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Old September 3, 2017, 06:39 PM   #1
bricz75
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Savage 11 vs. Browning A-bolt III. Which is more reliable and durable?

I noticed the two rifles costing the same amount after rebate. Which is more reliable and durable?

I know the Savage 11 a typical Savage, unlike the budget Axis series. If I'm not mistaken though, the Browning A-Bolt III falls into the budget category, but is one of the more upscale of budget rifles.
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Old September 3, 2017, 07:29 PM   #2
Art Eatman
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If it's for hunting (other than prairie dogs), you'll have to ask your grand-children.
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Old September 3, 2017, 09:25 PM   #3
bricz75
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If it's for hunting (other than prairie dogs), you'll have to ask your grand-children.
No. For hunting and plinking, including running steel-cased ammo through it. And it may accidentally be dropped on the ground.
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Old September 3, 2017, 09:40 PM   #4
Kachok
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I own several Savages and a Browning A-Bolt. I cannot say that either appears flimsy in any way, but if I had to nit pick I would say the Savage two lug action is tougher then the smaller (extruded steel) three lug on the A-Bolt while the conventional trigger on the Browning has one less moving part then the Savage.
A few other things to consider.
Savages are MUCH easier to customize.
Browning makes a much better synthetic stock.
The Savage Accutrigger is better then best Browning has to offer.
The fit and finish on the Browning is clearly better.
All of my Savages shoot factory ammo better then my A-Bolt but the A-Bolt is every bit as accurate as any of the Savages with handloads.
The magazine in my Browning loads and feels much nicer then the Savages.
Handle both as see what you like better.
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Old September 3, 2017, 09:49 PM   #5
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Savage 11 vs. Browning A-bolt III. Which is more reliable and durable?
Dang man... you will need 10,000 round torture test to show any real difference between them. I've never seen a hunting rifle worn out. Abused yes, worn out, no. I'd pick which ever one you feel more comfortable with.

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Old September 3, 2017, 09:54 PM   #6
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My only gripes with the Savages have been related to their synthetic stocks, the stock on my Model 10 270 WSM warped and is stuck that way, has not stopped it from shooting good though, and my 110 30-06 tore a chunk off the very soft recoil pad. No gripes with the Browning other then I absolutely have to handload for it because the best any factory load shoots around 5" at 100 yards, but Sierra Prohunter/H380 handloads shoot reliable cloverleafs and even pulled a bughole group at 100.
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Old September 3, 2017, 10:33 PM   #7
bricz75
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Originally Posted by Kachok View Post
I own several Savages and a Browning A-Bolt. I cannot say that either appears flimsy in any way, but if I had to nit pick I would say the Savage two lug action is tougher then the smaller (extruded steel) three lug on the A-Bolt while the conventional trigger on the Browning has one less moving part then the Savage.
A few other things to consider.
Savages are MUCH easier to customize.
Browning makes a much better synthetic stock.
The Savage Accutrigger is better then best Browning has to offer.
The fit and finish on the Browning is clearly better.
All of my Savages shoot factory ammo better then my A-Bolt but the A-Bolt is every bit as accurate as any of the Savages with handloads.
The magazine in my Browning loads and feels much nicer then the Savages.
Handle both as see what you like better.
Thank you. This is just the kind of post I was hoping for. I'm a little surprised to hear the magazine and fit and finish is better on the Browning. If I'm not mistaken, the A-Bolt is their budget rifle. I'm wondering how much nicer their X-bolt model is.

As an aside, a couple of Weatherby rifles were tested by Gun Tests magazine in the same shootout review. The cheaper one actually beat the more expensive one.
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Old September 4, 2017, 01:06 AM   #8
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You are welcome bricz75, and yes the X-Bolts really are that nice but make sure you like the feel of them first, they are a very rounded/slim design which feels very different in the hand then a traditional sporter like a Ruger 77 or Weatherby. I personally like a slim stock but I am not a large man.
Savage magazines are kind of their weak point, the external magazines are just marginal and their blind (internal) magazines are really bad, so much so that I never load mine unless I am hunting and I just drop feed them at the range. My A-Bolt II has my favorite magazine design which is the flip down detachable (sadly not on the A-Bolt III) Ruger and Browning's rotary mags take second place, a hinged floorplate blind mag like on my Winchester 70 are nice too.
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Old September 4, 2017, 02:51 AM   #9
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Savage magazines are kind of their weak point, the external magazines are just marginal and their blind (internal) magazines are really bad.
I recall there is/was an aftermarket magazine(s) for Savage rifles. I haven't looked in a while, however.

