Are all Mossberg 500s "clunky"?

[amd6547]

So, with no personal experience, you regurgitate a "he said she said".
My Mossberg 500 has been in my possession for 20 years, and it was very well used (abused) security company riot gun when I bought it, for $75.
It is old enough that it has a metal safety.
Never an issue.
The only issue I've ever had with my 500 is the ejector screw loosening, which caused failure to eject. So, after 20 years of use, I put a drop of loktite on it and tightened it down. Problem solved.
Of course, if the 870 needs a new ejector, you are likely going to the gunsmith, or shipping it to Remington.

[Rifletom]

I have and shoot both. Two 500's, one in 12ga, the other is a 20ga. Both field guns. Also have a 1975 Wingmaster 20ga. Funny, all three dust clays, drop upland birds and none seem to be falling apart. Imagine that! Just take a little care of them, they'll last forever. Pump SG's are like tanks. They withstand.

[Targa]

I really can not say, just reports from others, I shoot better guns.

lol....ok..

[SHR970]

jaguarxk120 I've got three Mossy's and two of them are over 20 yo and have a lot of hard use. Nothing has broken on them yet, and the 835 has seen a lot of 3 1/2" shells in its life. Your barbers, uncles, wifes, hairdressers, info. is worth what you paid for it.

And I also have two Fabarms and a F.A.I.R. in my safe. They are certainly nicer guns but don't drop the birds and better.

[lefteye]

When did Remington start making "stamped" receivers? I'd like to see evidence that the any of my five 12 ga. 870's have a "stamped" receiver.

[jaguarxk120]

I to would like to know by what process Remington use's to stamp out those 870 receivers. Might as well add the 1100 model to.

By the way Ithaca receivers start out as a 11 pound block of alloy steel and when they come out of the CNC machining center they are almost completely
finished.

[GarandTd]

If the safety on the m500 bothers you, save a few bucks and buy a Mav88 with the crossbolt safety.

[Don Fischer]

The first really nice shotgun I ever had was a Mossberg 500. Back in 1968? I've had several since then and haven't a complaint about any of them. I'd say this, the stock and fore end definitely fill my hand better than the 870. I've only had one 870 and while a good gun, just didn't feel right in my hands, gave it to my son. Back in those days all I shot pretty much were pumps. I've still got a pump today. Old Ithica mod 37, corn cob forend, in 16ga. Never shoot it but won't get rig of it either. Actually is I went back to pump's today I'd probably get a Mossberg 500.

[Gats Italian]

I sure would like to know how Remington put all those machining marks inside of my TB trap 870?

And yes the trigger group is a high quality die casting, finished very nicely.

A Mossberg 500 aluminum receiver is of some unknown alloy with a trigger group made of plastic!

The safety is on top of the receiver, if it falls off the gun will not fire, some have lost game due to that ergo correct safety.

Yes the 500's work, but the Remington's and other gun makes and models work so much better.

If you are shooting trap it is still one shot at a time, so your pump gun is used as a single!

Lol. Unknown alloy? It's aluminum alloy. However the lockup is all steel so what's the issue again? The nylon trigger group has not been problematic, but if it bothers, the 590A1's is made from aluminum alloy.

If concerned, the safety button screw can be blue or red loctited in. Non-issue.

You can keep your Remmies. My pump shotguns are for fighting. I don't need a Freedom Group cheapened bird gun poseur in that role.

From the archaic crossbolt safety, to the shell lifter that's always in the way, to the PITA process to extend the mag capacity, to it requiring a gunsmith for what are end user repairs for Mossberg owners, Remington's are by far the worse shotgun.

[Targa]

Remington is by far the worst shotgun? I like my Mossberg and all but I would be surprised if anyone buys into that claim. The member you quoted admitted to not having any first hand experience with the Mossberg and that he was just parroting what he has heard about it.
I am going to assume that you have some experience with the Remington and aren't doing the same thing as the person you quoted. The cross bolt safety? I like the Mossbergs better but ultimately it's not a big deal. Shell lifter? Yep, the Remington's does get in the way but it doesn't make it a bad choice. Gunsmith? I'm still waiting to see that guy after 17 years of pretty hard use on my 870.
Like I have said, their both really gun guns and do what they are suppose to and I am glad I don't have to choose one over the other.

