up everything he was carrying. He said it happened so fast he had no time to respond to it. He is lucky to be alive. 8 stitches is all the damage the perp did. BUT I keep hearing the same thing after an attack "It happened so fast. I just didn't see it coming & I had no time to react." We can never assume we will have even a second to react before we are attacked. Every millisecond counts when we are in a fight for our lives.
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Old July 29, 2011, 11:58 PM   #44
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If you do not carry one in the chamber..You better be part of the Israeli Mossad cause if not..Just don't carry. It'll be psychologically damaging to your loved ones to know you actually had a chance.

Chamber it. Cock and lock it. Always. I don't see why someone wouldn't?


Sadly 80% of the time my father carries Israeli.


I still don't like it. Never will.
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Old July 30, 2011, 12:01 AM   #45
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distracted by his Ipod.
" 'Pod People " ......... denizens of the the Condition White World.
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Old July 30, 2011, 04:20 AM   #46
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There are very few guns manufactured in my lifetime that I would not feel comfortable carrying around with one in the chamber. My personal carry is cocked and locked at all times. If your friend is not comfortable carrying it with one chambered he needs to find one that he can. Racking the slide is an aggressive movement that can get you shot and can imply you took the time to reason shooting someone rather then acting to defend your life. Its a bad policy. Now if someone breaks into your home the racking of a pump shotgun followed by "I'm armed get out of my home I have called the police" can make a BG run for it.
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Old July 30, 2011, 06:18 AM   #47
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If you carry your gun in a proper holster that covers the trigger, there is no reason to carry a gun without a round in the chamber.
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Old July 30, 2011, 08:21 AM   #48
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Walther PPK/S owners soon learn that charging the pistol without misfeeding the first round requires pulling the slide back with great force to make certain that the slide has reached its farthest point in rearward travel. Why? Otherwise, the extractor won't pick up the top round properly-----case rim must fit within extractor groove.

The Kahr pistols are so finicky that the company instructs the owner to charge the pistol by locking back the slide, inserting mag, and then releasing slide.

My LCP will misfeed the first round if the slide is not retracted fully. Remember that the recoil spring on small pistols is short in length and will be more difficult to compress in the last fraction of an inch of rearward travel. Also,
smaller slides have much less gripping surface.
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Old July 30, 2011, 09:24 AM   #49
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Haven't read the entire thread but really, having a gun unloaded is simply less effective than optimal.

Why would someone want less than optimal in a life threatening or otherwise dangerous situation? It would be like sky diving with a parachute that is too small.

In a SD situation, every little action you have to do only adds to the complexity of your defense scenario and when adrenaline and tensions are high, etc., you want to minimize how many actions you have to perform before taking the shot. Hell, it's hard enough just to draw the firearm and present it appropriately, getting on target without having to also remember to rack the slide or, god forbid, insert a magazine AND rack the slide AND. . . .

I've seen too many occasions just at the range on a lazy shooting day where someone failed to rack the slide back far enough to strip a round off the magazine (okay it was me ) and the gun, of course, was not ready to fire. Can you imagine that happening while being charged by some thug intent on bashing your head in?

Or imagine 40 other ways this scenario could go South on you.

I have a buddy who carries a Glock of some flavor with an empty chamber. He showed me what he has in mind as far as drawing and racking the slide in one smooth motion and I still have my doubts. I expressed them to him but he's determined that it's not a problem for him. We agreed to disagree.

--Wag--
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Old July 30, 2011, 09:33 AM   #50
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Once more into the tactical echo chamber ...

Anyone considering carrying a gun should carry it in the way that is best for them, or the gun will end up not being carried. Threads like this are good opportunities to discuss the pros and cons of different carry methods, and types of guns, and even calibers.

Unfortunately, threads like this too often devolve into silly hyperbole about the One True Method, or One True Gun, or One True Caliber. What works for one person may or may not work for another person. Slamming others simply for not imitating what you do is both arrogant and not helpful.
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