Savage's Savage 10FCP-SR caught my attention but I read they made changes to the magazines that were not good.

I didn't know Savage's blind mags were bad. Reviews I read on the Savage Hog Hunter pointed to a good rifle for the money.
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Old September 4, 2017, 03:14 AM   #10
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Oh I am sure it is, I don't regret my Savage rifles at all just saying their magazine is my second least favorite feature right behind their craptastical polymer stock. Now Savage does offer rifles with upgraded stocks too but the one that comes on their base 110 rifles is pretty bad. Savages are the most easy to customize rifles out there though you don't even need a gunsmith to re barrel them thanks to their barrel nut design, a concept that everybody else is stealing from Savage now.
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Old September 4, 2017, 09:11 AM   #11
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I have no knowledge of the Browning, I do of the Savage.

What caliber are we talking about?

Savage is some and some, though all mine are Savage as I can and have modified each one.

First the Savage action is up there with solid or more so than anyone. Its an old design and its heavy, solid, good bolt and lock up. Equal to the best in that regard.

Magazines and feed have been an issue, I don't care, but I shoot single shot off the bench anyway. It is a factor, may require a bit of work.

You can't beat the acu trigger short of a $100+ after market trigger.

Savage Varmint types get you two big advantage, the heavy Varmint barrel and the Varmint version of the acu trigger that goes down to 1.5 lb set.

The best bargain out there is Cabell Only Savage 12FV that is often on sale for as low as $300 (Cabella's has rebates, Savage has them and you can combine them at times) .

I suspect a Browning will last several life times, if you want to change things, then the Savage is vastly better and it will last as long.

My most modified one has a 7.5 Swiss Loather Walther barrel, was converted bottom bolt release to top bolt release and sits in a Boyd's Thumb hole blind mag hole stock (with a filter block for a true single shot)
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Old September 4, 2017, 09:35 AM   #12
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I don't know much about the browning.

Savage claim to fame is how they are assembled/engineered to save money and it's why they were always a budget option.

What that means to the end consumer is that they are truly the LEGO of the rifle world. If something ever does break or if you want to swap a part it is all very straight forward.
Furthermore, savage parts are readily available so you can stock a couple of GOOD spare extractors ( like from sss), ejector spring, or even a bolt head which is held in place with a pin.

If the barrel burns up you can screw on a new one with a vice, wrench, and go/no go gauge.

If you somehow bent or broke the bolt handle you can simply screw on a new one with an Allen wrench. Try that with a 700
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Old September 4, 2017, 10:19 AM   #13
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I've only used Savage 11's in .308 and .223 and they are extremely accurate but I've also heard great things about Browning. I don't think you can go wrong with either. I can say that I've used Tula steel ammo 165 grain SP in my .308 and the accuracy was not as good as the American ammo but dang that stuff is cheap to buy!
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Old September 4, 2017, 11:42 AM   #14
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There is absolutely nothing wrong with Savage magazines. Their blind magazines, like the ones from every other manufacturer are as rugged and foolproof as it gets.

I'm not crazy about Savage rifles, there are some design features that I simply prefer on other brands. But there is no denying they shoot well, are reasonably priced and as rugged as any other Push Feed rifle.

A Controlled round feed bolt rifle has an edge when abused or filthy. But under "normal" use all of the bolt guns are pretty reliable.
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Old September 4, 2017, 11:52 AM   #15
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Steel-cased ammo is low end stuff that isn't reloadable. Re-think using it.
Otherwise, a commercial hunting rifle is a commercial hunting rifle. Browning has been marketing on the name for years. Savage rifles are well known for being the most accurate out of the box.
An A-Bolt III runs $500 at Bass Pro with no sights. A Savage 11 Package runs $50 more with a Nikon scope. Depends on the actual model of 11. Toss a coin, but the Browning will end up being more when you scope it.
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Old September 4, 2017, 03:35 PM   #16
bricz75
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Originally Posted by zipspyder View Post
I've only used Savage 11's in .308 and .223 and they are extremely accurate but I've also heard great things about Browning. I don't think you can go wrong with either. I can say that I've used Tula steel ammo 165 grain SP in my .308 and the accuracy was not as good as the American ammo but dang that stuff is cheap to buy!
And the results are great in ballistic gel. Ready to go hunting with.

