Does your Hornady Lock and Load do this?

[national86]

I have a Hornady Lock and Load AP, I have been trying to size some 308 win brass (PPU, Winchester & Remington). Once I have the die set, some of the brass will fit fine in the Lyman gauge and some will not. I have to turn the sizing die down a bit to get them to fit in the gauge. When I do this I have alot of cam over. I did try to size the brass in a friends Hornady Classic press and it size just fine and just one time though the die. There is a lot of play when I raise the ram on the AP, I'm able to move the handle from left to right and the sub plate move quite a bit. Also there is about a 1/8 inch space between frame and the link & 1/8 inch between toggle and link on right side. So I was wondering it this is why I having problems sizing the brass. If anyone that has the same press can check to see if there press has the same amount of play.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bi6t...ature=youtu.be

[Reloader270]

Contact Hornady and ask them. There is perhaps a spacer or something missing. On the other hand if the shell plate index properly, the dies would center the cases anyhow. If there is too much play on the shell plate it could result in cases mis-aligning with the dies. This would cause problems.

[catgunguy]

Is all your brass the same weight or have they all been shot the same number of times? Some maybe harder than others.

[Kimber84]

Mine does the exact same thing. Never had any sizing issues though, I've only reloaded .223 on mine.

I'm about to part with it though, the priming system is constantly getting debris buildup from the depriming station. After awhile it will all but quit working and start snapping out of the spring retainer on the feed tube. I'm just not all that pressed with the overall quality and I wish I would have just bought a Dillon to begin with. Any small amount of powder as well will jam the priming system, occasionally something won't cycle right and a piece of powder will pop out of a shell. Somehow it always finds the primer slide and locks the whole device up. Seems like if Hornady would undercut where the nose of the slide is all the way through the base plate it would allow debris to fall out

[cryogenic419]

Are the cases all the same brand, number of firings, etc? Meaning you notice that only the Remington brass has this issue? or is it with all brass? I have heard of this issue once before and it was because of using mixed brand brass fired from various guns, and there was some question as to whether it truly was once fired brass. Once cases were sorted by headstamp, all cases with same headstamp resized the same, it was when going to different headstamp that the issue reappeared. This is where I would start to see if the issue can't be pinpointed.

Buildup of lube within the sizing die? Possible but not as likely.

I have this press and it does have the side to side shimmy but have not had issues with sizing or anything else.

If you think perhaps a part may be missing pull up the manual and look at the exploded parts drawing to make sure.

[F. Guffey]

Many years ago I collected old airplane propellers. Finding someone that had first hand information was not easy to find. I was luck on one propeller, the old pilot did not describe the plane as a plane, he described it as a bunch of parts flying in loose formation. It seemed the old plane needed air over the wings to take up all the slack.

I know of presses that can scare reloaders because the press is being operated without a load. Take my Rock Chuckers, for example, my Rock Chuckers straighten up and fly right once under a load.

F. Guffey

[PA-Joe]

One thing you should be aware of is that with the progress shellplate you need a case in all five stations. This helps to stabilize the shellplate and keep is from flexing.

[national86]

I reload all 308 brass with the same head stamp, then after a day at the range come home clean, size and trim the brass for the next trip. I have Remington, Winchester and PPU brass. Most of REM and WIN will fit flush in the gauge, the PPU will have more that don't sit flush. I did e-mail hornady about this and they responded with this.... " I would say with this variety of cases and weapons they are being fired from you may be looking at a brass thickness or carbon in the necks of the cases causing the expander to pull the necks out when it is being drawn out of the case " I might have to call and talk to someone about the play in the press and the sizing problem.

Thank you guys for all your help, this is a great forum

[THEWELSHM]

call Hornady they will set you on the right path... Great presses and service.

thewelshm

[schmellba99]

You need to get on the horn with Hornady - there should be zero play like you have in your video. Something is not right, and they will certainly help you figure it out.

To the poster with the issues on the primer system - if you don't periodically clean your equipment, it doesn't matter if it is blue, red or green - there will be issues. Also make sure you have the replacement priming ram for the LnL; it is a better design than the original and eliminates a lot of problems. But you have to clean it periodically - and that takes all of 10 seconds or so.

[Kimber84]

Originally Posted by schmellba99

You need to get on the horn with Hornady - there should be zero play like you have in your video. Something is not right, and they will certainly help you figure it out.



To the poster with the issues on the primer system - if you don't periodically clean your equipment, it doesn't matter if it is blue, red or green - there will be issues. Also make sure you have the replacement priming ram for the LnL; it is a better design than the original and eliminates a lot of problems. But you have to clean it periodically - and that takes all of 10 seconds or so.