[Gats Italian]

I'm left handed with big mitts and my sons are right handed with nearly as big mitts, so you couldn't give any of us a free "modern" 870.

We all hate the loading port obstruction called a shell lifter on the 870.

[Targa]

Honestly, I don't remember the last time I ever used the safety on either one.

[cdbeagle]

If anyone thinks an 870 Express is better quality than a 500 they are crazy. I don't have a dog in this hunt, don't care for pumps. I've sold a ton of both and the only difference I've seen is an Exprees will develop rust much quicker but it doesn't affect function. The Wingmaster is a whole different ballgame, apples to oranges.

[NYRanger]

Mossberg 500 slide action has considerable play as compared with Remington 870, however it is par for the course with 500s.

[lefteye]

I've never touched a Mossberg and will not criticize them. I have had Remington 870 shotguns for nearly 50 years, and currently own five of them. They are RELIABLE, accurate, easy to shoot and easy to operate. My 870 with a rifled barrel and good scope let me take a 10 point Iowa buck running and quartering away at 125 yards. I enjoyed many years of very successful waterfowl hunting with an 870. I trust my 870 Home Defense laying under my bed to save my wife and myself. I have owned much nicer double barrel and over/under shotguns but I have never compared them to an 870 simply because they are not practically comparable.

[sixgunnin]

they are all cheaply made guns.

+1.
The Remington 870 is about the same price. I got a new one for $160

[Kilrain]

Mossberg 500 slide action has considerable play as compared with Remington 870, however it is par for the course with 500s.

That is by design. The 500/590 series has an aluminum receiver however the action bars are steel. Unlike an 870, in which the action bars are rigidly mounted to the action tube, the 500/590 has action bars that are "sprung." Refer to the photos:





They are like this because of the dissimilar materials, steel vs aluminum. It prevents the steel action bars from cutting into the aluminum alloy receiver when the typical, over exuberant, shooter twists and torques the forend during the operation cycle.

Interestingly enough, the Mossberg 500/590 series is, essentially, a product improved version of the Remington Model 31, which preceded the 870 as Remington's pump shotgun. The 870 came into being due to the rising cost of the machining associated with the Model 31 and to take advantage of newer materials and construction processes, such as the cast trigger plate and stampings in it. It also allowed Remington to essentially seize the pump shotgun market from Winchester who'd dominated with it's Model 12 for 30+ years based on the perceived quality and feel of the 870 at a lower price point than the expensive(to manufacture), all machined Model 12.

But that's enough of that.....

And before someone claims I'm a fanboy, I own two 870s, and have owned many others, one of which I carry every day at work. I also own a number of 500/590 variants. And a Model 31 riot gun from Kansas City PD from the 40s/50s.

[15plus1]

Wanna talk clunky?

http://www.iacshotguns.com/982pump.html

Got one of these as a first shotgun just to try out the platform, but I'll be darned if it doesn't work.

Sounds like a geo prism with a broken camshaft when it racks and the welds joining the action bars to the forend look like chewing gum.

Goes bang though, and nothing has broken yet.

[Wyosmith]

Well guys, here's the gunsmith's take:I fix guns as well as build custom guns it's how I earn most of my living and how I have earned most of my living for most of my life.
I will be 61 in a few weeks.

I have had to repair more 870s than any other pump shotgun in my life.
Now does that prove it's not a good gun?

NO!

One thing that is in play with this fact is that the 870 outnumbers every other pump shotgun. They probably outnumbers 4-5 other competitors combined.
So it had a greater chance of needed repair just because it's the gun that gets the most use.

But the other side of the coin is the argument that it is NOT unfailing. That is clearly not the case.