Any idea in the difference of 100 yard groups between the Tula and American ammo you've used?
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Old September 4, 2017, 03:37 PM   #17
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What caliber are we talking about?
.308
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Old September 4, 2017, 04:01 PM   #18
zipspyder
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@bricz75

And the results are great in ballistic gel. Ready to go hunting with.

Any idea in the difference of 100 yard groups between the Tula and American ammo you've used?
For hunting purposes I think you will be satisfied with Tula and 100 yard groups. If I remember correctly they also had an average chronograph fps spread that was a little wider than US ammo on average. At least they did on mine. The only weird thing I've seen out of a Tula vs US ammo is a flier every once in a while that makes you do a double take. I would not hesitate to use them for hunting if my gun shot them well.
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Old September 5, 2017, 03:13 AM   #19
bricz75
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The only weird thing I've seen out of a Tula vs US ammo is a flier every once in a while that makes you do a double take. I would not hesitate to use them for hunting if my gun shot them well.
I saw a Youtube video of a fellow using a measuring device to find which Tula rounds will be fliers. He puts those aside for plinking/practice and keeps the good ones for when accuracy is paramount.
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Old September 5, 2017, 10:13 AM   #20
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Pretty hard to beat the $319 on the Cabella only 12FV Savage.

A bit heavy for hunting.


The Cabella 10T might work.

I don't know if that is on rebate right now.
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Old September 5, 2017, 11:27 PM   #21
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I can't offer anything about today's rifles, but here's some advice from the distant past. I had a savage 110CL back in the early 80s. Didn't even get through a single box of ammo, and a chip broke out of the extractor. Murphy at work.

Not wanting to put up with the hassle of sending the rifle back, I just wanted a replacement extractor. In those days, Savage parts weren't "everywhere" and it took the gunsmith two months to get one, so I could put it in!

I hear that's not the case today, and parts are "everywhere". Ok, but Murphy is still on the job, and its not impossible that if/when you do need one, THAT part will be "out of stock", everywhere.

If you get the Savage, order a couple spare extractors, and stick one under the buttplate, so its there if you have a failure in the field. Put the other in a WELL MARKED envelope/baggie, and tuck it in your spare parts/tool kit. Odds are good that if you do that, you will never need it. But, if you don't?

Murphy is still on the job, you know...

Now, as to...
Quote:
including running steel-cased ammo through it.
It's simple. If you shoot crap ammo in a budget rifle, you have crap. If you shoot crap ammo in a high dollar match gun, you still have crap, but the rifle looks better...

Not saying all steel cased ammo is crap, and there is crap brass case ammo too. The point is, if you shoot the cheapest stuff (and I admit there is a time for it in recreational shooting) expect the cheapest results. If you get some that does shoot well, & accurately, be happy Murphy is looking the other way, and buy a bunch more of it.

I'm a reloader, and I don't shoot steel, or berdan primed ammo by choice, but that's just me....
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Old September 6, 2017, 09:55 AM   #22
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I saw a Youtube video of a fellow using a measuring device to find which Tula rounds will be fliers. He puts those aside for plinking/practice and keeps the good ones for when accuracy is paramount.
On the 6.5Grendel forum, some shooters had measured a number of Wolf steel cased bullets at .002 too slim for 6.5 mm. The flyers are inevitable with that level of quality control.
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Old September 6, 2017, 01:23 PM   #23
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bricz75,

I have 4 Savages including a 11 VT in .22-250. Two others are model 10s in .308, (a FP with hidden magazine and a FCP-K with a removable mag) and one is a 12 Long Range Precision model in 6.5 mm Creedmoor. All have accu-triggers that were easily adjusted to my preferred pull weight. The 10 FCP-K and the 11 VT have accu-stocks. The 10 FP and the 12 LRP don't.