Sorry, I don't need to be lectured on cleaning my presses. I take awfully good care of them, the design could simply be revised to clear up a glaring issue. All it takes is a flake of powder or residue from a primer and instantly it jumps out. Annoying is an understatement.

[schmellba99]

Didn't mean to imply a lecture, don't get your panties in a bunch.

I too have an LNL, yet don't have the problems you seem to have - don't get me wrong, the priming system took a bit for me to really figure out and I did make a couple of tweaks, but it takes considerably more than a single grain of powder to cause an issue. If yours does, you have something else going on.

[bfoosh006]

This post at AR15.com might be your answer....

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/41...ive_press.html

[tobnpr]

Mine does the exact same thing.

As does mine. It is not a "problem".

Consider what you're doing- exerting leverage with a foot-long handle, trying to get "play" on a part that extends about six inches or so under the base.
Not hard to do- and impossible IMO to prevent when you're dealing with moving parts like this.

It has no effect on proper loading- the only thing that matters is the correct timing of the pawls, on the upstroke- and the downstroke to advance the shellplate to the position where it is properly lined up with the next station.

As far as the hard cam-over, that, too- is fairly typical and most all of the calibers I load for require a fairly hard cam-over to take the slack out of the press and get the correct shoulder bump.

Keep in mind, dies are intentionally made by the manufacturer to prevent the possibility of over-sizing and causing too much headspace and a possible "boom" (read- lawsuit). It's not uncommon for a tight-chambered rifle to need to grind a bit off the bottom of the sizing die- and Hornady will happily do this for you if you send them the die.

[F. Guffey]

I have no ideal how reloaders do it. All of my dies have limiters built into the die, same for the shell holder. There is a limit to the ability my dies have when returning a case to minimum length or 'as they say' return the case to full length sized. Once my shell holder contacts the bottom of the die 'that is it', I could extend the handle an additional foot or two, all I am going to get from my effort is sparks flying.

Then we move to progressive presses and cam over. I know, it sounds impressive, it is thought a reloader must throw in three or four 'cam over' before someone will take them seriously. SERIOUSLY?

F. Guffey

[THEWELSHM]

thanks for post #13 very informative.. The timing on these presses is critical too.

Watch this one as well,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXms1-ZsPnU

thewelshm

[tobnpr]

Once my shell holder contacts the bottom of the die 'that is it', I could extend the handle an additional foot or two, all I am going to get from my effort is sparks flying.

A single stage press- to which it seems you are comparing the LNL AP- is a completely different animal, Mr. Guffey.

In fact, the shellplate on my LNL AP has a very small amount of "play"- a gap the exists at the bottom due to the little balls that ride into the detents in the shellplate. With force applied- I can "rock it", ever so slightly.

Just "making contact" does not remove this slop- if you don't "cam over hard", then you're simply pushing both the die and the shellplate lower in unison- rather than closing those last thousandths by bottoming out the shellplate completely and allowing the sizing die to complete it's full stroke.

[F. Guffey]

A single stage press- to which it seems you are comparing the LNL AP- is a completely different animal, Mr. Guffey.

Tobnpr, are you for real I have 5 progressive presses, I take the slack out by raising the ram with a case in the shell plate. I am the one that measure the deck height of each position, remember, when reloading on a progressive press minimum difference in length between the case and chamber is not my number one priority. I am talking from the shoulder to the case head and chamber shoulder to the bolt face.

Then there is that problem created when the case is 'tuffer' than the press and has more resistance to sizing than the press can overcome.

I noticed you went to 'cam over'.

F. Guffey

[F. Guffey]

Just "making contact" does not remove this slop- if you don't "cam over hard", then you're simply pushing both the die and the shellplate lower in unison- rather than closing those last thousandths by bottoming out the shellplate completely and allowing the sizing die to complete it's full stroke.

I am the only reloader that knows when the case whips the press, I am the only one that uses a feeler gage to determine 'by how much'. Everyone else assumes.

rather than closing those last thousandths by bottoming out the shellplate completely and allowing the sizing die to complete it's full stroke

The ram is doing the stroke, the shell plate sits on top and is there for the ride. If my ram has measurable 'cam over' I am using the wrong press, but first, I check. It is another one of those lonely places to be as in 'the only one that checks'. If my press has cam over I can measure the amount of cam over in thousandths.

I have lock-outs on two of my presses. Something like an automatic transmission clutch system. RCBS shell them but, I do not expect a run on parts, after all reloaders have gotten to be reloaders without knowing they exist.

F. Guffey