I have had to repair about 15 Mossberg 500s in the last 30 years. One had a defective shell latch that came undersized from the factory. 6 had broken safety buttons (I think they should not use plastic from them, and the after market metal ones are a worthwhile up-grade) The rest all had the same problem, with the spot welds coming loose that connect the pump slide to the action bar mount. Easy to fix by braising.

In comparison, I fixed five 870s in 2016 alone. Most years I fix 3-4.

With all that said, the one pump shotgun that in my humble opinion is the best of all is the Ithica 37.
Why?
I started gunsmithing when I was 12 years old. I did it as a passionate hobby for some years, and for most of the years between 12 and 61 (49 years) I have done it as a full time business, except for some years I was in the military.

Guess how many mechanical issues I have had to repair on M37s. (I mean other than broken wood.)
ZERO. NOT ONE. NONE! Not EVER!

So as a gunsmith, I have to rate it as the best of them all.

I used to own one, and I wish I had never sold it.
I do own a Mossberg and I like it fine and my wife owns a 20 ga M500 also.
We have never had a problem with either, so I am not in grief over the now-gone M37.
But I sure wish I still had it

[Rifletom]

Wyosmith,
That was a great read. Thanks for posting that. What was/is the most common repair that 870's require? Possibly the ejector? Thanks.

[Wyosmith]

Mostly shell latches and action arms. Nearly always related to timing issues that allow the shell to drop on the lifter too early.

Extractors and ejectors seem to be fine.
I have never needed to replace one on an 870

Also have seen 2 where the trigger/disconnector were malfunctioning. Easy to fix, but hard to get Remington to sell parts anymore.

[Rifletom]

Thanks for the reply Wyosmith. Appreciated.

[Screwball]

Originally Posted by Wyosmith

With all that said, the one pump shotgun that in my humble opinion is the best of all is the Ithica 37.

True...



In regards to Mossberg verses Remington... prefer Remington. Had both, and recently sold my 500 JIC2. It was a nice gun, but bought it for a compact shotgun... so didn't mind how crappy the action felt. Got a KSG (mainly for fun, as was the 500's purpose), so decided it could go... as I really didn't have a need for a pistol grip shotgun.

I've shot Remington shotguns for years. Hunted with 11-87s, but my predominate defensive shotgun is my 870 Police. I prefer the controls, and do like the way you can empty the chamber without sending a round out of the tube (works of the Ithaca the same way, which is why that above pictured gun is my backup to my Remington). While the Mossberg safety is nice for lefties, I can manipulate the Remington safety a lot faster than the Mossberg.

With designs, I love the Ithaca. Mine was a Ducks Unlimited Guide Gun (actually an 87), which I picked up to use the stock for my father's identical shotgun. His had a crack in the wrist, so I swapped the wood. Stripped both shotguns when I did that to make sure they were cleaned... and I did hold the stripped receiver by itself. Reminded me of a stripped Garand receiver... something built to last, when quality was a big deal to manufacturers. I do like the bottom eject, and I sort of sided with the KSG, since it uses a design heavily influenced by the Ithaca 37.

When push comes to shove all these shotguns will work for you. Hell, my IAC 97 or Century PW87 will work if I needed to use them. Mossberg or Remington... really comes down to personal preference. Glock or M&P, 9mm or .40, paper or plastic, insert any other debate.

[jaguarxk120]

Screwball you have to get a post war Ithaca, the stocks are different and the receiver is a little shorter, 2 3/4 inch actions.
They handle very well coming up very smoothly and point as a gun should.

[Screwball]

Originally Posted by jaguarxk120

Screwball you have to get a post war Ithaca, the stocks are different and the receiver is a little shorter, 2 3/4 inch actions.

It is a post war... 1990.

In regards to 2.75" guns, I prefer 3" capable shotguns when I can get them. But it really came down to the Ducks Unlimited is a 3" model... so what I had to work with.

Stock was from Boyds, barrel was shortened/threaded for Remington choked by Rose Action Sports (also did the new beads), and Robar did the NP3 Plus.