I got the model 11 VT on sale at Dick's for a price that I couldn't pass up. It is a light hunting rifle but has a bull barrel and has a plastic mag that works fine for the 200 rounds through it so far. I prefer the steel mags in the FCP-K and 12 LRP better - they feel more sturdy but I haven't experienced a problem with the plastic mag on the model 11. Other than that the model 11 is a very accurate rifle, with average group sizes with its favorite bullets in hand loads just slightly larger than the average group sizes from the precision 12 LRP. However, that is a bit misleading since I have only shot loads with target bullets that have worked best in my other .22-250, a Remington 700 so I haven't tried a wide variety of bullet weights in it, like I have in the 12 LRP.

My two Savage 308s are well used.
The 10 FP is my oldest Savage and has a hidden mag. It has over 9,500 rounds through it (I had Savage replace the original barrel with a target barrel at 6,500 rounds).
The hidden mag on the 10 FP has never had a failure to feed so I would question the statements about the Savage hidden mags being unreliable. The only thing that I don't like is that there is no opening mag floor on the Savage hidden mag that can be used to unload the hidden mag. Each round has to be extracted by the bolt, although Savage has a 3 position safety that allows the bolt to be operated in the middle position with the trigger safety still on to make extraction safe.

The 10 FP is a very accurate rifle with all the groups shot with all bullet weights and loads averaging under 0.36 with the new barrel. It is most accurate with bullets from 150 to 168 grains. With the 10 FP, I already had the loads it should like and the new barrel seemed to like the loads the old barrel liked, but just shot them more accurately.

The 10 FCP-K has the same barrel as the 10 FP new barrel but the 10 FCP-K has a muzzle brake. It has over 3000 rounds through it and the removable mag works fine. It also has never had a failure to feed. It is also very accurate and averages just at 0.39 with all the groups shot to date. Part of the difference in average accuracy versus the 10 FP is that I shot a lot of rounds through the 10 FCP-K experimenting with powders and bullet weights from 150 to 200 grains and that tended to increase the average. The 10 FCP-K likes heavier bullets than the FP and is most accurate with bullets from 168 to 175 grains and even shoots 195 and 200 grain bullets very accurately.

The 12 LRP is a new rifle and has a precision trigger and a standard steel Savage removable mag. No problems with it at all in over 600 rounds.
The 12 LRP is scary accurate and its average with all its groups to date is 0.10 smaller than the 10 FP with the new barrel.

The model 11 hasn't been used all that much because I also have a Remington 700 in .22-250. So far, the Savage model 11 VT .22-250 outshoots the Remington 700 by quite a margin.

I hope this helps you make your decision.
I would second the recommendations that you handle both rifles before you decide. They should both be good hunting, plinking rifles.

Personally, I avoid steel case ammo.
I have never shot steel case ammos that shoot accurately, not because of the steel cases, per se, but because they use bulk bullets and questionable powders. I have pulled bullets from some of the bargain steel case ammo and I was hard pressed to conclude that they were loaded with any powder I could recognize. Some on this forum have reported similar experiences.

Also many steel case ammos, at least in .223 and .30 caliber, use steel core bullets and our range won't allow them. Most of the steel case ammo vendors don't identify the core material so you have to use a magnet on the bullets to find out that they have steel cores. On the Labor Day weekend, the range officer checked steel case ammo that a shooter brought to shoot in his AK and found that it was steel core. Fortunately, the shooter brought another caliber rifle to shoot or else he would have gone home without firing a round.
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Old September 11, 2017, 01:43 AM   #24
bricz75
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@Rimfire5: Thank you.
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Old September 11, 2017, 04:20 PM   #25
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I don't usually use my magazines as I bench rest shoot.

I did load up the 111 last week.

Getting the rounds into it was annoying, maybe with separate scope mounts it would have been easier.

Feed was ok, had to be sure to really bring the bolt all the way back to pik up the next round. That could be an issue with the need for a follow up shot.

I think my brother has a 6.5 and its iffy with round feeds.

Probably not a deal breaker. Random reports of that. Feed lip adjustment seems to fix.
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